MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2009-05-31

2009-05-31T00:05:14  <dreimark> dimazest: me is not happy with that. sometimes I like to debug the code too and then it is more effort for me.
2009-05-31T00:08:31  <dreimark> the question is how long it takes to have a cleaner commit to hg.moin
2009-05-31T00:13:47  <dreimark> dimazest: As we have request.user we could have request.groups too
2009-05-31T00:14:45  <dreimark> so that we can enter if request.user.name in request.groups[u"FoobarGroup"]:
2009-05-31T00:14:58  <ThomasWaldmann> dimazest: http://pastebin.com/f548fe238 < please read
2009-05-31T00:15:19  <ThomasWaldmann> and while reading and processing it, please make up 10 rules or questions out of it
2009-05-31T00:17:17  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: how about moving AccessDeniedError to storage.error?
2009-05-31T00:17:24  <dreimark> dimazest: I think this gives you a better idea that we don't want docstrings if they are just repeating the name of the class.
2009-05-31T00:20:12  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: and please check ACLError there
2009-05-31T00:37:23  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: still awake?
2009-05-31T01:06:43  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5818:f36d77782d51 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/items/__init__.py: items: add is_deleted property (and use it)
2009-05-31T01:06:45  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5819:b3756cb25b63 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/ (5 files in 5 dirs): move AccessDeniedError definition to storage.error module
2009-05-31T01:06:47  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5820:326d810274b9 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/macro/ (RandomItem.py RandomPage.py): refactor RandomPage macro, rename it to RandomItem
2009-05-31T01:34:12  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: Actually I think of the ADError more as an error specific to the middleware that is in no way related to storage, but this is such a minor thing, I don't really care. And it makes imports more intuitive.
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2009-05-31T01:36:25  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: search_item still needs to be mapped... one may decide to override search_item
2009-05-31T01:41:12  <CIA-19> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station ROUNDTHING com> default * 5821:9a41ec09b42c 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/storage/backends/acl.py:
2009-05-31T01:41:12  <CIA-19> storage: It must be possible for backend implementors to define their own
2009-05-31T01:41:12  <CIA-19> methods on the backend which are then called by the items. In order to allow
2009-05-31T01:41:12  <CIA-19> that, the AMW must redirect any call to a method that it does not itself define
2009-05-31T01:41:14  <CIA-19> to the actual backend. However, for this to work the AMW must not inherit from
2009-05-31T01:41:16  <CIA-19> Backend.
2009-05-31T01:41:18  <CIA-19> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station ROUNDTHING com> default * 5822:7282c83d1779 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/storage/backends/acl.py: storage: two more methods for the AclWrapperBackend
2009-05-31T01:41:21  <CIA-19> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station ROUNDTHING com> default * 5823:e7651c9bdd61 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/ (12 files in 9 dirs): merge remote 2.0-storage
2009-05-31T01:41:28  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: sure, it is specific, but easier to use this way
2009-05-31T01:46:20  <dennda> yes
2009-05-31T01:46:21  <dennda> ok
2009-05-31T01:46:34  <dennda> please see the comment on the has_item method of the AMW
2009-05-31T01:46:53  <dennda> i've some further thoughts, but i'll formulate them tomorrow
2009-05-31T01:46:56  <dennda> very tired
2009-05-31T01:46:57  <dennda> good night
2009-05-31T02:00:20  <ThomasWaldmann> gn dennda
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2009-05-31T02:02:25  <ThomasWaldmann> BUGS! (auf ZDFinfo)
2009-05-31T02:41:57  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: i don't think we can completely hide an item. as soon as you try to create it or rename some other item to its name, you'll notice that there is something.
2009-05-31T02:42:40  <ThomasWaldmann> but, as we did before, we will not list it in TitleIndex or search results
2009-05-31T02:43:46  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5824:23e5da5f6b94 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/items/__init__.py: items: create highlevel Item from an existing backend item, use highlevel Items for the result of list_items/search_item
2009-05-31T02:43:48  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5825:d67a624cfc23 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/storage/backends/acl.py: merged main
2009-05-31T02:53:47  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: "admin" check is missing still
2009-05-31T03:46:24  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5826:56700ece2eb2 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/macro/EditTemplates.py: remove EditTemplates macro, we have already better code in items for this
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2009-05-31T10:47:13  <CIA-19> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 4726:be20177b2c0e 1.9/MoinMoin/ (action/PackagePages.py theme/__init__.py): action PackagePages: since we don't store the package file on the given page we don't need to check for write rights on that page
2009-05-31T10:51:30  <dreimark> how do i get an item list of used items on a page (2.0-storage)?
2009-05-31T11:11:56  <dreimark> bbl
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2009-05-31T11:48:55  <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2009-05-31T12:07:38  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: maybe flat_index is what you want
2009-05-31T12:27:38  <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: btw, wikisync (and xmlrpc) could be adapted to use the new Items, making it more powerful. so in case you want to help, feel free. :)
2009-05-31T12:49:03  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: admin should be checked in the modify-view, I think
2009-05-31T12:50:04  <ThomasWaldmann> why?
2009-05-31T12:51:10  <dennda> why not? you need to check whether the #acl changed
2009-05-31T12:51:34  <dennda> hm
2009-05-31T12:51:44  <dennda> or in the commit wrapper
2009-05-31T12:52:08  <ThomasWaldmann> one point of the storage acl wrapper was to protect from wrong code that does wrong acl checks, by doing it just once at the storage acl wrapper level
2009-05-31T12:52:34  <dennda> indeed
2009-05-31T12:53:57  <dennda> i'll take care of it
2009-05-31T12:58:40  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, there is still a comment in the acl.py header that it does not work
2009-05-31T14:18:48  * ThomasWaldmann refactors login
2009-05-31T15:11:26  * ThomasWaldmann refactors newaccount
2009-05-31T15:34:29  <CIA-19> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station ROUNDTHING com> default * 5827:f71e7a7a4fe8 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/storage/backends/acl.py: storage: Introduce AclWrappedNewRevision
2009-05-31T15:34:31  <CIA-19> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station ROUNDTHING com> default * 5828:1029169ff497 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/storage/error.py: storage: AccessDeniedError: default message string
2009-05-31T15:34:33  <CIA-19> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station ROUNDTHING com> default * 5829:daad72d986be 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/ (items/__init__.py macro/EditTemplates.py): merge remote 2.0-storage
2009-05-31T15:40:18  <CIA-19> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station ROUNDTHING com> default * 5830:ef9579593017 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/storage/backends/acl.py: storage: Provide AMW.has_item
2009-05-31T15:42:14  <dennda> forgot to mention: f71e7a7a4fe8 introduces the admin check
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2009-05-31T16:13:56  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: I guess quite a few things from MoinMoin.actions are/will be outdated. Did you already remove those? (There's still a bunch of explicit permission checks)
2009-05-31T16:23:24  <ThomasWaldmann> yes, some stuff doesn't work right now
2009-05-31T16:23:58  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe concentrate on the important actions for now (== the ones I already touched)
2009-05-31T16:40:54  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: didn't you already remove the explicit checks from those you touched?
2009-05-31T16:41:19  <dennda> # Remove current ACL checks (ACL checks should reside in the middleware exclusively)
2009-05-31T16:41:25  <dennda> talking about that objective
2009-05-31T16:51:45  <ThomasWaldmann> i usually did
2009-05-31T16:53:29  <ThomasWaldmann> well, then maybe try the non-broken stuff, if any
2009-05-31T16:55:14  <ThomasWaldmann> or work on tests or on delete
2009-05-31T16:56:44  <ThomasWaldmann> or on create :)
2009-05-31T17:02:36  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: do you have any plan as to how the UI should make the user aware of missing permissions? in 1.9 there was no modify link and instead it said Immutable Page. How do we achieve that without any permission checks outside of the AMW? Just try to get the item?
2009-05-31T17:04:17  <ThomasWaldmann> i guess there is an additional method needed to just check
2009-05-31T17:04:38  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe just expose the _may
2009-05-31T17:06:30  <ThomasWaldmann> and trying to get the item doesn't tell about writability, you'ld need to try to write to it, but we can't do that
2009-05-31T17:07:00  <dennda> exactly
2009-05-31T17:07:10  <dennda> a similar thing applies to the isadmin check
2009-05-31T17:10:20  <ThomasWaldmann> and to "create" (we maybe don't want to ask for mimetype and template and then find that user may not create the item anyway)
2009-05-31T17:12:17  <dennda> yes
2009-05-31T17:15:43  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: btw, please update diary daily
2009-05-31T17:17:11  <ThomasWaldmann> and check stuff from project page that you already have done
2009-05-31T17:17:16  <ThomasWaldmann> (./)
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2009-05-31T17:36:53  <dennda> i doubt we still want the dummy middleware...
2009-05-31T17:39:18  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5831:490f504ec5f1 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/ (12 files in 5 dirs): (log message trimmed)
2009-05-31T17:39:18  <CIA-19> refactoring / simplifying code to use templates / new theme code (details below)
2009-05-31T17:39:18  <CIA-19> newaccount/login/logout:
2009-05-31T17:39:18  <CIA-19> * use templates / new theme code
2009-05-31T17:39:18  <CIA-19> * fix links
2009-05-31T17:39:20  <CIA-19> rc: simplify
2009-05-31T17:39:24  <CIA-19> render_content:
2009-05-31T17:39:26  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5832:693ae4110062 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/ (Page.py items/__init__.py items/twikidraw.py): rename Item.item_name to Item.name
2009-05-31T17:39:29  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5833:0e7d473edd8d 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/storage/ (backends/acl.py error.py): merged main
2009-05-31T17:39:34  <dennda> the GUI editor is buggered
2009-05-31T17:39:44  <ThomasWaldmann> what gui editor? :P
2009-05-31T17:39:51  <dennda> moinmo.in
2009-05-31T17:40:06  <dennda> doesn't allow to strike some text
2009-05-31T17:40:11  <dennda> i.e., doesn't save it
2009-05-31T17:48:15  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5834:d268a4c4d57e 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/macro/ (ItemCount.py PageCount.py): rename PageCount macro to ItemCount, simplify its code
2009-05-31T17:53:00  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5835:38cfb0d14155 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/multiconfig.py: remove old MoinMoin/multiconfig.py compatibility hack
2009-05-31T18:16:17  * ThomasWaldmann refactor user browser
2009-05-31T18:17:50  <dimazest> hi
2009-05-31T18:18:31  <dimazest> ThomasWaldmann: thank you fort the docstring examples
2009-05-31T18:19:27  <dimazest> dreimark: what if i push this uncompleted commits to the http://hg.moinmo.in/moin/1.9-sandbox/ ? or i can upload bundles to the wiki
2009-05-31T18:20:12  <ThomasWaldmann> dimazest: no problem. which rules / questions did you extract?
2009-05-31T18:20:59  <dimazest> i just went trough the diff, i want to print it and study more carefully
2009-05-31T18:21:10  <dimazest> because i do not like read from screen
2009-05-31T18:21:44  <ThomasWaldmann> do you have a GOOD screen?
2009-05-31T18:22:14  <dimazest> today i've got lg flatron 19" for 50 euro
2009-05-31T18:22:28  <dimazest> before i used 13"
2009-05-31T18:22:35  <ThomasWaldmann> heh, that was cheap :)
2009-05-31T18:23:17  * ThomasWaldmann works on 13.3" 1440x900 (and has set X11 DPI right)
2009-05-31T18:24:19  <dimazest> isn't it small
2009-05-31T18:24:58  <dimazest> for python it's not that critical, because text editor + terminal is all you need
2009-05-31T18:25:57  <dimazest> i just did some java programming with eclipse/netbeans on 13" it's like programming on a mobile phone
2009-05-31T18:26:30  <dimazest> because all the tabs, browsers, whatever get so many space, that for editor 1/3 of a screen is left
2009-05-31T18:32:42  <ThomasWaldmann> 1440x900 is big enough do to serious stuff
2009-05-31T18:33:26  <ThomasWaldmann> and the perceived size of your screen gets bigger if the distance to it gets lower :D
2009-05-31T18:41:02  <dimazest> :) sitting position is not the best, when sit close to a monitor
2009-05-31T18:41:57  <dimazest> mine is 1440x900 on 19", so we get equal amount of information
2009-05-31T18:55:10  <dreimark> dimazest: extract some questions and I think if you think a bit about the changes ThomasWaldmann it will be much easier to satisfy us
2009-05-31T18:55:18  <dreimark> +did
2009-05-31T18:55:29  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann:  hg  revert -r 4706 ../wikiutil.py
2009-05-31T18:55:52  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann has some heavy classes with built-in screen magnifier
2009-05-31T18:55:55  <dreimark> makes some tests giving better results
2009-05-31T18:55:56  <dennda> *glasses
2009-05-31T18:57:40  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: http://hg.moinmo.in/moin/1.9/rev/6acb48a16e32
2009-05-31T18:58:09  <dreimark> the wikiutil.
2009-05-31T18:58:21  <dreimark> isSystemPage seems not to cover the old beahviour
2009-05-31T19:01:10  <ThomasWaldmann> dimazest: it's a laptop
2009-05-31T19:02:50  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: quite some stuff there might still be a bit broken
2009-05-31T19:04:05  <dreimark> I guess to I have extracted a test from the package test http://paste.pocoo.org/show/120150/
2009-05-31T19:05:17  <dreimark> some of the code may be could only be changed after replacing underlay
2009-05-31T19:06:15  * dreimark continues with packageitems ;)
2009-05-31T19:10:37  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: 1.9 won't be merged into 2.0-storage or?
2009-05-31T19:14:30  <dimazest> do we need this http://hg.moinmo.in/moin/1.9-groups-dmilajevs/file/c3e904a9c00b/MoinMoin/web/contexts.py#l372 ? should it be replaced with a new GroupManager?
2009-05-31T19:16:07  <dreimark> that may become lazy initialisation for groups
2009-05-31T19:16:45  <dimazest> so there we can return GroupManager?
2009-05-31T19:17:42  <dimazest> btw, i decidet to use request.groups name for the group manager
2009-05-31T19:18:03  <dreimark> ah ok, I just wanted to ask if you haven't read those lines
2009-05-31T19:19:48  <dreimark> you may want to think a bit about how the new code code be used.
2009-05-31T19:19:58  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5836:d623f0905eed 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/ (7 files in 5 dirs): kill SystemAdmin macro, implement UserBrowser action
2009-05-31T19:20:43  <dreimark> sometimes I think it would be good to have the groups of the user also in the user object. request.user.groups
2009-05-31T19:21:02  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: i intend to pull 1.9 -> 1.9-storage -> 2.0-storage from time to time
2009-05-31T19:22:53  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: if something becomes renamed it makes no trouble or ?
2009-05-31T19:29:12  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5837:61edf7d97ed2 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/ (userprefs/prefs.py util/__init__.py action/dumpform.py): remove dumpFormData (use logging framework for debugging)
2009-05-31T19:29:24  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: merging fun :P
2009-05-31T19:36:28  * ThomasWaldmann removes antispam secpol and Despam action
2009-05-31T19:44:33  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5838:e72a110e7b65 2.0-storage/ (7 files in 7 dirs): (log message trimmed)
2009-05-31T19:44:33  <CIA-19> removed Despam action and antispam security policy (reasons below)
2009-05-31T19:44:33  <CIA-19> TextChas are quite effective in avoiding spam - we have not seen much spam
2009-05-31T19:44:33  <CIA-19> on moinmo.in sites since we have them and the little we have seen can be
2009-05-31T19:44:36  <CIA-19> easily reverted manually (no need for Despam).
2009-05-31T19:44:38  <CIA-19> OTOH, updating the master BadContent page was a lot of work and was not very
2009-05-31T19:44:40  <CIA-19> effective: spammers change URLs much too often. Also, some people were annoyed
2009-05-31T19:50:32  * ThomasWaldmann looks at the 2.5 poll
2009-05-31T19:52:31  <ThomasWaldmann> looking at the amount of changes being done in 2.0-storage, I think I'll raise requirement to python 2.5
2009-05-31T19:52:59  <ThomasWaldmann> conservative users won't use mm20 anytime soon anyway
2009-05-31T19:53:17  <ThomasWaldmann> any opinions about this?
2009-05-31T19:54:29  <ThomasWaldmann> (and to be clear about it: that is ONLY for 2.0*, NOT for 1.9* [moin 1.9 needs still to work with py 2.4])
2009-05-31T19:59:49  <dreimark> ok with me
2009-05-31T20:01:14  <ThomasWaldmann> and especially for dennda: that is 2.5, NOT 2.6 :P
2009-05-31T20:02:47  <waldi> in favor
2009-05-31T20:12:38  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5839:91e3f324258c 2.0-storage/ (MoinMoin/version.py moin.spec): bump version to 2.0.0alpha, raise Python minimum requirement to 2.5
2009-05-31T20:32:01  <dennda> yay, 2.6!
2009-05-31T20:45:13  <dreimark> dennda: 2.5
2009-05-31T20:50:37  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5840:cef02935db25 2.0-storage/ (7 files in 5 dirs): removed support code for Python < 2.5
2009-05-31T20:51:44  <ThomasWaldmann> http://www.python.org/download/releases/2.5/highlights/
2009-05-31T20:54:11  <ThomasWaldmann> http://www.python.org/doc/2.5/whatsnew/ < more detailled
2009-05-31T21:10:40  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5841:1e503e4a2419 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/ (4 files in 3 dirs): fix difflib imports to use stdlib
2009-05-31T21:22:10  <CIA-19> Dmitrijs Milajevs <dimazest@gmail.com> default * 4737:fb0cce9e8621 1.9-groups-dmilajevs/MoinMoin/ (6 files in 4 dirs): Groups 2009: Moin.groups.GroupManager is initialized with a request initialization.
2009-05-31T21:22:12  <CIA-19> Dmitrijs Milajevs <dimazest@gmail.com> default * 4738:0a0387a9eb1e 1.9-groups-dmilajevs/MoinMoin/groups/ (4 files in 2 dirs): Groups2009: BackendManager does not require request object in __init__
2009-05-31T21:26:34  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5842:176d0c08a92a 2.0-storage/ (56 files in 4 dirs): remove pre-1.9 migration scripts
2009-05-31T21:39:04  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: your middleware_acl tests are failing due to missing admin rights
2009-05-31T21:49:18  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5843:6382c581aa8a 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/ (3 files in 3 dirs): fix some PEP8 failures, remove tests for cache action (cache action was integrated into do=get)
2009-05-31T22:07:22  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5844:be7f13492f0d 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/parser/ (text_docbook.py text_rst.py text_xslt.py): remove unmaintained parsers: docbook, rst, xslt
2009-05-31T22:07:24  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5845:35424133ca64 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/ (Page.py config/multiconfig.py parser/_tests/test_unicode.py): remove some support code / configuration of docbook / rst / xslt parsers
2009-05-31T22:08:07  <ThomasWaldmann> waldi: ^^ 3 problems less (for now)
2009-05-31T22:18:24  <dreimark> where is the data of an item hidden?
2009-05-31T22:18:32  <CIA-19> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5846:22258c3a56d8 2.0-storage/MoinMoin/parser/ (__init__.py highlight.py _ParserBase.py): remove deprecated _ParserBase
2009-05-31T22:18:37  <ThomasWaldmann> 4
2009-05-31T22:19:23  <dreimark> item = self.request.cfg.data_backend.get_item(item_name)
2009-05-31T22:19:31  <dreimark> and what it the raw_data ?
2009-05-31T22:24:01  <ThomasWaldmann> ?
2009-05-31T22:26:32  <dreimark> aha, the storage backend can not be used from another request (cli)
2009-05-31T22:40:06  <dreimark> Packageitem has ts first item stored :)
2009-05-31T22:43:19  <ThomasWaldmann> ah :)
2009-05-31T22:50:58  <dreimark> s/AddAttachment/AddRevision/
2009-05-31T22:53:40  <ThomasWaldmann> AddItem?
2009-05-31T22:56:23  <dreimark> I mean both states now only named AddItem?
2009-05-31T22:58:49  <ThomasWaldmann> what I meant is that the right thing to replace a "AddAttachment" with would be a "AddItem"
2009-05-31T23:02:17  <dreimark> yes but also I have AddRevison which was the page before. So it becomes renamed too
2009-05-31T23:06:04  <ThomasWaldmann> but package contents are not revisioned, so ...
2009-05-31T23:21:49  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: don't forget test_packages, it also currently crashes because of missing AttachFile
2009-05-31T23:29:17  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: hmm, how do packages handle metadata?
2009-05-31T23:32:59  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: if you run the unit test, there are some strange tracebacks relating to rev -1
2009-05-31T23:37:36  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: also some relating to self.backend being None
2009-05-31T23:43:44  <dreimark> yeah and the export package too
2009-05-31T23:44:37  <dreimark> currently it doesn't but we can use the comment field for each file. We don't use it currently
2009-05-31T23:45:42  * dreimark let's see if my connection persist till Friday or I am logged off in a quarter
2009-05-31T23:57:08  *** grzywacz has quit IRC