MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2008-01-09

2008-01-09T00:00:36  <ThomasWaldmann> (for some general object/obj hierarchy, there is also copy/deepcopy)
2008-01-09T00:01:02  <ThomasWaldmann> you can also use a list comprehension for cases where it is appropriate
2008-01-09T00:09:48  <cb22> no ways. something is wrong here. i coded something and it actually worked. wtf :D
2008-01-09T00:10:04  * cb22 sets mode +happy cb22
2008-01-09T00:10:11  <ThomasWaldmann> :D
2008-01-09T00:10:26  <ThomasWaldmann> python makes you happy :)
2008-01-09T00:10:47  <cb22> indeed :) dump.py / DumpPages now has recursion capabilities :)
2008-01-09T00:10:47  <ThomasWaldmann> how about some javascript :P
2008-01-09T00:10:57  * cb22 sets mode -happy cb22
2008-01-09T00:11:12  <cb22> ^^ you mentioned javascript :/
2008-01-09T00:11:35  <TheSheep> javascript feels a lot like python once you get to know it and forget about the clumsy syntax
2008-01-09T00:11:41  <xorAxAx> javascript is nice as long as no browser is involved or you dont have to look at the grammar
2008-01-09T00:11:53  <cb22> so now, one can specifiy dump.py --recurse=5 ... and it will give you 5 levels of pages
2008-01-09T00:12:00  <TheSheep> of course, browser's APIs are horrible, but that's a different thing
2008-01-09T00:12:49  <cb22> TheSheep: i've used javascript before, quite a bit, enough to make a ajax'ed drupal. i dont know how long you've used it for, but it must have been a HELL of a long time to make it look like python
2008-01-09T00:13:13  <cb22> either that or your were drunk/high/been coding in python for too long
2008-01-09T00:13:59  <TheSheep> cb22: it has a similar type system to python's
2008-01-09T00:14:34  * cb22 hugs his mandatory whitespace
2008-01-09T00:14:54  <xorAxAx> TheSheep: except that it is a prototype based classless one :-)
2008-01-09T00:15:02  <xorAxAx> which is pretty much different from pythons
2008-01-09T00:16:20  <TheSheep> xorAxAx: feels similar to me
2008-01-09T00:16:58  <xorAxAx> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype-based_programming
2008-01-09T00:17:09  <TheSheep> I know the difference
2008-01-09T00:17:14  <TheSheep> but in practice...
2008-01-09T00:17:52  <cb22> TheSheep: besides, you cant import this on javscript :)
2008-01-09T00:18:27  <TheSheep> true
2008-01-09T00:18:32  <xorAxAx> lua is a nice language, i think
2008-01-09T00:18:35  <TheSheep> and beatiful is not better than ugly
2008-01-09T00:18:45  <xorAxAx> compared to its size
2008-01-09T00:18:58  <cb22> TheSheep: when choosing a girlfriend it is
2008-01-09T00:19:01  <TheSheep> if anybody mentions haskell...
2008-01-09T00:19:10  <cb22> see, python comes with life lessons included
2008-01-09T00:19:26  <TheSheep> cb22: I wouldn't want to spend a life with a girlfriend chosed for looks...
2008-01-09T00:19:28  <xorAxAx> cb22: of course this depends on how you define beauty :)
2008-01-09T00:19:39  <TheSheep> chosen
2008-01-09T00:19:47  <cb22> xorAxAx: yeah, lua is pretty popular on the psp
2008-01-09T00:19:57  <cb22> (due to size, memory usage, etc)
2008-01-09T00:19:59  <xorAxAx> TheSheep: you are a mathematician, you must love haskell for its correctness :)
2008-01-09T00:20:13  <xorAxAx> cb22: yes, its currently being integrated into warzone
2008-01-09T00:20:15  <xorAxAx> 2100
2008-01-09T00:20:20  <TheSheep> xorAxAx: actually I don't really know it
2008-01-09T00:20:22  <xorAxAx> a game where players have to fight for oil
2008-01-09T00:20:37  <cb22> TheSheep, xorAxAx: hotness, personality, avalablity. choose 2 :/
2008-01-09T00:20:39  <TheSheep> 3d rts
2008-01-09T00:20:42  <TheSheep> yuck
2008-01-09T00:20:59  <xorAxAx> TheSheep: pretty nice, much better handable than tiberian sun from a usability point of view
2008-01-09T00:21:01  <cb22> xorAxAx: hmm, i would move the 00 to the left and make reference to america
2008-01-09T00:21:14  <xorAxAx> you can change your camera angle in all directions
2008-01-09T00:21:15  <TheSheep> xorAxAx: my experience ends at Dune 2
2008-01-09T00:21:39  <xorAxAx> heh
2008-01-09T00:22:05  <cb22> although python is also pretty popular. afaik bf2 and civ4 use it
2008-01-09T00:22:19  <TheSheep> cb22: lua is good for data
2008-01-09T00:22:37  <TheSheep> cb22: and for simple behavior scripts
2008-01-09T00:22:55  <xorAxAx> and its fast as well
2008-01-09T00:23:04  <xorAxAx> because of the smaller semantics
2008-01-09T00:23:42  <cb22> seriously though, none of these languages, including python, has anything on LOLCODE ;)
2008-01-09T00:23:44  <TheSheep> well, more elaborate semantics allow you to express yourself more precisely, which in turn should theoretically allow better optimization
2008-01-09T00:24:14  <xorAxAx> cb22: http://www.dalkescientific.com/writings/diary/archive/2007/06/01/lolpython.html
2008-01-09T00:24:16  <TheSheep> but python compilers don't really optimize the code too much
2008-01-09T00:24:26  <xorAxAx> TheSheep: ?
2008-01-09T00:24:31  <cb22> shedskin is pretty cool
2008-01-09T00:24:36  <xorAxAx> cb22: no, its not
2008-01-09T00:24:43  <xorAxAx> TheSheep: they do nearly most of what they can
2008-01-09T00:24:48  <cb22> xorAxAx: hahaha
2008-01-09T00:25:03  <cb22> xorAxAx: howcome?
2008-01-09T00:25:35  <TheSheep> xorAxAx: ah, but that's introspection and dynamic features that's stopping them
2008-01-09T00:25:46  <ThomasWaldmann> http://moinmo.in/EasyToDo/UpdateFckEditor < comments
2008-01-09T00:25:47  <xorAxAx> cb22: the guy claimed that he is faster than pypy
2008-01-09T00:25:54  <xorAxAx> cb22: he was much slower back then, though
2008-01-09T00:25:59  <xorAxAx> and still is, i think
2008-01-09T00:26:01  <TheSheep> xorAxAx: two features responsible for rapid development of programming tools, rather than actual applications
2008-01-09T00:26:21  <xorAxAx> TheSheep: well, essential parts of the language semantics :)
2008-01-09T00:26:28  <xorAxAx> TheSheep: if you take them away, you get rpython :-)
2008-01-09T00:26:35  <TheSheep> lol
2008-01-09T00:26:54  <cb22> xorAxAx: hmm? shedskin converts simplish python code to c++?
2008-01-09T00:27:24  <xorAxAx> cb22: yes, and pypy has a translation framework that converts rpython to a lot of languages or platforms
2008-01-09T00:27:25  <cb22> on an ultra simple test it is a lot faster then normal python
2008-01-09T00:27:46  <xorAxAx> cb22: and he thought about competing with pypy without doing a single benchmark on the pypy side
2008-01-09T00:27:47  <cb22> but pypy is another project tagged with ultracool in my brain
2008-01-09T00:27:54  <TheSheep> there is even a pyhton->js conversion :)
2008-01-09T00:28:12  <TheSheep> you should rewrite fckedit in pypy ;)
2008-01-09T00:28:54  <cb22> xorAxAx: i dont really understand it though, how can python written in python be faster then python written in c?
2008-01-09T00:29:35  <TheSheep> cb22: it's like 100x slower than CPython :)
2008-01-09T00:29:50  <xorAxAx> TheSheep: no, its even a few  percent faster
2008-01-09T00:29:54  <xorAxAx> on some tests
2008-01-09T00:30:12  <xorAxAx> and for usual apps, its about 4 times slower
2008-01-09T00:30:12  <TheSheep> xorAxAx: you mean rpython?
2008-01-09T00:30:19  <xorAxAx> no, the pypy interpreter
2008-01-09T00:30:26  <TheSheep> hmm
2008-01-09T00:30:34  <TheSheep> I need to look closer at it some time
2008-01-09T00:30:54  <xorAxAx> cb22: thats a good question, the real answer is "with some jit thats still underway"
2008-01-09T00:31:34  <TheSheep> jit is scary
2008-01-09T00:31:49  <xorAxAx> well, the nice thing is that pypy is generating the jit compiler for your
2008-01-09T00:32:04  <xorAxAx> and you dont have to do that yourself :)
2008-01-09T00:32:13  <TheSheep> it's still scary
2008-01-09T00:32:18  <TheSheep> like the caching code in moin
2008-01-09T00:32:24  <xorAxAx> no
2008-01-09T00:33:39  <cb22> TheSheep: i agree, the caching code in moin terrorfies me
2008-01-09T00:33:54  <xorAxAx> which part of it? :-)
2008-01-09T00:33:59  <TheSheep> it's magic :)
2008-01-09T00:35:32  <TheSheep> it's nice to have intorspection and metaprogramming and all, but once you start using it in the actual code, it gets hard to follow
2008-01-09T00:35:39  <TheSheep> introspection
2008-01-09T00:35:43  <TheSheep> difficult word
2008-01-09T00:35:58  <xorAxAx> well, if you abstract it away ... :-)
2008-01-09T00:37:05  <TheSheep> #define i11n introspection
2008-01-09T00:37:16  <TheSheep> much better :)
2008-01-09T00:41:22  * cb22 writes a mini storage class to kill the two different create_zip and crete_dir functions that share 80% code
2008-01-09T00:45:06  <TheSheep> xorAxAx: I will fill in the plugin lists for the easytodo tasks tomorrow, sorry
2008-01-09T00:45:06  <TheSheep> good night
2008-01-09T00:45:11  <cb22> night TheSheep
2008-01-09T00:45:12  <dreimark> EasyToDo/CssCodeforActionMacro <- comments
2008-01-09T00:45:17  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: 0.5h?
2008-01-09T00:45:21  <cb22> KTHX
2008-01-09T00:45:21  <cb22>    VISIBLE VAR
2008-01-09T00:45:21  <cb22> IM OUTTA YR LOOP
2008-01-09T00:45:29  <cb22> sorry
2008-01-09T00:45:47  <cb22> (dodgy touchpad)
2008-01-09T00:46:06  <ThomasWaldmann> interesting touchpad :D
2008-01-09T00:46:58  <dreimark> night TheSheep
2008-01-09T00:47:20  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: depends who takes the task
2008-01-09T00:47:29  <xorAxAx> TheSheep: good night, anybody else could do it as well :)
2008-01-09T00:47:56  <xorAxAx> good night cb22
2008-01-09T00:48:09  <ThomasWaldmann> well, i guess it is about adding css_class='foo' to the code and a few lines of css duplicated 3 times
2008-01-09T00:49:23  <cb22> xorAxAx: huh? im not going anywhere, its only 1:48 :)
2008-01-09T00:49:28  <dreimark> we have had already some bug fixes of this kind of category
2008-01-09T00:49:42  <ThomasWaldmann> in case of a bug it is additionally finding the bug
2008-01-09T00:49:50  <xorAxAx> cb22: your paste confused me :)
2008-01-09T00:52:32  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: e.g. ShowAclIndicator but you never know who did the task
2008-01-09T00:53:08  <cb22> hmm, i think something weird is going on tonight. it seems i'm writing code that is working. my mini storage class actually works :)
2008-01-09T00:53:44  <TheSheep> you broke python
2008-01-09T00:55:25  <dreimark> good night
2008-01-09T00:55:30  <cb22> night dreimark
2008-01-09T01:00:42  <ThomasWaldmann> gn dreimark
2008-01-09T01:10:22  <ThomasWaldmann> http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/08/1920215
2008-01-09T01:18:02  * cb22 runs the perl script
2008-01-09T01:25:42  <ThomasWaldmann> hehe
2008-01-09T01:36:33  <YoniWiz> ThomasWaldmann: lol thats a funny story
2008-01-09T01:45:41  * ThomasWaldmann would laugh if they go bankcrupt
2008-01-09T01:57:29  <cb22> xorAxAx: yay :) recursion fully works
2008-01-09T01:57:39  <cb22> to as many levels as you want
2008-01-09T01:58:43  <cb22> and i've made a storage class, which handles the actual storage, so there is no longer a create_dir and create_zip, mearly a create(format=dir/zip) :D
2008-01-09T02:33:23  <cb22>  gn all
2008-01-09T02:38:36  <ThomasWaldmann> gn cb22
2008-01-09T02:38:44  * ThomasWaldmann updated SF
2008-01-09T02:41:10  <ThomasWaldmann> cb22: http://www.ohloh.net/projects/4439?p=MoinMoin south africa is missing :)
2008-01-09T08:55:48  <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2008-01-09T10:15:23  <cb22> moin
2008-01-09T10:15:42  <cb22> ThomasWaldmann: didnt sleep much?
2008-01-09T10:43:08  <dreimark> moin
2008-01-09T11:38:21  * xorAxAx does a google import
2008-01-09T11:41:46  <xorAxAx> we have 6 new tasks but may only push 3 additional ones
2008-01-09T11:41:56  <xorAxAx> so i remove a few language tasks now
2008-01-09T11:48:25  <xorAxAx> ok, we have 6 new tasks!
2008-01-09T13:03:23  * cb22 updates #98
2008-01-09T13:35:46  <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: if we run out of tasks, we could request some more from google
2008-01-09T13:36:19  <ThomasWaldmann> (tasks not done don't cost money, so it shouldn't matter if we keep the language tasks just for the case...)
2008-01-09T13:38:22  <xorAxAx> the latter claim needs acknowledgment from leslie
2008-01-09T13:38:35  <xorAxAx> so if you want to go down that route, please ask on the mailinglist
2008-01-09T13:40:07  <cb22> more cool code tasks ftw :)
2008-01-09T13:45:22  <dreimark> xorAxAx: issue 99, You have to implement
2008-01-09T13:45:24  <dreimark> some icons
2008-01-09T13:45:43  <dreimark> is completly missing. if we don't want icons there it is ok with me
2008-01-09T13:46:14  <dreimark> I will test the patch in an hour
2008-01-09T13:46:49  <xorAxAx> dreimark: ok, good point, write that in a comment
2008-01-09T13:48:11  <dreimark> I did already comment 11, but it was ignored. I will do it again
2008-01-09T13:48:30  <xorAxAx> hehe, fun with google apps? :)
2008-01-09T13:49:06  <dreimark> no, the coder ignored the comment
2008-01-09T13:49:22  <xorAxAx> ah
2008-01-09T13:49:48  <xorAxAx> maybe he didnt understand it
2008-01-09T14:37:51  <dreimark> hehe, some rights are absurd: admin without write
2008-01-09T15:53:14  <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: http://moinmo.in/EasyToDo/UpdateFckEditor reduced to 18d, should be ok?
2008-01-09T15:53:54  <kikka> moin
2008-01-09T15:55:12  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: well, i mean generally ... not sure if pupils would claim such a task, but we can try
2008-01-09T15:55:39  <ThomasWaldmann> if someone is a good js hacker, it could be easy, I don't know
2008-01-09T15:56:55  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe we should add "get famous as the one who updated moin's FCKeditor" :D
2008-01-09T16:01:13  <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: check the task again
2008-01-09T16:09:08  * ThomasWaldmann asked for more tasks
2008-01-09T16:15:59  <cb22> xorAxAx: could you please have a look at #98 when you get a chance
2008-01-09T16:17:47  <xorAxAx> yes
2008-01-09T16:50:12  * dreimark goes soon to cologne
2008-01-09T17:24:34  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: your moin talk today? :)
2008-01-09T17:40:54  <CIA-35> moin: Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 2495:7d0f0cd4aae4 1.6/MoinMoin/script/migration/_conv160.py: 1.6 mig script: just skip corrupted event log lines
2008-01-09T17:46:00  <ThomasWaldmann> leslie is OK with us going up to 150.
2008-01-09T17:46:43  <xorAxAx> did you specifically ask for 150 or was that her suggestion?
2008-01-09T17:46:59  <xorAxAx> ah, you did, ok
2008-01-09T17:47:05  * xorAxAx restores the 3 tasks again
2008-01-09T17:47:32  <ThomasWaldmann> well never reach that anyway, nor go beyond 102 completed tasks
2008-01-09T17:48:22  <xorAxAx> yeah
2008-01-09T17:48:36  <xorAxAx> but we still seem to perform better than the asf
2008-01-09T17:57:29  * ThomasWaldmann hopes someone cleans up galician
2008-01-09T17:57:44  <ThomasWaldmann> http://master.moinmo.in/MoinI18n-gl.po
2008-01-09T17:57:49  <ThomasWaldmann> http://master.moinmo.in/MoinI18n/gl
2008-01-09T22:17:09  <xorAxAx> looks like the presentation's draft that i need for tomorrow needs a bit of work and i wont do the review of cb22's code today
2008-01-09T22:40:10  <ThomasWaldmann> cb22: looks like an indentation problem:
2008-01-09T22:40:12  <ThomasWaldmann> +            for pagename in static_todo:
2008-01-09T22:40:13  <ThomasWaldmann> +                    completed.append(pagename)
2008-01-09T22:42:12  <ThomasWaldmann> nessacery < !
2008-01-09T22:43:13  <ThomasWaldmann> +        for rattr in ["custom_attach", "custom_link_prefix", "custom_link_suffix"
2008-01-09T22:43:17  <ThomasWaldmann> +                     "custom_link_encode"]:
2008-01-09T22:43:20  <ThomasWaldmann> this is a mean one
2008-01-09T22:43:43  <ThomasWaldmann> +            if hasattr(request, rattr): delattr(request, rattr)   < 2 lines please