2007-09-04T00:07:50 <CIA-13> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3076:b8735b4c5020 1.7-maninfo-vpv/ (5 files in 5 dirs): merge from main
2007-09-04T00:07:52 <CIA-13> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3077:b4d2a84e16eb 1.7-maninfo-vpv/MoinMoin/script/maint/makemanindexes.py: Add makemanindexes.py script for making index pages with man/info wiki.
2007-09-04T00:07:53 <CIA-13> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3079:29502a6840de 1.7-maninfo-vpv/MoinMoin/ (3 files in 2 dirs): merge from main
2007-09-04T00:34:39 <grzywacz> n8
2007-09-04T00:35:12 <xorAxAx> dreimark: seats at the windows are loudest on a plane, right?
2007-09-04T00:35:36 <starshine> xorAxAx: nope, the ones next to kids are ;P
2007-09-04T00:35:59 <xorAxAx> starshine: well, if they turn off the light, usually the kids are turned off as well
2007-09-04T00:36:31 <dreimark> yeah, but it was not too loud
2007-09-04T00:36:56 <xorAxAx> i suffered severely from loud noises when i was on my trip to rio
2007-09-04T00:37:00 <dreimark> no not at window - mistake, those are ok
2007-09-04T00:37:13 <xorAxAx> they werent for me, near the engines :)
2007-09-04T00:37:17 <dreimark> need leo first
2007-09-04T00:37:59 <xorAxAx> hehe
2007-09-04T00:38:46 <starshine> anyway I assure you it's not the window that's the loud, it's all the other pesky noises that can't leave the shell.
2007-09-04T00:38:47 <dreimark> yeah near the engine its loud, (I was looking for wing)
2007-09-04T00:39:21 <dreimark> all the other windows are very nice you should have one if you like cities by night its very impressive
2007-09-04T00:40:42 <dreimark> and on the way back they are shutted because of the sun
2007-09-04T00:41:28 <xorAxAx> starshine: on my flight to rio, it was the jet engine
2007-09-04T00:41:32 <xorAxAx> and the air noises
2007-09-04T00:41:35 <xorAxAx> no kids at all
2007-09-04T00:41:41 <xorAxAx> because it was night
2007-09-04T00:42:06 <starshine> ah ok
2007-09-04T00:42:19 <starshine> in that case yeah the window would get notixeable
2007-09-04T00:42:49 <dreimark> Last time I was sitting near to the engine at the wing and it was not as bad as I thought before
2007-09-04T00:43:01 <dreimark> I was able to talk to my neighbours
2007-09-04T00:44:13 <dreimark> Some people like to sit at the i corridor because of long legs
2007-09-04T00:44:25 <xorAxAx> dreimark: well, i was trying to sleep
2007-09-04T00:45:10 <dreimark> if you can you are lucky I cant
2007-09-04T00:46:08 <xorAxAx> rio is farer away, though
2007-09-04T00:46:13 <xorAxAx> well, i couldnt really either
2007-09-04T00:46:54 <dreimark> I know I was there many years ago too.
2007-09-04T00:47:27 <dreimark> but i did only the filght from rio to frankfurt
2007-09-04T00:47:41 <xorAxAx> that one was better
2007-09-04T00:48:17 <starshine> it's not a good idea for me to sleep during ascent or descent
2007-09-04T00:48:32 <starshine> or for a chunk of time that isn't about 3h or longer -
2007-09-04T00:48:49 <dreimark> I was going by an icebreaker to rio grande and afterwards I've had some vacation in brazil
2007-09-04T00:48:54 <xorAxAx> ascent or descent? those are pretty short time spans
2007-09-04T00:48:57 <starshine> so I usually don't sleep on planes, because continental flights don't run that long unless it's a nonstop to NY
2007-09-04T00:49:25 <starshine> yeah but - if I'm gonna sleep I need to tell the stewards to wake me *before* descent
2007-09-04T00:49:49 <starshine> it's a pain - I can usually find a better way to spend my time
2007-09-04T00:50:04 <starshine> like uh embroidery until electronics are ok again
2007-09-04T00:50:55 <xorAxAx> hehe
2007-09-04T00:51:31 <xorAxAx> i think i might be able to sense the ding sound if my ears are still not too ballooned
2007-09-04T00:52:15 <starshine> maybe. but the ding is right before descent, and I want to be fully awake by that
2007-09-04T00:52:16 <dreimark> dont take too much food with you. most food is not welcome to the states
2007-09-04T00:52:53 <starshine> actually yeah he's right, half the states have snarky anti veggie regs
2007-09-04T00:53:31 <starshine> also you can buy here more food than you'd know what to do with
2007-09-04T00:53:33 <dreimark> you have to eat it before landing or to trash it
2007-09-04T00:54:22 <starshine> well I carried beefjerkey and dried ginger with me
2007-09-04T00:54:29 <starshine> don't bring *fresh* food
2007-09-04T00:54:36 <starshine> don't bring anything that's a gel
2007-09-04T00:55:07 <starshine> I dunno what's with that, probably someone made a joke aout their toothpaste -
2007-09-04T00:55:21 <dreimark> and dont take a switzer knife with you, you will loose it.
2007-09-04T00:55:27 <starshine> but now you can't have 3 oz of liquid or gel. it's really stupid
2007-09-04T00:55:59 <starshine> they will let you mail your knife back home if they are nice but you still can't take it into airport space with you
2007-09-04T00:56:00 <dreimark> I dont know what they did with all the water bottles
2007-09-04T00:56:20 <starshine> most people go through security without them and then just buy another one
2007-09-04T00:57:02 <starshine> this is part of how everyone feels it's worthless, what good 'defense' is stealing people's water?
2007-09-04T00:57:12 <dreimark> The box in denver was quite full and one was mine. I missed to drink it.
2007-09-04T00:57:59 <dreimark> someone told me an empty one could be carried and filled afterwards
2007-09-04T00:58:39 <starshine> right. carry a proper sports bottle with a cap instead, then.
2007-09-04T00:59:23 <starshine> I think by introducign generic harrassment they think they make people feel like there's cops around watching, so "it's safer"
2007-09-04T00:59:52 <starshine> this works in neighborhoods, where we'd be safe from each other perhaps
2007-09-04T01:00:36 <starshine> doesn't the real bugs in the system though
2007-09-04T01:00:39 <starshine> so these days
2007-09-04T01:00:49 <starshine> I love to fly, but I hate airports :/
2007-09-04T01:01:35 <xorAxAx> that empty bottle hint is nice
2007-09-04T01:01:46 <xorAxAx> one could fill it with free tea :)
2007-09-04T01:02:36 <dreimark> I have had to separate for security check cam and computer from shoes and so on
2007-09-04T01:03:02 <xorAxAx> separate? ausziehen?
2007-09-04T01:03:28 <dreimark> trennen, und schuhe ausziehen
2007-09-04T01:04:01 <starshine> dreimark: you think that's bad but bras with metal set them off :/
2007-09-04T01:04:26 <dreimark> hehehe
2007-09-04T01:04:32 <starshine> then you stand there feeling like an idiot while they run wands over you and treat you like a child
2007-09-04T01:05:29 <ThomasWaldmann> delta airline online booking system sucks
2007-09-04T01:05:45 <xorAxAx> starshine: maybe they get satisfaction from that
2007-09-04T01:05:58 <starshine> when I was a kid grandmas and grandpas would see whole families away home at the gate
2007-09-04T01:06:10 <starshine> now nobody goes back there without a ticket
2007-09-04T01:06:26 <starshine> or without some form of being asked for the same thing twice
2007-09-04T01:06:31 <ThomasWaldmann> they let me enter ALL data they want and then, after last submit button tell me that their system is not available 8-|
2007-09-04T01:06:40 <starshine> ouch
2007-09-04T01:07:02 <dreimark> At denver I did first time the electronic checkin.
2007-09-04T01:07:10 <dreimark> Ive never done it before
2007-09-04T01:07:13 <starshine> those are nice
2007-09-04T01:07:33 <starshine> "yes yes I'm still here don't resell my seat"
2007-09-04T01:07:41 <dreimark> And I was extremly surprised thats the display language of english changed to chinese
2007-09-04T01:07:51 <starshine> ..!
2007-09-04T01:08:09 <dreimark> seems thats the default if the lang of the passport is unknown
2007-09-04T01:08:21 <xorAxAx> LOL
2007-09-04T01:08:23 <starshine> weird.
2007-09-04T01:08:36 <xorAxAx> must have been designed by a mathematician
2007-09-04T01:08:42 <ThomasWaldmann> propability is rather high that we all are chinese :)
2007-09-04T01:08:57 <starshine> # of people on planet / # of passports on planet ..
2007-09-04T01:09:21 <dreimark> And on that flight one seat has had two persons.
2007-09-04T01:09:29 <starshine> weird++ because I suspect of total passports on planet fairly few are chinese.
2007-09-04T01:10:31 <dreimark> there were 8 languages shown possible but only english was readable by me.
2007-09-04T01:10:45 <xorAxAx> dreimark: in the US that is illegal because it might discommode other passengers
2007-09-04T01:11:38 <xorAxAx> good night
2007-09-04T01:11:42 <starshine> nn xorAxAx
2007-09-04T01:11:44 <dreimark> yeah the service man hasnt understand at first that I am not lucky with the decission of the machine
2007-09-04T01:11:56 <dreimark> hn xorAxAx
2007-09-04T01:12:04 <dreimark> gn
2007-09-04T01:12:04 <starshine> not lucky or not happy or both?
2007-09-04T01:12:45 <starshine> where was your passport from that it couldn't understand?
2007-09-04T01:12:52 <dreimark> no idea, I was surprised. he helped me then with getting the ticket
2007-09-04T01:12:58 <dreimark> its a german one
2007-09-04T01:13:33 <starshine> wacky. I'd have thought the major western europe countries would be first picks.
2007-09-04T01:13:47 <starshine> did they change their style recently?
2007-09-04T01:14:16 <starshine> I know when we changed the pictures on our money vending machines took a while to catch up.
2007-09-04T01:16:37 <dreimark> might be something like this. There was a change in design, but we have not to change every pasoport to the new one
2007-09-04T01:17:27 <dreimark> your passport needs to be only computer readable and does not need fingerprints as the new one adds
2007-09-04T01:19:02 <starshine> the new one has fingerprints, or the new one has more machine-readability?
2007-09-04T01:19:25 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: xorAxAx: I dont know how much stops you have now. But you should have some clothes in your carry-on luggage
2007-09-04T01:19:48 <starshine> I always recommend a spare shirt in something.
2007-09-04T01:19:49 <dreimark> starshine: the new one has fingerprints
2007-09-04T01:19:52 <starshine> ah
2007-09-04T01:20:21 <dreimark> yeah somtimes the luggage is some days behind
2007-09-04T01:20:47 <starshine> that only ever happened to me once in the US and that was a very long time ago
2007-09-04T01:21:40 <dreimark> I met some people in san francisco they have had this luck, vacation for a week
2007-09-04T01:21:52 <starshine> it's a shame one has to plan for a week to go somewhere for 3 days though :/
2007-09-04T01:21:55 <dreimark> and luggage arrived after three days
2007-09-04T01:22:22 <starshine> 1. buy souvenir clothes. 2. fedex dirty laundry home ;P
2007-09-04T01:22:31 <dreimark> Lean has had to wait a whole day in the flat because it was not clear when it came
2007-09-04T01:22:49 <dreimark> she did too the days before.
2007-09-04T01:23:14 <starshine> that's awful, that's what hotel service is for.
2007-09-04T01:24:04 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: to ffm by train, ffm - ny, ny - sfo
2007-09-04T01:24:10 <dreimark> yeah but she was staying on a private flat. They exchanged flats for vacation.
2007-09-04T01:24:11 <starshine> when I was expecting my laptop from repair I had it sent to my hotel; they received it for me and cellphoned me when it signed in.
2007-09-04T01:24:25 <starshine> oh. *ugh*
2007-09-04T01:24:50 <starshine> ThomasWaldmann: so you're visiting here again? Hooray!
2007-09-04T01:24:53 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: how long are you in ny
2007-09-04T01:25:06 <ThomasWaldmann> 1h or so
2007-09-04T01:25:10 <dreimark> yeah, and I cant unfortunately.
2007-09-04T01:25:16 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: thats a bit short
2007-09-04T01:25:27 <starshine> ha. enough time to walk and go to restroom and buy pudding.
2007-09-04T01:25:30 <ThomasWaldmann> starshine: yeah, google rulez :D
2007-09-04T01:25:37 <starshine> then get back in line to re-board..
2007-09-04T01:25:56 <starshine> ThomasWaldmann: when do you guys arrive?
2007-09-04T01:26:33 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: ny is the entry then
2007-09-04T01:26:39 <ThomasWaldmann> 2007-09-28 8:01pm sfo
2007-09-04T01:27:04 <starshine> are you guys getting a car this time?
2007-09-04T01:27:13 <dreimark> you have to get your luggage and then you ve to enter it again
2007-09-04T01:27:24 <dreimark> and you need to go again through more controls
2007-09-04T01:27:42 <ThomasWaldmann> yes, i think it makes sense for a 2w stay
2007-09-04T01:27:51 <starshine> :D :D
2007-09-04T01:28:18 <dreimark> Most people told me 1h is too less
2007-09-04T01:31:36 <ThomasWaldmann> 1.5h
2007-09-04T01:32:10 <ThomasWaldmann> but on the way back, in cincinatti, it is 45mins only
2007-09-04T01:32:43 <dreimark> way back its easier because you can sent the luggage through and have to pick it up in germany
2007-09-04T01:34:04 <ThomasWaldmann> hm?
2007-09-04T01:34:17 <ThomasWaldmann> why is it different on the way back?
2007-09-04T01:34:29 <dreimark> because of the entry
2007-09-04T01:34:40 <dreimark> it ny on the way to sf
2007-09-04T01:35:02 <dreimark> ny is first arrival into the states
2007-09-04T01:36:27 <dreimark> my plane to detroit was faster so I have had 4h in total. but I have had to wait about 30mins for the luggage
2007-09-04T01:36:44 <ThomasWaldmann> you mean the personal security checks take longer?
2007-09-04T01:37:00 <ThomasWaldmann> dont they transfer the luggage just to the other plane?
2007-09-04T01:37:17 <dreimark> In detroit I have had to carry the luggage
2007-09-04T01:37:41 <dreimark> I have had to pick it up and then I have had to enter it
2007-09-04T01:37:56 <dreimark> again
2007-09-04T01:38:34 <dreimark> and personal security check was nearly the same as in duesseldorf beside the shoes
2007-09-04T01:40:14 <dreimark> the entry itselfs was fast in detroit because there were many desks and less people
2007-09-04T01:40:54 <dreimark> I dont know ny, may be try to ask one who knows the international part
2007-09-04T01:41:02 <starshine> when I returned from the UK my destination was in the bay area but my stop was through Dallas. I had to do entry at Dallas.
2007-09-04T01:41:53 * starshine tries to remember if they made her get the checked luggage
2007-09-04T01:42:55 <dreimark> in europe thats usual too to have the entry at the first city.
2007-09-04T01:43:23 <starshine> it was very easy though; just like the line at the grocery store.
2007-09-04T01:43:30 <dreimark> I remember that the time I was going to kiruna through stockholm the entry was in stockholm in the past
2007-09-04T01:43:51 <starshine> show your id. purpose here? "returning home" look *stomp* have a great flight back
2007-09-04T01:44:24 <dreimark> some small talk, this part is really fast.
2007-09-04T01:45:00 <starshine> I *do* recall they had changed the carryon regs during my itinerary and that gave me some grief
2007-09-04T01:45:20 <starshine> they stole my nailclippers at boarding on way out to UK
2007-09-04T01:45:25 <dreimark> picking up luggage can take time. You like to have all your luggage.
2007-09-04T01:45:30 <starshine> I bought a new pair in Dallas behind the line
2007-09-04T01:45:42 <starshine> it has no undernail cleaner wedge
2007-09-04T01:46:00 <dreimark> And it could happen that you have because of thunderstorm a delay. As I have had in denver. 1h delay
2007-09-04T01:46:00 <starshine> they were breaking those off for people too
2007-09-04T01:46:32 <starshine> it's really dumb, any airplane I could take apart with a nail clipper I really shouldn't ride in.
2007-09-04T01:46:57 <ThomasWaldmann> hehe
2007-09-04T01:47:01 <starshine> but *ahem*
2007-09-04T01:47:09 <starshine> they do NOT take jokes
2007-09-04T01:47:27 <ThomasWaldmann> you can take it apart with a hg thermometer
2007-09-04T01:47:27 <starshine> ..sigh
2007-09-04T01:48:19 <starshine> hey your arrival is a friday night, I know the late places open
2007-09-04T01:48:38 <starshine> would you enjoy getting together then, or think you will be jetlag-exhausted?
2007-09-04T01:48:52 <dreimark> they ask a lot of questions. e.g. is something in you luggage which could be used as weapon.
2007-09-04T01:49:14 <dreimark> dont make jokes
2007-09-04T01:49:20 <starshine> my hairbrush if their skin's really sensitive *duck*
2007-09-04T01:49:43 <dreimark> starshine: are you from sfo?
2007-09-04T01:50:10 <starshine> dreimark: I'm down in the south bay but that's only about 30mi up the major highway
2007-09-04T01:50:57 <starshine> if they stay closer to google campus they'd be heading my direction anyway
2007-09-04T01:51:39 <ThomasWaldmann> starshine: i guess we will be tired and just pick the car and find the motel.
2007-09-04T01:51:45 <starshine> hrmmm probably best to plan on jetlag and/or horked arrival time
2007-09-04T01:52:07 <starshine> the motel has wifi?
2007-09-04T01:52:18 <ThomasWaldmann> we didnt book it yet
2007-09-04T01:52:32 <dreimark> starshine: I stayed two days at fishermans wharf at lombard street some weeks ago. Very nice town :)
2007-09-04T01:52:34 <ThomasWaldmann> neither we booked the car
2007-09-04T01:52:59 <starshine> ThomasWaldmann: Pacific Inns is a small local chain with several nice hotels whose price is probably not too horrible
2007-09-04T01:53:18 <starshine> dreimark: and you didnt tell me *whap*
2007-09-04T01:54:17 <dreimark> I tried to join sometimes moin but it was not easy because of the time
2007-09-04T01:54:23 <ThomasWaldmann> Ihre Buchungssitzung ist abgelaufen. Bitte beginnen Sie nochmal neu.
2007-09-04T01:54:33 * ThomasWaldmann is slighlty pissed.
2007-09-04T01:55:12 <ThomasWaldmann> the last ten tries i did trying to post that form they said "system not available, try later"
2007-09-04T01:55:27 <ThomasWaldmann> and now my session has timed out.
2007-09-04T01:56:12 <starshine> dreimark: if you had said ahead that you'd be in the area I would have given you my number or plans
2007-09-04T01:56:28 <dreimark> starshine: I should have used the wiki to tell our travel plans.
2007-09-04T01:56:31 <starshine> but it's ok you know for next time!
2007-09-04T01:56:46 * starshine would probably have missed that :/
2007-09-04T01:57:26 <starshine> ThomasWaldmann: and you guys tell me what graphics you need and I can just do them and hand them over on USB thumb :)
2007-09-04T01:59:12 <dreimark> starshine: nextime I do show my plans earlier, at the time we were travelling I was too much diverted from all the imoressive landscapes
2007-09-04T01:59:24 <dreimark> impressive
2007-09-04T01:59:37 <starshine> oh ok as long as you got to see the impressive landscapes
2007-09-04T01:59:46 <starshine> that's where I would have dragged you anyway :P
2007-09-04T01:59:52 <dreimark> We have done 6000 miles. to visit lots of NPs
2007-09-04T02:00:47 <dreimark> arches, national bridges, bryce, zion, red stone canyon, capital reef, canyonsland, Monument valley, grand canyon
2007-09-04T02:01:02 <starshine> excellent
2007-09-04T02:01:14 <dreimark> yellowstone, little big horn
2007-09-04T02:01:21 <starshine> meteor crater?
2007-09-04T02:01:32 <dreimark> no, next time :)
2007-09-04T02:01:42 <starshine> sequoia?
2007-09-04T02:01:50 <starshine> oh you got yellowstone
2007-09-04T02:02:00 <dreimark> yeah, I missed that to list. General sherman tree
2007-09-04T02:02:09 <starshine> and the spider caves
2007-09-04T02:02:28 <starshine> try and line up for an extended tour instead of a short one
2007-09-04T02:02:30 <starshine> more info
2007-09-04T02:02:51 <dreimark> we have started to write a wiki about the trip
2007-09-04T02:02:56 <starshine> :D
2007-09-04T02:03:12 <dreimark> and to sort our images I ve done 2500
2007-09-04T02:03:32 <starshine> do you like the wilderness or only stay in the ranger-protected spaces?
2007-09-04T02:03:51 <starshine> bah that reminds me I have hundreds of pics to sort
2007-09-04T02:04:02 <starshine> I went on a trip with friends recently
2007-09-04T02:04:16 <starshine> "ooh give us pics" so I uploaded the batch as a big ball
2007-09-04T02:04:26 <starshine> "omg 700 pics!!?!"
2007-09-04T02:04:38 <starshine> aw well some are blurry, ok to toast..
2007-09-04T02:04:43 <starshine> "700 pics?!?"
2007-09-04T02:04:45 <starshine> ok ok
2007-09-04T02:04:59 <starshine> I'll pick a few less ;>
2007-09-04T02:05:16 <dreimark> some of our images are at http://picasaweb.google.com/lars2008/
2007-09-04T02:05:48 <starshine> :D
2007-09-04T02:06:15 <dreimark> the delicated arch trail was very nice.
2007-09-04T02:06:48 <dreimark> And its very good prepared you do see that arch only at the end of the trail
2007-09-04T02:07:04 <starshine> hehe
2007-09-04T02:07:44 * starshine imagines moin logo over grand canyon :)
2007-09-04T02:09:32 <starshine> ThomasWaldmann: you like museums or wilderness or what?
2007-09-04T02:11:05 <dreimark> wilderness is nice, but be carefull with bears http://picasaweb.google.com/lars2008/Fresno_Aug07/photo#5101015851778216946
2007-09-04T02:11:31 <dreimark> that was quite near
2007-09-04T02:11:54 <ThomasWaldmann> starshine: i liked the computer history museum and also the exploratorium
2007-09-04T02:12:29 <ThomasWaldmann> but this time i think we'll have some time for yellowstone, for example
2007-09-04T02:13:09 * ThomasWaldmann gives up for now with delta. i entered all again and get the same error again.
2007-09-04T02:13:23 <starshine> ok, that weekend is last weekend of month, my 4th sat meeting will not be then, so we can have fun
2007-09-04T02:13:24 <dreimark> Take care on skunks.
2007-09-04T02:14:11 <starshine> yellowstone is a long long drive, so if that's where we want to go we should plan using up the whole weekend.
2007-09-04T02:14:48 <dreimark> yeah from sfo to salt lake city its about 1200km
2007-09-04T02:15:03 <starshine> ~5h drive from where I'm at iirc
2007-09-04T02:15:09 <starshine> to yellowstone
2007-09-04T02:15:18 <starshine> salt lake would be dont bother, just fly
2007-09-04T02:16:44 <ThomasWaldmann> oops, this is really far away - i thought this was nearer
2007-09-04T02:17:08 <starshine> if you want to see forest Muir Woods is 12mi N of SF
2007-09-04T02:17:12 <starshine> muuuuch more reachable
2007-09-04T02:17:17 <dreimark> we were with Lars car so we have had to drive. But it was a bit funny too, our TomTom told 1007km to next the next crossing
2007-09-04T02:17:27 <starshine> and Monterey Bay is within 2h south
2007-09-04T02:17:36 <starshine> lol
2007-09-04T02:17:53 <starshine> "get on road, keep driving. 17h."
2007-09-04T02:18:09 <dreimark> and yosemite park is in a distance to reach too
2007-09-04T02:18:33 <starshine> oh excuse me
2007-09-04T02:18:41 <starshine> *yosemite* is with 4-5h
2007-09-04T02:18:43 <dreimark> starshine: that was the only trip we didnt stopped much until we reached a shell station
2007-09-04T02:18:48 <starshine> *yellowstone* is further.
2007-09-04T02:19:06 <dreimark> there we bought 4 new wheels
2007-09-04T02:19:12 <starshine> eep?
2007-09-04T02:19:27 <starshine> you ruined the tires?
2007-09-04T02:19:33 <dreimark> tires
2007-09-04T02:19:51 <dreimark> not wheels, they were nearly at the end
2007-09-04T02:19:59 <starshine> (wheels are the metal, tires are the rubber, each are expensive)
2007-09-04T02:20:26 <dreimark> it was only the tires they were not broken but they needed to be exchanged
2007-09-04T02:20:38 <starshine> oh you rotated the tires
2007-09-04T02:20:41 <starshine> yeah ok
2007-09-04T02:21:06 <starshine> same tires + different location on the car = new wear pattern
2007-09-04T02:21:40 <dreimark> we have seen lots of broken tires on the way.
2007-09-04T02:22:06 <starshine> flat tires are bad, getting stranded is no fun
2007-09-04T02:22:34 <starshine> let's see what other things are long-haul reachable
2007-09-04T02:22:38 <starshine> mjoave desert
2007-09-04T02:22:41 <starshine> napa valley
2007-09-04T02:22:59 <starshine> santa cruz is basically close haul in this sense
2007-09-04T02:23:05 <starshine> *mojave
2007-09-04T02:23:08 <dreimark> I think they should take the N1 at the pacific coast
2007-09-04T02:23:40 <starshine> PCH, hwy 1, yeah even just going to monterey or up to muir woods would see some of that
2007-09-04T02:24:34 <dreimark> sausalito was nice too
2007-09-04T02:24:59 <dreimark> from sfo by ferry
2007-09-04T02:25:04 <starshine> there are old woods up in hollister that aren't well known
2007-09-04T02:25:22 <starshine> mostly because it's big residence or churches or wineries
2007-09-04T02:25:35 <starshine> a friend of mine rides horses in the saratoga hills
2007-09-04T02:25:38 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: and if you do this ferry trip one should buy two tickets
2007-09-04T02:25:53 <starshine> hwy 35 is the forest-highway into SF instead of the big road
2007-09-04T02:26:10 <dreimark> because then you get a bottle of wine
2007-09-04T02:26:26 <ThomasWaldmann> %)
2007-09-04T02:26:43 * ThomasWaldmann drinks no wine
2007-09-04T02:26:49 <starshine> there are also hiking trails in this valley, I can easily get a book of them, and we don't have to travel hardly any to get to starting point
2007-09-04T02:27:31 <starshine> ThomasWaldmann: you favor what kinds of drinks? (or no alcohol, like me?)
2007-09-04T02:27:43 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: dont eat chicken wings
2007-09-04T02:28:28 <starshine> well whatever we can discuss tastes and allergies when you get here :)
2007-09-04T02:29:15 <starshine> hrm following weekend I run a netlounge at a small convention..
2007-09-04T02:29:35 <ThomasWaldmann> no alcohol. i like juices with water, tea or just water.
2007-09-04T02:30:00 <starshine> ok. I know an excellent tea shoppe :)
2007-09-04T02:30:42 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, I had to laugh when I found out that "schlep" is an english word. :)
2007-09-04T02:32:31 <starshine> english, the language that mugs other languages for pocket change :)
2007-09-04T02:33:07 <dreimark> good night
2007-09-04T02:33:13 <starshine> nn dreimark
2007-09-04T02:33:27 <ThomasWaldmann> gn dreimark
2007-09-04T02:42:54 <ThomasWaldmann> starshine: best is we continue talk about stuff when xorAxAx is also here.
2007-09-04T02:43:03 * ThomasWaldmann will sleep soon...
2007-09-04T02:45:26 <starshine> ThomasWaldmann: sounds good. sleep well
2007-09-04T08:56:19 <tic> *yawn*
2007-09-04T08:56:20 <tic> morning!
2007-09-04T10:12:16 <dreimark> moin
2007-09-04T11:32:15 <xorAxAx> moin
2007-09-04T11:35:35 <tic> moinmoin
2007-09-04T12:39:42 <dreimark> moin
2007-09-04T13:37:48 <DrFrasierCrane_> how do I pull changes from master branch to storage branch I'm working on locally?
2007-09-04T13:38:11 <DrFrasierCrane_> <- git newbie
2007-09-04T15:17:24 <vpv> DrFrasierCrane: hg pull http://hg.moinmo.in/moin/1.7/
2007-09-04T15:17:46 <vpv> and then hg update (or hg pull -u to do both at the same time)
2007-09-04T15:18:02 <DrFrasierCrane> crap
2007-09-04T15:18:06 <DrFrasierCrane> you use mercurial duh
2007-09-04T15:18:10 <vpv> you might also have to merge, depending on what changes you've done
2007-09-04T15:18:18 <DrFrasierCrane> I got confused again with other projects where they use git
2007-09-04T15:18:23 <DrFrasierCrane> ok thanks
2007-09-04T15:54:01 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: MMaster shows internal error 500
2007-09-04T16:20:25 <DrFrasierCrane> I am writing my own minimal request object and I get nearly all pages rendered with it, but statschart macro isn't working too good because data browser receives empty tuples table
2007-09-04T16:20:33 <DrFrasierCrane> and you do:
2007-09-04T16:20:34 <DrFrasierCrane> # add data
2007-09-04T16:20:34 <DrFrasierCrane> self.data.reset()
2007-09-04T16:20:34 <DrFrasierCrane> row = self.data.next()
2007-09-04T16:20:34 <DrFrasierCrane> filters = [None] * len(row)
2007-09-04T16:20:41 <DrFrasierCrane> TypeError: object of type 'NoneType' has no len()
2007-09-04T16:49:38 <DrFrasierCrane> agents.addRow((_('Others'), "%.2f" % (100*(sum-cnt_printed)/sum)))
2007-09-04T16:49:47 <DrFrasierCrane> ZeroDivisionError in useragents.py
2007-09-04T16:49:48 <DrFrasierCrane> eh
2007-09-04T17:47:41 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3080:c6fb3cc0871f 1.7-maninfo-vpv/MoinMoin/action/ManSource.py: Better location for the xsltproc command
2007-09-04T18:11:27 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3081:36ffc75ff62c 1.7-maninfo-vpv/MoinMoin/action/ManSource.py: remove one print
2007-09-04T18:11:28 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3082:eee9e0544208 1.7-maninfo-vpv/MoinMoin/action/ManDiff.py: a better todo
2007-09-04T18:11:29 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3083:751211298aba 1.7-maninfo-vpv/MoinMoin/ (action/ManSource.py script/import/manimport.py): Cosmetic fixes, remove some prints and unused code
2007-09-04T18:17:47 <grzywacz> moin
2007-09-04T18:38:08 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3084:cbb60818bcc8 1.7-maninfo-vpv/docs/CHANGES.maninfo: better CHANGES.maninfo
2007-09-04T18:38:09 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3085:448975564433 1.7-maninfo-vpv/manimportconf_example.py: Add manimportconf_example.py
2007-09-04T18:55:12 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3086:185ceab77c9b 1.7-maninfo-vpv/docs/CHANGES.maninfo: List unmerged patches in CHANGES.maninfo
2007-09-04T18:58:07 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3087:3c2ac67809e8 1.7-maninfo-vpv/manimportconf_example.py: Some improvements to manimportconf example
2007-09-04T19:14:50 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3088:a9e38f35dca1 1.7-maninfo-vpv/manimport-exclude-example.txt: Add an example exclude file
2007-09-04T19:26:30 <dreimark> moin grzywacz
2007-09-04T19:41:24 <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2007-09-04T19:52:21 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3089:6d641bfaffc9 1.7-maninfo-vpv/MoinMoin/script/import/manimport.py: Add addedpath config value, other cleanups
2007-09-04T19:52:22 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3090:6960acca9d08 1.7-maninfo-vpv/MoinMoin/script/import/manimport.py: Actually use the addedpath
2007-09-04T19:52:24 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3091:bad51487b783 1.7-maninfo-vpv/manimportconf_example.py: add addedpath to example config
2007-09-04T19:52:25 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3092:5043a1ea6bab 1.7-maninfo-vpv/MoinMoin/script/import/manimport.py: fix in excludes handling
2007-09-04T20:12:57 <DrFrasierCrane> ThomasWaldmann, is this on-topic here?
2007-09-04T20:13:56 <ThomasWaldmann> request object? yes.
2007-09-04T20:14:03 <DrFrasierCrane> ok
2007-09-04T20:15:03 <DrFrasierCrane> I'm testing it here: http://www.newton-wiki.org/trac/browser/newton/trunk/src/model/wiki/MoinMoinStorage.py - code is a mess for now but notice separate Req, Security, User and CacheClass objects - I'm trying to establish minimal needed request
2007-09-04T20:15:26 <DrFrasierCrane> in _update_cache I'm rendering all underlay pages with send_page
2007-09-04T20:15:37 <DrFrasierCrane> and I'm fixing all problems that occur
2007-09-04T20:15:59 <DrFrasierCrane> I conclude that Request and Page are pretty ugly
2007-09-04T20:17:04 <DrFrasierCrane> so I'm considering writing something like RequestManager and eliminating Page at all would be nice too
2007-09-04T20:17:10 <DrFrasierCrane> Item could be used instead
2007-09-04T20:17:29 <DrFrasierCrane> and my question is would you be interested in that kind of work?
2007-09-04T20:17:44 <DrFrasierCrane> because I can do some hacking for my Newton needs no problem
2007-09-04T20:17:57 <DrFrasierCrane> but when I'm here already I may as well contribute something useful to MM
2007-09-04T20:20:26 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3093:60a0938ea344 1.7-maninfo-vpv/MoinMoin/script/import/manimport.py: Add back printing of doclifter usage
2007-09-04T20:31:43 <ThomasWaldmann> DrFrasierCrane: what we need mid term is a new handling of rendering
2007-09-04T20:32:12 <ThomasWaldmann> currently it is just action show and show is send_page mostly
2007-09-04T20:32:39 <ThomasWaldmann> that needs to be different based on the mimetype of the rendered item
2007-09-04T20:35:23 <DrFrasierCrane> ok.. sorry I got to go, I plan to write my vision on my wiki in detail so I'll let you know when it's ready
2007-09-04T20:55:06 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3094:b1f7cb54c020 1.7-maninfo-vpv/docs/CHANGES.maninfo: describe addedpath in CHANGES.maninfo
2007-09-04T20:55:07 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3095:81465983c3c9 1.7-maninfo-vpv/README.maninfo: Add a short README.maninfo
2007-09-04T20:55:08 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3096:06120e1619db 1.7-maninfo-vpv/README.maninfo: Update README.maninfo a bit
2007-09-04T21:03:43 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3097:2261c7b99297 1.7-maninfo-vpv/MoinMoin/script/import/manimport.py: Add a except IOError to file copying in _save_original()
2007-09-04T21:07:57 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3098:a315a8e9fc73 1.7-maninfo-vpv/README.maninfo: Add a section about Python version compatibility
2007-09-04T21:14:30 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3099:e7b6f6bfe8a0 1.7-maninfo-vpv/MoinMoin/script/import/manimport.py: Add logging about the copy error
2007-09-04T22:14:46 <CIA-27> moin: Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> * 2796:feb3c6fca9d4 1.7/MoinMoin/ (action/info.py stats/hitcounts.py): hitcounts, action.info: bugfix for non existing page and special character in pagename
2007-09-04T22:18:06 <CIA-27> moin: Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> * 2797:2f8fa491a5c1 1.7/MoinMoin/action/info.py: action.info: PEP8 fixes
2007-09-04T22:25:39 <CIA-27> moin: Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> * 2147:47d229ad5e56 1.6/MoinMoin/ (action/info.py stats/hitcounts.py): hitcounts, action.info: bugfix for non existing page and special character in pagename
2007-09-04T22:25:41 <CIA-27> moin: Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> * 2148:1e83fe54dc7e 1.6/docs/CHANGES: CHANGES: added change of xmlrpc.putPage
2007-09-04T22:25:48 <CIA-27> moin: Ville-Pekka Vainio <vpivaini AT cs DOT helsinki DOT fi> * 3100:020b30a5114d 1.7-maninfo-vpv/README.maninfo: Update README.maninfo MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2007-09-04 (last edited 2007-10-29 19:13:47 by localhost)
