MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2007-05-31

2007-05-31T00:47:57  <neagulm> good night
2007-05-31T01:52:11  <zenhase> re
2007-05-31T01:52:44  * zenhase feels like he moved an entire household
2007-05-31T01:52:51  <zenhase> household?
2007-05-31T01:53:12  <zenhase> ah it's a valid word
2007-05-31T01:54:56  <grzywacz> re?
2007-05-31T01:59:13  <zenhase> we (entropia) were doing the first part of the GPN6 setup today
2007-05-31T01:59:59  <zenhase> moving sofas from our club rooms to the university of applied sciences
2007-05-31T02:00:37  <zenhase> decorating the level of the building we got for the weekend
2007-05-31T02:03:27  * zenhase thinks he isn't even able to write proper english anymore
2007-05-31T02:06:57  <grzywacz> Nah, it's fine. ;-)
2007-05-31T02:07:28  <zenhase> dunno ... it feels kind of clumsy to me right now
2007-05-31T08:16:00  <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2007-05-31T11:35:34  <CIA-25> moin: Alexander Schremmer <alex AT alexanderweb DOT de> * 2092:11df5d2ecd6c 1.6/MoinMoin/formatter/text_docbook.py: Fix error message in the docbook formatter, should be ported to 1.7.
2007-05-31T11:45:30  <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: feel free to port it :)
2007-05-31T11:45:45  <xorAxAx> later :)
2007-05-31T11:46:28  <ThomasWaldmann> oops
2007-05-31T11:46:34  <xorAxAx> hmm?
2007-05-31T11:46:45  * ThomasWaldmann read your changeset X)
2007-05-31T11:47:09  <xorAxAx> hehe
2007-05-31T11:49:07  <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: btw, did you hear anything from the 2007 fedora student who should work on moin stuff?
2007-05-31T11:49:19  <xorAxAx> no
2007-05-31T11:49:37  <xorAxAx> seems like the mentor doesnt really like collaboration
2007-05-31T11:50:19  <vpv> ThomasWaldmann: I'm here, but our project hasn't yet started. It will start tomorrow, I'll do a wiki page for Fedora Wiki and Moin Wiki about it tonight.
2007-05-31T11:50:39  <xorAxAx> hehe
2007-05-31T11:50:43  <ThomasWaldmann> ah, hi vpv :)
2007-05-31T11:51:44  <vpv> I had a meeting with Karsten Wade yesterday, he does want me to work closely with you so that we could prevent the not-getting-things-merged situation that happend for Mikko's code.
2007-05-31T11:52:45  <ThomasWaldmann> yeah, maybe we can even prevent the "student vanishes after soc" :))
2007-05-31T11:53:40  <ThomasWaldmann> vpv: does "not yet started" means that there are no detailed plans yet?
2007-05-31T11:54:36  <vpv> Well there are some plans, I had to present a basic project plan to the sponsoring organization in March already
2007-05-31T11:55:05  <vpv> but the technical details are still a bit open...
2007-05-31T11:57:01  <ThomasWaldmann> url?
2007-05-31T11:58:02  <vpv> http://www.coss.fi/web/coss/developers/summercode/2007 and man/info editor, that's about all there is in English so far
2007-05-31T12:00:54  <ThomasWaldmann> ok, I already read that. I suggest you make a homepage and soc2007 page on mm site and dump ideas about implementation there
2007-05-31T12:01:39  <ThomasWaldmann> (and also about docs :)
2007-05-31T12:02:54  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, it is great you do that task, I wanted to have something like that for linuxwiki.org (de) some years ago :)
2007-05-31T12:03:06  <vpv> ok, I'll do that :)
2007-05-31T12:06:28  <vpv> I'm a bit busy with other things right now, but just to mention, we had a couple of points we discussed yesterday: 1) 1.5 or 1.6, all your GSoC students use 1.6, right? So that might be the best option for my project too. 2) Internal storage format. Karsten suggested storing the man pages as regular txt at least in the beginning and then make Bugzilla reports about the edits done in the wiki. Then maybe later on in the summer add something more automatic.
2007-05-31T12:07:44  <vpv> But these things are something that can/should be discussed on Moin wiki too once I have that page. Now I have to go afk for a while.
2007-05-31T12:09:55  <xorAxAx> vpv: no, students use 1.7
2007-05-31T12:10:02  <xorAxAx> 1.6 is currently becoming the stable branch
2007-05-31T12:13:23  <neagulm> dreimark, did you see the changes that i pushed yesterday ?
2007-05-31T12:24:07  <ThomasWaldmann> neagulm: query
2007-05-31T12:34:32  <ThomasWaldmann> neagulm: still there?
2007-05-31T12:34:58  <neagulm> ThomasWaldmann, yes
2007-05-31T12:36:18  <ThomasWaldmann> did you get my query?
2007-05-31T12:37:55  <neagulm> ThomasWaldmann, "ThomasWaldmann> neagulm: query"
2007-05-31T12:37:57  <neagulm> ThomasWaldmann, ?
2007-05-31T12:38:29  <ThomasWaldmann> an irc query is a private conversation usually in some separate window
2007-05-31T12:38:43  <neagulm> ThomasWaldmann, I did't see it
2007-05-31T12:38:54  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe it does not work, if you are not registered with nickserv
2007-05-31T12:39:21  <ThomasWaldmann>  /msg nickserv help
2007-05-31T12:47:38  <ThomasWaldmann> zenhase: do you have changes in your local repo?
2007-05-31T12:48:35  <ThomasWaldmann> if yes, don't forget to push them at least once a day
2007-05-31T13:01:46  <ThomasWaldmann> lanius: \ No newline at end of file
2007-05-31T13:06:59  <ThomasWaldmann> lanius: don't commit your edit-log
2007-05-31T13:07:15  <ThomasWaldmann> lanius: nor your test user accounts
2007-05-31T13:10:22  <ThomasWaldmann> if you need them for your tests, maybe the test setup should create the users in the test wiki
2007-05-31T13:21:38  <ThomasWaldmann> bbl
2007-05-31T13:36:10  <dreimark> neagulm: I peeked yesterday a bit and read more now. - please revert edit-log for next push
2007-05-31T13:41:56  <dreimark> neagulm: underlay pages they normally sytempages and well known they should not show This page might be SPAM. If you think the system is wrong please report this page as  Not Spam
2007-05-31T13:44:19  <neagulm> dreimark, i will change this today... Currently I am working to get eclipse to be PEP8 compliant....
2007-05-31T13:45:17  <dreimark> neagulm: share some info on that too, sometimes I check the code by vi too
2007-05-31T13:46:42  <dreimark> neagulm: if I choose not Spam the sentence does not change for a page
2007-05-31T13:47:01  <neagulm> dreimark, I hope that next week the PoC will become usable on a production wiki but I don't know where to do some beta-testing
2007-05-31T13:47:45  <neagulm> dreimark, This is because currently I don't check if the page was already reported as spam, i let SB do the work
2007-05-31T13:48:05  <neagulm> dreimark, This will be fixed today
2007-05-31T13:48:35  <dreimark> neagulm: you can use wikisync with t.www.de to get some pages
2007-05-31T13:50:26  <dreimark> neagulm: and currently the navibar action is replaced to the page name so I have not seen that I have to klick there
2007-05-31T13:51:57  <dreimark> neagulm: the Clear link is missing in the message bar too
2007-05-31T13:52:59  <dreimark> Report as Spam is set in navibar to e.g. StartSeite
2007-05-31T13:54:38  <neagulm> dreimark, related to the "CLear Link" issue: I use widget.Dialog for the message.
2007-05-31T13:55:35  <neagulm> dreimark, I think that the user should report the page as HAM if the SB is wrong... else it should leave the message alone.
2007-05-31T13:56:45  <dreimark> ok
2007-05-31T13:57:52  <dreimark> currently UI have only one page set as spam page and one page as ham page
2007-05-31T13:58:03  <dreimark> I
2007-05-31T13:58:52  <dreimark> later on this action has to use POST and not GET otherwise a reload toggle too
2007-05-31T14:07:41  <neagulm> dreimark, i have fixed the navibar page link issue
2007-05-31T14:09:22  <neagulm> dreimark, i have pushed the fix
2007-05-31T14:12:05  <neagulm> dreimark, I will setup a public test wiki, maybe we could make it a spam honeypot :)
2007-05-31T14:30:03  <dreimark> neagulm: before that pull the changes from the 1.7 branch
2007-05-31T14:30:52  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: neagulm: Thomas do you like to setup that testwiki?
2007-05-31T14:38:18  <ThomasWaldmann> if you can wait some days...
2007-05-31T14:39:02  <dreimark> neagulm: see MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2007-05-28
2007-05-31T14:44:06  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, a new wiki won't get much spam
2007-05-31T14:44:54  <ThomasWaldmann> but you can copy as much spam from old revisions of mm site as you like :))
2007-05-31T14:47:49  <lanius> hola
2007-05-31T14:48:55  <lanius> currently in my design the StorageBackend has set_metadata(name, revno, key, value) that means for every changed metadata key it has to write the complete file, any idea how to fix that
2007-05-31T14:51:05  <xorAxAx> lanius: set_metadata(name, revno, key_value_dict)
2007-05-31T14:52:07  <lanius> but this is inefficient for databases
2007-05-31T14:52:40  <lanius> since with databases you can easily change simple values
2007-05-31T14:52:50  <lanius> s/simple/single/
2007-05-31T14:52:51  <xorAxAx> lanius: ?
2007-05-31T14:53:00  <xorAxAx> lanius: the db storage layer iterates over the dict
2007-05-31T14:53:16  <xorAxAx> it can choose the internal strategy
2007-05-31T14:53:21  <lanius> and has to set every key value pair, also when only one changed
2007-05-31T14:53:25  <xorAxAx> the upper layers should create those dict-bundles, though
2007-05-31T14:53:36  <xorAxAx> lanius: you only supply the ones you want to see set
2007-05-31T14:53:42  <xorAxAx> not all
2007-05-31T14:53:49  <lanius> and what if you delete some
2007-05-31T14:53:59  <xorAxAx> well, how did you delete them before?
2007-05-31T14:54:04  <lanius> i didn't ;)
2007-05-31T14:54:10  <lanius> ah well
2007-05-31T14:54:27  <lanius> remove_metadata(name, revno, key) which is again inefficient for filesystem
2007-05-31T14:55:10  <xorAxAx> remove_metadata(name, revno, key_list
2007-05-31T14:55:33  <lanius> then you still can't set and change metadata in one write process, but you need two
2007-05-31T14:55:39  <lanius> set and remove
2007-05-31T14:55:48  <xorAxAx> yes, exactly 2
2007-05-31T14:55:51  <xorAxAx> <= 2
2007-05-31T14:55:56  <xorAxAx> which is ok
2007-05-31T14:55:58  <lanius> ok
2007-05-31T14:57:20  <lanius> and two read processes
2007-05-31T14:57:39  <xorAxAx> no
2007-05-31T14:57:55  <xorAxAx> the transactional stuff on the layer above would issue one read at the beginning
2007-05-31T14:58:04  <xorAxAx> where does the second read come from?
2007-05-31T14:58:20  <lanius> when you set keys you first have to read the file, set the keys, ten save them
2007-05-31T14:58:37  <xorAxAx> indeed
2007-05-31T14:59:14  <lanius> you can't cache the read because some other process may have changed something
2007-05-31T14:59:43  <xorAxAx> well, it cant, because of the locks from the layer above
2007-05-31T15:01:07  <lanius> hmm
2007-05-31T15:02:16  <xorAxAx> (move locking down to avoid the reads?)
2007-05-31T18:18:03  <dreimark> bbl
2007-05-31T18:51:39  <grzywacz> moin
2007-05-31T19:39:30  <zenhase> evening
2007-05-31T19:39:40  <zenhase> ThomasWaldmann: can do
2007-05-31T19:40:03  <zenhase> but it's just a little bit right now
2007-05-31T20:09:36  <ThomasWaldmann> re
2007-05-31T20:13:02  <ThomasWaldmann> zenhase: you dont need to work every day on your soc project, but if there is no commit, that day will not count as "work day".
2007-05-31T20:13:21  <zenhase> ThomasWaldmann: ok
2007-05-31T20:13:27  <zenhase> hmm .. strange
2007-05-31T20:13:37  <zenhase> hg asks me for a password
2007-05-31T20:14:00  <zenhase> but ssh-agent is running with my key added
2007-05-31T20:14:03  <ThomasWaldmann> and if there are too much free days compared to work days, it might get problematic, esp. if you run out of time at the end
2007-05-31T20:15:06  <ThomasWaldmann> you use hg@hg.thinkmo.de?
2007-05-31T20:15:45  <zenhase>  % cat .hg/hgrc | grep push
2007-05-31T20:15:45  <zenhase> default-push = ssh://hg.thinkmo.de/moin/1.7-template-fkrupicka
2007-05-31T20:15:54  <zenhase> add hg@ in front?
2007-05-31T20:16:44  <ThomasWaldmann> yes
2007-05-31T20:17:15  <xorAxAx> well, you might want to define an alias in ~/.ssh/config
2007-05-31T20:17:16  <grzywacz> Oooh, caffeine started to work. Good.
2007-05-31T20:17:29  <grzywacz> ThomasWaldmann, what's wrong with my temporary debugging lines?
2007-05-31T20:17:40  <zenhase> hmm
2007-05-31T20:18:09  <zenhase>  % hg push
2007-05-31T20:18:09  <zenhase> abort: no suitable response from remote hg!
2007-05-31T20:18:19  <ThomasWaldmann> grzywacz: what are you referring to?
2007-05-31T20:18:59  <grzywacz> <ThomasWaldmann> try to avoid that
2007-05-31T20:19:00  <grzywacz> <ThomasWaldmann> +        if self.config.verbose == True:
2007-05-31T20:20:12  <ThomasWaldmann> that is usually written as if self.config.verbose:
2007-05-31T20:20:22  <grzywacz> You're right, thanks. :)
2007-05-31T20:30:10  <zenhase> hmm, google does not seem to be very informational about my push-problem and -v(erbose) seems not very verbose about error-conditions
2007-05-31T20:30:37  <zenhase> does anyone know what the problem might be? ssh-key does seem to get accepted
2007-05-31T20:30:37  <ThomasWaldmann> what happens if you ssh hg@hg.thinkmo.de manually?
2007-05-31T20:31:03  <zenhase> Connection to hg.thinkmo.de closed.
2007-05-31T20:31:09  <ThomasWaldmann> and didnt that already work some time ago?
2007-05-31T20:31:44  <ThomasWaldmann> ok, this is normal
2007-05-31T20:31:52  <ThomasWaldmann> your current hgrc?
2007-05-31T20:33:46  <zenhase> http://rafb.net/p/Ifmqpy67.html
2007-05-31T20:38:12  <zenhase> hmm, ssh -v has some strange lines
2007-05-31T20:38:37  <zenhase> debug1: Remote: Forced command: source ~/.profile && NAME=floriankrupicka hg-ssh moin/1.7-template-fkrupickak 2>>~/log
2007-05-31T20:38:57  <zenhase> the k there at the end ... does it belong there?
2007-05-31T20:38:58  <xorAxAx> that looks good
2007-05-31T20:39:04  <xorAxAx> that means that you are in
2007-05-31T20:39:10  <xorAxAx> and that thomas made a typo :)
2007-05-31T20:39:10  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann:
2007-05-31T20:40:31  <zenhase> ah ok
2007-05-31T20:41:24  <ThomasWaldmann> zenhase: try now
2007-05-31T20:42:15  <zenhase> don4e
2007-05-31T20:42:17  <zenhase> -4
2007-05-31T20:43:13  <zenhase> hmm, in the log-browser it looks like those files where added ... but i copied them with hg copy from modern-theme ...
2007-05-31T20:43:25  <zenhase> is this typical hg-behaviour?
2007-05-31T20:44:54  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: you didnt add a tag for SOCSTART :)
2007-05-31T20:47:12  * zenhase really starts liking hg
2007-05-31T20:47:28  <zenhase> has a snappy feel to it ... i should really switch my own repos from darcs to hg
2007-05-31T20:59:22  <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: students can also add tags in their branch :)
2007-05-31T20:59:35  <xorAxAx> oh well
2007-05-31T21:00:44  <ThomasWaldmann> SOC2007-START
2007-05-31T21:02:32  <xorAxAx> zenhase: see http://hg.alexanderweb.de/moin-1.7-template-fkrupicka/log/9e5c324c1eb2/wiki/htdocs/genshitheme/css/common.css
2007-05-31T21:02:39  <xorAxAx> zenhase: and spot the "base" link
2007-05-31T21:10:54  <ThomasWaldmann> lanius: your __init__.py is rather empty
2007-05-31T21:13:37  <grzywacz> I wonder where should the i18n process take place. Wiki seems to a better choice than notification bot. Nor not?
2007-05-31T21:14:14  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: btw, why dont we see the 1.7 commits via CIA here?
2007-05-31T21:14:21  <xorAxAx> can you attempt to fix that? :)
2007-05-31T21:14:28  <grzywacz> Yeah, would be nice.
2007-05-31T21:14:37  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: hmm
2007-05-31T21:14:47  <grzywacz> I'd be encouraged not to commit push in a batch in a middle of night ;)
2007-05-31T21:14:49  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: who knows the jid of the receiver?
2007-05-31T21:14:52  <grzywacz> s/commit//
2007-05-31T21:15:04  <grzywacz> xorAxAx, wiki, everyone has to put it in his/her preferences.
2007-05-31T21:15:07  <xorAxAx> ah
2007-05-31T21:15:12  <xorAxAx> well, then its the wiki
2007-05-31T21:16:23  <grzywacz> Obviously. The proposed method signatures (on my JabberSupport page) have way too many arguments for simple usage, then.
2007-05-31T21:16:32  <grzywacz> When data forms come in, they may be useful. :)
2007-05-31T21:16:36  <xorAxAx> hehe
2007-05-31T21:22:26  <grzywacz> Oh god, 34 emails generated by tests. ;)
2007-05-31T21:26:57  <zenhase> xorAxAx: ah, ok
2007-05-31T21:30:20  <ThomasWaldmann> someone has anything to commit?
2007-05-31T21:30:34  <xorAxAx> why?
2007-05-31T21:30:41  <zenhase> to test, i presume :>
2007-05-31T21:30:47  <ThomasWaldmann> to test cia
2007-05-31T21:32:51  <grzywacz> Me, in a moment.
2007-05-31T21:33:26  <CIA-25> moin: Karol 'grzywacz' Nowak <grzywacz@sul.uni.lodz.pl> * 2052:aa761813d7bd 1.7-jabber-knowak/MoinMoin/jabber/ (main.py xmlrpcbot.py): Silly changes to test CIA.
2007-05-31T21:33:31  <grzywacz> Works. ;]
2007-05-31T21:33:48  <xorAxAx> :-)
2007-05-31T21:37:24  <grzywacz> I wonder if I could write some tests that would make sense...
2007-05-31T21:37:58  <zenhase> grzywacz: that's what i am constantly thinking too, when dealing with html-emitting code
2007-05-31T21:38:29  <grzywacz> zenhase, I can't think of any easy-to-write test cases for xmlrpc communication, for instance.
2007-05-31T21:38:52  <zenhase> hmm
2007-05-31T21:39:05  <grzywacz> zenhase, maybe intergration with html tidy would do some good?
2007-05-31T21:39:17  <zenhase> just thought about something like that
2007-05-31T21:39:17  <CIA-25> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro * 2011:20c1de71cf91 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/ (Page.py theme/__init__.py): Small bugfixes
2007-05-31T21:39:41  <xorAxAx> zenhase: genshi simplies it - you can throw an xpath expr at the output and check the result
2007-05-31T21:39:41  <grzywacz> neagulm, oh, hi. What are you doing to make eclipse PEP8-aware? :)
2007-05-31T21:39:50  <zenhase> or better: parse the output to dom, coalesce adjacent textnodes
2007-05-31T21:40:30  <zenhase> xorAxAx: oh  ... that's another nice idea
2007-05-31T21:40:35  <neagulm> grzywacz, currently nothing :) I'm playing around with SpamBayes
2007-05-31T21:40:44  <zenhase> will build on that when continuing the code
2007-05-31T21:41:00  <neagulm> grzywacz, I will leave the play with eclipse for tomorrow
2007-05-31T21:43:39  <zenhase> what are the advantages with pyclipse? it won't do much refactoring, since he cannot infer the class of passed-around objects, does it?
2007-05-31T21:46:22  <ThomasWaldmann> pyclipse?
2007-05-31T21:50:38  <neagulm> zenhase, pydev ?
2007-05-31T21:51:07  <grzywacz> zenhase, it can't, no. But at least it works for imported stuff.
2007-05-31T21:51:54  <grzywacz> Is it ok to make it possible for users to retrieve their account data via jabber as well?
2007-05-31T21:53:04  <grzywacz> Woot, themable Moin with jabber notification - sounds modern. :D
2007-05-31T21:57:54  <xorAxAx> grzywacz: its as sensible as sending them via mail, maybe even more secure
2007-05-31T21:58:06  <xorAxAx> and oracle-storage
2007-05-31T21:59:00  <grzywacz> I can't really appreciate storage refactoring and AI filtering that neagulm does, because I've never hosted a large, public wiki. ;-)
2007-05-31T21:59:47  <xorAxAx> well, AI filtering is also for classification
2007-05-31T22:00:49  <grzywacz> Yes, I know. Still, I've never used moin with *lots* of data, when these features will probably be very useful
2007-05-31T22:01:53  <ThomasWaldmann> and storage refactoring is not only important for big public wikis
2007-05-31T22:03:24  <grzywacz> Elaborate please? :)
2007-05-31T22:03:43  <xorAxAx> well, in terms of inner code quality
2007-05-31T22:03:58  <xorAxAx> we all should benefit, except if you only do this for the money and the pain :-)
2007-05-31T22:05:01  <grzywacz> Well, sure.
2007-05-31T22:07:14  <ThomasWaldmann> having cleanly separated metadata is a door opener for quite some features
2007-05-31T22:07:37  * xorAxAx doesnt think so
2007-05-31T22:07:57  * ThomasWaldmann does :)
2007-05-31T22:08:03  <grzywacz> We shall see. ;)
2007-05-31T22:08:22  <ThomasWaldmann> and we'll get rid of that crappy AttachFile
2007-05-31T22:08:43  <ThomasWaldmann> revisioning for files, ....
2007-05-31T22:08:43  <xorAxAx> the keppy attachfile? :)
2007-05-31T22:09:43  <grzywacz> lol? ;]
2007-05-31T22:10:32  <xorAxAx> we should introduce it as an adjective
2007-05-31T22:11:10  <ThomasWaldmann>     Copyright (c) 2001 by Ken Sugino (sugino@mediaone.net)
2007-05-31T22:11:35  <ThomasWaldmann> some hacks just last too long
2007-05-31T22:13:19  <grzywacz> I guess there's a "law" which states that "quick hacks" always stay long in code ;)
2007-05-31T22:13:57  <xorAxAx> hehe
2007-05-31T23:23:30  <neagulm> to what wiki should I sync for lots of spam ?
2007-05-31T23:32:51  <vpv> I'm sorry, I didn't get to make the wiki page for me and my project yet. I spent the evening doing Fedora localisation, since I won't have a lot of time for that after tomorrow. But I'll make the wiki pages first thing tomorrow morning.