1 01:07 < starshine> hrmmmm bug.
   2 01:07 < starshine> smileys are declared in sitewide config but kept stored as extra copies per theme.
   3 01:08 < starshine> it should either belong to the theme and be overridable there, or it should be stored in one place a'la underlay
   4 01:16 < xorAxAx> yep
   5 01:19 < starshine> or both...
   6 01:19 < starshine> sitewide "default" smileys but overridable by theme
   7 01:19 < starshine> where the themes that come with it wouldn't probably bother
   8 01:20 < starshine> that is, "default" smileys would be in ThemeBase
   9 01:22 < starshine> possibly, the themese could contain a subdir for smileys, which for the most of them is a symlink to a shared batch, but which a themer could replace with a real dir.
  10 01:23 < starshine> but putting them in ThemeBase would change how they're called from other things wouldn't it... how many things use smileys ?
  11 01:27 < starshine> weird, how does Page.pyc mention smileys when Page.py doesn't ?
  12 01:29 < xorAxAx> starshine: maybe its old?
  13 01:30 < starshine> I was wondering that
  14 01:30 < starshine> except that I always move the moin code dir before a recompile
  15 01:30 < starshine> s/compile/install/
  16 01:31 < xorAxAx> just delete it
  17 01:31 < xorAxAx> it will be recreated
  18 01:31 < xorAxAx> if permissions allow that
  19 01:34 < starshine> all the pyc are basically the same timestamp.
  20 01:34 < ThomasWaldmann> moin
  21 01:34 < starshine> moin TW
  22 01:35 < ThomasWaldmann> starshine: symlinks are no option for win32
  23 01:35 < starshine> would it be hard to have wikiparser access smileys if they were in the theme?
  24 01:36 < starshine> (share/moin/htdocs)/smileys/ maybe ?
  25 01:39 < ThomasWaldmann> smileys ARE in the theme
  26 01:40 < starshine> unless they've moved between 707 and 726 they aren't
  27 01:40 < starshine> they're in config.py
  28 01:40  * ThomasWaldmann meant the icon files
  29 01:41 < starshine> got the icon files settled
  30 01:42 < ThomasWaldmann> hmm, before we change anything there, maybe we should make a wiki page about it, containing:
  31 01:42 < starshine> I can declare the smileys but I'd have to figure out how to "undeclare" them back to default when people change back to a base theme :/
  32 01:42 < ThomasWaldmann> a) what problem do we try to solve
  33 01:42 < ThomasWaldmann> b) a plan for solving
  34 01:42 < starshine>  I was checking bugs to see if something like it was already there..
  35 01:43 < ThomasWaldmann> the plan should include some thoughts about caching
  36 01:43 < starshine> yeah /wiki/smileys/ as shared dir would be good for that
  37 01:44 < ThomasWaldmann> and maybe a distinction between content and frame stuff
  38 01:45 < starshine> frame?
  39 01:45 < ThomasWaldmann> navibar e.g.
  40 01:45 < starshine> oh, header footer type stuff.
  41 01:46 < starshine> the glitz as I put it.
  42 01:46 < ThomasWaldmann> if we have a good plan in the wiki, we can start to change :)
  43 01:46 < xorAxAx> ntfs supports symlinks, but just for directories .)
  44 01:46 < starshine> it's more a design issue than a bug
  45 01:46 < starshine> xorAxAx: that'd be sufficient but, I think we wanna support plain mswin too
  46 01:47 < xorAxAx> starshine: why is that sufficient?
  47 01:48 < starshine> xorAxAx: if smileys all live in one directory under "their theme" but it is a symlink to the place where they are shared, it at least saves storage
  48 01:48 < xorAxAx> why do they have to live there?
  49 01:49 < xorAxAx> you will have problems with most apaches
  50 01:49 < xorAxAx> they dont follow symlinks
  51 01:49 < starshine> hrmm
  52 01:49 < starshine> declare as ../smileys/frown.png ?
  53 01:50 < starshine> sucks for cahcing, urls look like /wiki/modern/../smileys/frown.png and /wiki/classic/../smileys/frown.png ..
  54 01:53  * starshine can't even decide what to call the page to chase this idea round..
  55 01:54 < ThomasWaldmann> we dont use symlinks
  56 01:54 < starshine> forget symlinks then
  57 01:54 < ThomasWaldmann> IconRefactoring
  58 01:54 < lydon> Options FollowSymLinks
  59 01:55 < ThomasWaldmann> and we dont need to save icon storage space
  60 01:55 < starshine> lydon: as opposed FollowSymlinksIfOwnerMatch ?
  61 01:55 < starshine> SmileysShouldBeThemable
  62 01:55 < lydon> IfOnwerMatch is more secure
  63 01:56 < ThomasWaldmann> that plan should definitely indicate what's the problem we try to solve.
  64 01:56 < starshine> presently they're stored inside the theme which implies that they are, but in practice they're not unless you zap the smileys in all themes at the same time.
  65 01:56 < lydon> but if the apache don't follows symlinks there is an easy solution if copying needs to much space (hardly true for icons)
  66 01:56 < lydon> hardlinks
  67 01:56 < ThomasWaldmann> the current system is a quite simple one, if we make it more complicated and make all theme authors redesign their stuff (in case it is no compatible), we need good reasons
  68 01:56 < starshine> well there are the people who are eager to shave off languages for space considerations.
  69 01:57  * lydon does so
  70 01:57 < starshine> I only want to be able to override smileys, not make everything have to hop about them
  71 01:57 < ThomasWaldmann> no, most are doing that to reduce page count, not storage
  72 01:57 < starshine> right *now* if I change them I have to change them all :(
  73 01:57 < ThomasWaldmann> (excluding someone with a 5000 files quota)
  74 01:58 < ThomasWaldmann> (which is insane for a wiki anyway)
  75 01:58 < starshine> yeah what's the 4999th page maker supposed to get, a medal for breaking the wiki?
  76 01:59 < xorAxAx> starshine: we need more than one file per page
  77 01:59 < ThomasWaldmann> it will be rather the make of the 100th page
  78 01:59 < starshine> .o( it really dies a lot earlier :)
  79 01:59 < starshine> ok we're all on the same page about *that* 
  80 02:00 < ThomasWaldmann> make it a page or it will be lost here....
  81 02:00 < ThomasWaldmann> bbl