2008-06-04T08:37:50 <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2008-06-04T08:52:29 <TheSheep> moin moin
2008-06-04T09:25:19 <zenhase> moin
2008-06-04T09:26:26 <zenhase> i need to work on this presentation all day today, tomorrow at 1700 it's finally over, then i can catch up on moin over the weekend
2008-06-04T09:26:43 <xorAxAx> friday is the weekend? :)
2008-06-04T09:26:51 <zenhase> and saturday and sunday
2008-06-04T09:26:56 <zenhase> :P
2008-06-04T09:27:39 <xorAxAx> "Der Begriff Wochenende (abgekürzt WE) bezeichnet im allgemeinen den Samstag bzw. Sonnabend sowie Sonntag. " :-)
2008-06-04T09:27:48 <zenhase> hrhr ok
2008-06-04T09:28:29 <zenhase> let's say i catch up from thursday afternoon until sunday (not continously of course ;D)
2008-06-04T09:29:24 <zenhase> which also reminds me of something:
2008-06-04T09:30:01 <zenhase> mitsuhiko: i would like to have a little chat with you tomorrow, sometime after my presentation
2008-06-04T09:30:13 <mitsuhiko> sure
2008-06-04T09:30:22 <zenhase> mitsuhiko: i would like to take a look at the first experiments and look where to go from there
2008-06-04T09:30:40 <xorAxAx> byeongweon: hi, how is your progress?
2008-06-04T09:31:34 <zenhase> uaaah ... what's with all those clouds ... and weather report even shows clouds with lightning and raindrops :'(
2008-06-04T09:32:00 <TheSheep> and the raindrops are the size of cities in that report O.o
2008-06-04T09:32:30 <xorAxAx> zenhase: here we will have a rock festival tomorrow evening at the uni and there is supposed to be no rain :)
2008-06-04T09:32:33 <zenhase> TheSheep: should we be afraid?
2008-06-04T09:32:44 <TheSheep> zenhase: doesn't look too good
2008-06-04T09:32:51 <johill> xorAxAx: no rain? yeah... even if, it'll be all mud after this night
2008-06-04T09:32:53 <zenhase> xorAxAx: we had one on friday and saturday
2008-06-04T09:33:34 <zenhase> xorAxAx: 30 years of AKK ... it rained on friday when the first band started ... but afterwards it was totally crowded
2008-06-04T09:34:02 <xorAxAx> zenhase: we will have wir sind helden :)
2008-06-04T09:34:10 <xorAxAx> johill: yeah, 5% chance of rain
2008-06-04T09:34:13 <zenhase> xorAxAx: nice
2008-06-04T09:34:25 <zenhase> xorAxAx: any entry fee?
2008-06-04T09:34:27 <xorAxAx> zenhase: and others http://www.das-sommerfestival.de/programm.html
2008-06-04T09:34:28 <xorAxAx> 12 EUR
2008-06-04T09:34:34 <zenhase> ah ok
2008-06-04T09:34:52 <zenhase> well, our summer festivals tend to be free of charge
2008-06-04T09:34:54 <xorAxAx> 22 bands
2008-06-04T09:34:58 <zenhase> so we don't get any big bands
2008-06-04T09:35:07 <zenhase> but nevertheless quite good ones
2008-06-04T09:35:32 <zenhase> on saturday a band named 'grosstadtgefluester' played
2008-06-04T09:36:17 <zenhase> awesome band from berlin ... kind of electro-punk-clash
2008-06-04T09:37:19 <zenhase> uh ... clueso is playing at your festival :o
2008-06-04T09:38:35 <xorAxAx> großstadtgeflüster sounds nice ... the small bands at our festival arent very good IMHO :_(
2008-06-04T09:39:29 <zenhase> http://www.akk.org/30JahreAKK/
2008-06-04T09:42:40 <xorAxAx> lol, "rockpoppunk nud rockpunkpop"
2008-06-04T09:43:26 <xorAxAx> zenhase: well, here they only book small metal and other trash bands because the students who prefer rock wouldnt digest anything else ... punk is way off the average taste i would say :-)
2008-06-04T09:44:09 <TheSheep> xorAxAx: even for students?
2008-06-04T09:45:09 <xorAxAx> TheSheep: yes
2008-06-04T09:45:55 <xorAxAx> TheSheep: paderborn is the only district in germany where there is no single medic who offers abortions
2008-06-04T09:47:05 * TheSheep just assumes that it's related somehow
2008-06-04T09:47:16 <xorAxAx> it certainly is :-)
2008-06-04T09:48:19 <TheSheep> if you say so
2008-06-04T09:48:37 <zenhase> oO
2008-06-04T09:49:11 <xorAxAx> my experience is that fans of certain genres often correlate with conservative social views :-)
2008-06-04T09:49:35 <zenhase> xorAxAx: well, i think the AKK has quite a history of punk rock to it
2008-06-04T09:49:39 <xorAxAx> s/views/points of view/
2008-06-04T09:51:12 <TheSheep> punk is conservative?
2008-06-04T09:51:15 <xorAxAx> zenhase: yes, and not many venues or groups in pb have :)
2008-06-04T09:51:18 <zenhase> i think it's one of the last few fortresses of alternative thinking in karlsruhe
2008-06-04T09:51:18 <xorAxAx> TheSheep: not at all
2008-06-04T09:51:57 <zenhase> and the people managing it defend it ;)
2008-06-04T09:53:10 <zenhase> it's funny to see people in their mid-40s with regular jobs (or perhaps even not THAT regular) working together with students to make it the coolest place on campus
2008-06-04T11:27:22 <CIA-50> bastian@shockwave.waldi.eu.org default * 3643:df9dc8fca57e 1.8-dom-bblank/MoinMoin/util/namespaces.py:
2008-06-04T11:27:22 <CIA-50> Add definitions of own and well known (xml) namespaces.
2008-06-04T11:27:22 <CIA-50> MoinMoin/util/namespaces.py
2008-06-04T11:27:22 <CIA-50> - Add namespace "http://moinmo.in/namespaces/page".
2008-06-04T11:27:22 <CIA-50> - Add well known namespaces dc, html and xlink.
2008-06-04T11:27:26 <CIA-50> bastian@shockwave.waldi.eu.org default * 3644:928bffd79661 1.8-dom-bblank/MoinMoin/converter2/ (__init__.py _tests/test_html_out.py html_out.py):
2008-06-04T11:27:29 <CIA-50> Add skeleton for html output converter.
2008-06-04T11:27:31 <CIA-50> * MoinMoin/converter2/__init__.py: Add.
2008-06-04T11:27:33 <CIA-50> * MoinMoin/converter2/html_out.py: Add skeleton classes.
2008-06-04T11:27:35 <CIA-50> * MoinMoin/converter2/_tests/test_html_out.py: Add.
2008-06-04T11:32:26 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 3662:6bd61e4063e3 1.7/MoinMoin/macro/ (FootNote.py _tests/test_FootNote.py): macro.FootNote: reverted changeset 3243 1ad6243cdf06, fixed test
2008-06-04T11:33:13 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 49:83078930ae66 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/ (action/arnica_slides.py parser/text_x_arnica.py): introduction of the argument parser
2008-06-04T11:33:13 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 50:6122e5bb9332 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica: moved description of keywords to macro_arnica
2008-06-04T11:52:21 <ThomasWaldmann> TheSheep: i have an idea for (1.8) themes
2008-06-04T11:52:39 <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: yes?
2008-06-04T11:52:57 <ThomasWaldmann> how about having an optional dict of theme objects in cfg?
2008-06-04T11:53:04 <ThomasWaldmann> e.g.
2008-06-04T11:53:06 <ThomasWaldmann> {
2008-06-04T11:53:30 <TheSheep> so that you can install more themes, but only let users select some of them?
2008-06-04T11:53:33 <ThomasWaldmann> 'modern': ModernTheme(param1=foo, param2=bar),
2008-06-04T11:53:34 <ThomasWaldmann> ...
2008-06-04T11:53:36 <ThomasWaldmann> }
2008-06-04T11:53:42 <TheSheep> aah, per-theme config!
2008-06-04T11:53:44 <TheSheep> neat!
2008-06-04T11:53:55 <ThomasWaldmann> like auth is now
2008-06-04T11:54:34 <ThomasWaldmann> and it could be compatible for themes not listed there, just create the theme class as it does now if there isn't a ready to use theme object in that dict
2008-06-04T11:54:41 * TheSheep staggers as the countless possibilities hit his imagination
2008-06-04T11:55:34 <ThomasWaldmann> there could be e.g. a param cmslike=boolean for themes that can hid their wikiness for not logged in users
2008-06-04T11:56:37 <TheSheep> I'd rather go for show_actions=False, show_login=False
2008-06-04T11:56:41 <TheSheep> but yeah
2008-06-04T11:58:53 <TheSheep> you would have to explicitly import the theme modules, right?
2008-06-04T11:59:02 <ThomasWaldmann> some stuff that is currently directly in cfg could mode into a theme_default_args dict
2008-06-04T11:59:26 <ThomasWaldmann> yes (otherwise there would be just the compat behaviour)
2008-06-04T12:00:13 <ThomasWaldmann> s/mode/move/
2008-06-04T12:00:29 <TheSheep> I assume you can't mix them, that is, if the theme divct is defined the compat behaviour is disabled?
2008-06-04T12:01:11 <ThomasWaldmann> if the theme dict has no key for the theme requested, it tries compat behaviour
2008-06-04T12:01:27 <TheSheep> where does it take the list of themes from then?
2008-06-04T12:02:23 <TheSheep> ls the data/themes like now?
2008-06-04T12:02:38 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe like now
2008-06-04T12:03:19 <ThomasWaldmann> it could be also set(theme modules) + set(theme_dict.keys())
2008-06-04T12:06:12 <TheSheep> I'm also concerned about making the configuration more complicated
2008-06-04T12:13:56 <ThomasWaldmann> well, it would be optional
2008-06-04T12:14:05 <ThomasWaldmann> i guess i make a braindump wiki page :)
2008-06-04T12:16:18 <xorAxAx> johill: now the newest forecast says 70% chance of rain :)
2008-06-04T12:31:25 <ThomasWaldmann> http://moinmo.in/FeatureRequests/ThemeApi
2008-06-04T12:40:29 <ThomasWaldmann> gtg/bbl
2008-06-04T13:25:46 <ThomasWaldmann> waldi: could you edit your .hgrc please so that your changesets show your real name?
2008-06-04T13:26:07 <ThomasWaldmann> username = Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de>
2008-06-04T13:26:13 <ThomasWaldmann> like that
2008-06-04T13:26:35 <ThomasWaldmann> (you can also not obfuscate your email, of course)
2008-06-04T13:27:39 <waldi> ThomasWaldmann: yeah, already fixed
2008-06-04T13:27:41 <ThomasWaldmann> also please use _template.py when starting a new module
2008-06-04T13:28:08 <ThomasWaldmann> (esp. the docstring at the top explaining in some words what the module is about
2008-06-04T13:36:28 <ThomasWaldmann> waldi: that namespaces module, is that going to get much larger than now?
2008-06-04T13:43:55 <waldi> no
2008-06-04T13:44:22 <ThomasWaldmann> then it could be maybe part of another module
2008-06-04T13:44:37 <ThomasWaldmann> (we still have cgi users and every module load costs time :)
2008-06-04T14:14:28 <dreimark> moin
2008-06-04T14:21:28 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 51:37425f191cc5 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica.macro_arnica: bug fix return right order of values
2008-06-04T14:21:28 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 52:02f6a1e3acc3 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica: help keyword removed
2008-06-04T14:21:29 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 53:64c2bb702530 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica: filer renamed into file_regex
2008-06-04T14:21:30 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 54:5e9898574b01 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica: import of macro moved to _make_macro
2008-06-04T14:21:33 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 55:1eb0c987a260 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica: if the parser was called with a not defined parameter, print an error and return.
2008-06-04T14:42:32 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 56:d988ec9aa2f5 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica: removed not used parameter: width and border_thick
2008-06-04T14:42:32 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 57:7f56d8a670da 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica: some doc strings added
2008-06-04T15:02:02 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 58:4381f580a434 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica.macro_arnica: simplified
2008-06-04T15:02:03 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 59:3406d23a01f2 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica: Parser from text imported as text_Parser
2008-06-04T15:17:22 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 60:d88a6a086d04 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica.format: simplified if / else
2008-06-04T15:23:58 <johill> hm
2008-06-04T15:24:04 <johill> the duplicate mail bug seems to be fixed now
2008-06-04T15:44:53 <dennda> johill: I think I remember now what I wanted to ask you
2008-06-04T15:46:21 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 61:6ab80d79e924 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica.macro_arnica: much more simplified using locals()
2008-06-04T15:46:54 <dennda> johill: Lemme find what I wrote
2008-06-04T15:47:10 <dreimark> johill: the dummy macro function has only a definition list and return locals()
2008-06-04T15:56:01 <dennda> johill: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/57803/
2008-06-04T15:56:06 <dennda> I see the problems there
2008-06-04T15:56:23 <dennda> That's not a good way to prevent side-effects from happening
2008-06-04T15:56:43 <dennda> I could use some advice on how to do it else. Just use the locks from the threading module?
2008-06-04T16:52:45 <ThomasWaldmann> johill: who fixed it?
2008-06-04T17:34:57 <johill> ThomasWaldmann: dunno, it just seems to work after the upgrade, I guess you fixed it
2008-06-04T17:35:07 <johill> dennda: let me look
2008-06-04T17:35:25 <johill> dennda: no, threading module locks won't work, keep in mind cgi&forking
2008-06-04T17:35:59 <dennda> johill: I don't know CGI and forking. I assume CGI starts a whole new process every time? (As with forking)
2008-06-04T17:36:16 <johill> yeah
2008-06-04T17:36:31 <dennda> Ok that's not going to work then
2008-06-04T17:36:40 <johill> dennda: that 'read-locked'/'write-lcoked' can't be a metadata key as those are persistent, it has to be a separate property of the object
2008-06-04T17:40:17 <johill> dreimark: dummy macro? locals?
2008-06-04T17:40:36 <johill> dreimark: ah, in arnica? sorry, haven't been following that
2008-06-04T17:44:31 <dreimark> johill: http://hg.moinmo.in/moin/1.7-extensions/file/6ab80d79e924/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py
2008-06-04T17:45:57 <dreimark> gizmach: are you here ?
2008-06-04T17:47:16 <gizmach> dreimark: great , I'm going to try to write some code reading groups from ldap and try how it will work, just to get some better feeling of that
2008-06-04T17:47:25 <gizmach> dreimark: and it's raining and storm again
2008-06-04T17:49:07 <dreimark> no storm but we have rain here too.
2008-06-04T17:54:57 <dreimark> gizmach: please can you summarize on a wiki page or in the repo daily work
2008-06-04T17:55:24 <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: we have locking code in moin, please use it
2008-06-04T17:55:25 <xorAxAx> moon: ping
2008-06-04T17:55:33 <gizmach> dreimark: will do it in repo
2008-06-04T17:55:37 <moon> xorAxAx: hi
2008-06-04T17:55:39 <johill> dreimark: ah
2008-06-04T17:56:07 <xorAxAx> moon: how are you? :)
2008-06-04T17:56:12 <gizmach> dreimark: I planed it but I fall asleep yesterday and I didn't, will start from today
2008-06-04T17:56:16 <gizmach> promise
2008-06-04T17:56:17 <xorAxAx> you have been so silent in these days
2008-06-04T17:56:26 <dreimark> gizmach: ok :)
2008-06-04T17:56:33 <moon> xorAxAx: fine, and sleepy.
2008-06-04T17:57:06 <johill> dreimark: interesting use, maybe it would be better to abstract invoke_extension_function a bit
2008-06-04T17:57:08 <xorAxAx> moon: hehe ... i read that koreans dont have fixed sleeping patterns (like western geeks). is that true? :)
2008-06-04T17:57:21 <johill> ThomasWaldmann: I don't think dennda can use the locking code anywhere other than the fs backend
2008-06-04T17:58:01 <moon> xorAxAx: most koreans fixed, except me :-)
2008-06-04T17:58:15 <ThomasWaldmann> i guess you can use it anywhere you like until someone has something better
2008-06-04T17:58:15 <xorAxAx> hehe
2008-06-04T17:58:26 <moon> xorAxAx: I was visit google office in korea few hours ago
2008-06-04T17:58:26 <xorAxAx> moon: but korean streets are busy at night, arent they?
2008-06-04T17:58:34 <xorAxAx> cool, how was the trip?
2008-06-04T17:58:48 <moon> xorAxAx: yes, always.
2008-06-04T17:58:54 <ThomasWaldmann> moon: do they also have food/drinks for free? :)
2008-06-04T17:59:24 <xorAxAx> moon: and the people who are on the streets at night sleep at daytime?
2008-06-04T17:59:31 <moon> yes, they give us shushi and a lot kind of foods
2008-06-04T17:59:39 <xorAxAx> cool
2008-06-04T17:59:59 <xorAxAx> do they have technicians there as well or only sales men?
2008-06-04T18:00:05 <moon> usually, most people sleep at 10pm or 12pm
2008-06-04T18:00:23 <moon> but many young people doesn't
2008-06-04T18:00:27 <ThomasWaldmann> except the geeks, right? :)
2008-06-04T18:01:22 <moon> to tell the truth, in korea most street
2008-06-04T18:01:51 <moon> popular place is busy at night
2008-06-04T18:02:17 <moon> many people get out and have some drink or meet other people
2008-06-04T18:02:41 <moon> it's very common here. isn't there?
2008-06-04T18:05:34 <xorAxAx> moon: no
2008-06-04T18:06:01 <xorAxAx> moon: depending on the internationality of the city (and its size), people usually go only out on the weekend
2008-06-04T18:06:51 <xorAxAx> at least when they tend to stay later, they only do that on weekeends
2008-06-04T18:06:58 <moon> xorAxAx: most korean cities looks like new york. maybe.
2008-06-04T18:06:59 <xorAxAx> moon: now regarding your project ... how is the integration working out?
2008-06-04T18:07:48 <xorAxAx> moon: have you had success making the plugins work?
2008-06-04T18:07:56 <xorAxAx> please commit small changes so i can review those
2008-06-04T18:08:54 <moon> xorAxAx: yes, I can commit tommorow. in fact.
2008-06-04T18:09:39 <moon> xorAxAx: there's more difference between current version used in moinmoin and recent version fckeditor
2008-06-04T18:10:22 <moon> xorAxAx: so, I was fixing that difference these days,
2008-06-04T18:11:11 <moon> xorAxAx: so, I just modify only few source, anyway I will commit tommorow.
2008-06-04T18:11:13 <xorAxAx> yeah, would be nice if you could try to make single commits of every single changeset ... think about what goes together and commit that on its own. every changeset should work on its own and make sense when reading the differences
2008-06-04T18:11:40 <xorAxAx> thats important for code review and later analysis of modifications
2008-06-04T18:12:39 <xorAxAx> so if you changed the config and the plugins, it probably doesnt make sense to checkin both
2008-06-04T18:12:55 <xorAxAx> maybe johill has some website that explains how to partition ones changeset to ease the review work
2008-06-04T18:15:24 <ThomasWaldmann> moon: btw, if you find out what exactly that select plugin does, please add many comments :)
2008-06-04T18:15:30 <johill> no, I don't actually
2008-06-04T18:15:54 <moon> xorAxAx: ok, I understand, thanks a lot :-)
2008-06-04T18:15:58 <ThomasWaldmann> (would do no harm for the other plugins either)
2008-06-04T18:16:00 <johill> but surely I can dig out something for the kernel ;)
2008-06-04T18:16:45 <ThomasWaldmann> moon: and if you write english texts, always read them through a 2nd time to fix typos and other small mistakes.
2008-06-04T18:17:15 <xorAxAx> johill: yeah, moin has been full of linuslike culture in the last months, why not also the kernel ruleset for changesets? :)
2008-06-04T18:17:43 <ThomasWaldmann> linuslike culture?
2008-06-04T18:17:59 <xorAxAx> moon: increasing the amount of written english text (via irc) increases the english skills dramatically :-)
2008-06-04T18:18:08 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: linus torvalds, as opposed to alan cox :-)
2008-06-04T18:18:25 <moon> thanks for good advice. :-)
2008-06-04T18:18:29 <ThomasWaldmann> i know who you meant, but not what you meant
2008-06-04T18:18:46 <xorAxAx> well, just read what alan cox says about linus
2008-06-04T18:18:53 * xorAxAx -> unisport
2008-06-04T18:19:30 <johill> http://www.zip.com.au/~akpm/linux/patches/stuff/tpp.txt
2008-06-04T18:19:37 <johill> section 4
2008-06-04T18:19:45 <ThomasWaldmann> moon: i guess we all had most of our english practice on irc and web (slashdot.org, planetpython.org, ...)
2008-06-04T18:20:31 * johill lived in Canada for a year ;)
2008-06-04T18:20:45 <moon> ThomasWaldmann: It sounds good idea, I wll try that.
2008-06-04T18:22:31 <ThomasWaldmann> one also should not assume content in a commit comment (except that it is for moin :)
2008-06-04T18:23:03 <johill> ThomasWaldmann: hm?
2008-06-04T18:23:07 <ThomasWaldmann> e.g. if moon commits something to his repo, it is clear (for him) that it is about some javascript/fckeditor topic
2008-06-04T18:23:22 <ThomasWaldmann> but later, that stuff will get merged into main repo and so that context goes away
2008-06-04T18:23:49 <johill> ah
2008-06-04T18:23:54 <johill> you meant "context" not "content" :)
2008-06-04T18:24:10 <ThomasWaldmann> ehrm, yes :D
2008-06-04T18:24:18 <ThomasWaldmann> wrong finger :)
2008-06-04T18:24:34 <johill> oh and I tend to follow the "akpm rules" for the "subject" part too, putting it into the first line and then a blank line after that
2008-06-04T18:24:44 <johill> that way, the shortlog is usable
2008-06-04T18:25:24 <johill> (unlike if you just write stuff, the shortlog often cuts off at a half sentence)
2008-06-04T18:25:35 <johill> s/,/, then/
2008-06-04T18:26:57 <moon> I'm really sleepy now. everybody have a nice day.
2008-06-04T18:27:12 <moon> bye bye.
2008-06-04T18:27:15 <ThomasWaldmann> have a nice night :)
2008-06-04T18:29:04 <ThomasWaldmann> full moon vs. new moon :)
2008-06-04T18:39:58 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 62:23b9e0024ede 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/CHANGES_arnica: CHANGES: first notes
2008-06-04T18:41:13 * dreimark is listed currently on cia.vc because of less activity by others
2008-06-04T18:41:55 <johill> heh
2008-06-04T18:47:42 <gizmach> dreimark: poor
2008-06-04T18:51:35 <dreimark> IE works with the current arnica too :)
2008-06-04T18:54:35 <CIA-50> Bastian Blank <bblank@thinkmo.de> default * 3645:63e7aef06da0 1.8-dom-bblank/MoinMoin/converter2/ (_tests/test_html_out.py html_out.py): (log message trimmed)
2008-06-04T18:54:35 <CIA-50> Initial converter.
2008-06-04T18:54:35 <CIA-50> * MoinMoin/converter2/_tests/test_html_out.py
2008-06-04T18:54:35 <CIA-50> - Add doc.
2008-06-04T18:54:35 <CIA-50> - Add testcase.
2008-06-04T18:54:36 <CIA-50> * MoinMoin/converter2/html_out.py
2008-06-04T18:54:40 <CIA-50> - Update doc.
2008-06-04T18:56:34 <dreimark> gizmach: do you know http://cia.vc ?
2008-06-04T18:57:04 <gizmach> no I don't :(
2008-06-04T18:58:05 <dreimark> nice statistics who has where contributed.
2008-06-04T19:05:12 <gizmach> nice
2008-06-04T19:24:57 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 63:9301ca6f1e33 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica: fixed missing album title
2008-06-04T19:27:57 <johill> dennda: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/61822/
2008-06-04T19:29:54 <johill> actually
2008-06-04T19:30:12 <johill> dennda: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/61824/
2008-06-04T19:34:51 <dreimark> looks like the python book I was working on with lot's others is going to be printed (unfortunately only three pages about MM)
2008-06-04T19:41:44 <johill> :)
2008-06-04T19:43:57 <johill> dreimark: you don't have to pass [macro] to i_e_f
2008-06-04T19:44:08 <johill> and if you don't, you don't have to filter it out either, nor give it as the first arg
2008-06-04T19:44:40 <dreimark> cool
2008-06-04T19:45:42 <johill> also, sayign int(640) is a bit useless ;)
2008-06-04T19:47:01 <dreimark> true, probably it is the toasty weather
2008-06-04T19:47:19 <johill> and I think you want to abort processing if the settings are bad
2008-06-04T19:47:27 <johill> (i.e. in teh value error case)
2008-06-04T19:47:41 <johill> ah n/m, you do
2008-06-04T19:49:07 <dreimark> I am not lucky with this solution I have to break in format and have to set a signal to be able to do it
2008-06-04T19:49:25 <johill> yeah, just saw that
2008-06-04T19:49:36 <johill> well we should rework the parser API to include such things
2008-06-04T19:49:54 <johill> but that's hard because it's all done in the other parsers right now
2008-06-04T19:50:27 <johill> maybe waldi's work will help
2008-06-04T19:50:41 <johill> he might want to take that into account
2008-06-04T19:53:21 <dreimark> yes and meanwhile we can use it similiar as in arnica if one wants to use it
2008-06-04T19:53:23 <mmihaljevic> dreimark: what's the book's name
2008-06-04T19:54:03 <dreimark> python Grundlagen, fortgeschrittene Programmierung und Praxis (pyCologne logo)
2008-06-04T19:54:07 <dreimark> mmihaljevic:
2008-06-04T19:54:08 <johill> dreimark: yeah
2008-06-04T19:54:53 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 64:ea6139631185 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica: removed definition of _create_macro and usage from wikiutil.invoke_extension_function
2008-06-04T19:55:28 <dreimark> johill: I have added today a CHANGES with some of the differences to Gallery2
2008-06-04T19:55:36 <dreimark> (still not completed)
2008-06-04T19:55:46 <johill> let me look
2008-06-04T19:56:54 <johill> nice stuff
2008-06-04T20:00:14 <dreimark> :)
2008-06-04T20:14:25 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 65:4a0ef5c802c8 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/action/arnica_slides.py: arnica_slides: factored out send_cache_file
2008-06-04T20:33:19 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 66:7d866c4324f4 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/CHANGES_arnica: CHANGES_arnica: some more hints
2008-06-04T20:33:23 <CIA-50> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 67:e22ac6902d90 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/action/arnica_slides.py: arnica_slides.send_cache_file: fixed missing _ and docstrings
2008-06-04T20:39:34 <dennda> johill: ok, taking a look
2008-06-04T20:42:03 <dreimark> htg
2008-06-04T20:42:25 <dennda> johill: How can you be sure that excludes all side-effects?
2008-06-04T20:44:08 <dennda> Or, rephrasing the question, how did you approach the problem with thread-safety in mind? My naive solution had several flaws
2008-06-04T20:45:33 <johill> dennda: I punted it into the _lock/_unlock item method
2008-06-04T20:45:53 <dennda> Yes, I saw that
2008-06-04T20:46:46 <dennda> But this is still an example-implementation, isn't it?
2008-06-04T20:46:53 <dennda> This way it is not threadsafe at all imho
2008-06-04T20:47:20 <dennda> Because every process can create its own MyMeta obj and when that obj is initialized the locks are set to False
2008-06-04T20:47:20 <johill> the backend will have to implement locks
2008-06-04T20:47:29 <dennda> s/process/thread/
2008-06-04T20:48:36 <johill> well yes, and?
2008-06-04T20:48:43 <johill> they're all synced across the backend locks
2008-06-04T20:50:00 <johill> I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of the vars
2008-06-04T20:50:21 <johill> it's just to catch bugs, not for correctness
2008-06-04T20:53:33 <waldi> johill: what do you need for the parser?
2008-06-04T20:54:23 <dennda> johill: Yes, got that now
2008-06-04T20:54:29 <johill> waldi: dreimark probably knows better ;)
2008-06-04T20:54:45 <johill> waldi: he wants to have parser arguments, and use the same stuff as macros, i.e. wikiutil.invoke_extension_function
2008-06-04T20:55:01 <dennda> But actually I think that we don't need to inherit from UserDict.DictMixin if we only use __setitem__ and __getitem__
2008-06-04T20:55:35 <waldi> johill: hmm
2008-06-04T20:56:10 <johill> yeah true
2008-06-04T20:56:34 <dennda> Or is there anything else we need?
2008-06-04T20:56:57 <johill> well people will expect get, setdefault, ...
2008-06-04T20:57:27 <johill> probably iteration if only for debugging
2008-06-04T21:09:45 <dennda> johill: Do you feel setdefault is such a commonly used method?
2008-06-04T21:10:06 <johill> probably not, but now that I know about it I always find places where it could be used ;)
2008-06-04T21:10:15 <dennda> Hah
2008-06-04T21:10:21 <dennda> I didn't know it either up to now
2008-06-04T21:11:02 <dennda> But I agree that iteritems can be useful
2008-06-04T21:15:10 <johill> and at that point you might as well use dictmixin to get it all
2008-06-04T21:15:32 <dennda> johill: If we want Metadata to be directly accessible with myitem["name"] = "asd" then we need to put the whole code directly into the Item class, making a seperate MetaData class obsolete
2008-06-04T21:15:38 <dennda> or am I forgetting something?
2008-06-04T21:15:45 <johill> no, that's correct
2008-06-04T21:15:50 <dennda> ok
2008-06-04T21:21:52 <dennda> johill: The backend will take care of giving an Item access to the metadata in persistant storage, correct? self._metadata = {} in __init__ somehow sounds wrong :)
2008-06-04T21:22:57 <johill> actually, it should be loaded on teh first read acccess
2008-06-04T21:23:15 <johill> I think
2008-06-04T21:23:17 <dennda> lazy
2008-06-04T21:23:17 <dennda> sure
2008-06-04T21:23:20 <dennda> makes sense
2008-06-04T21:24:23 <dennda> Then we'll need another method on the backend class
2008-06-04T21:24:50 <johill> yeah but 90% of all item access won't need metadata
2008-06-04T21:24:58 <dennda> Yes
2008-06-04T21:25:06 <dennda> That's why lazy access makes sense
2008-06-04T21:25:28 <RaphaelBossek> hi all
2008-06-04T21:25:38 <dennda> But if we want the whole thing to be implementable with only defining one class that's inevitable
2008-06-04T21:26:08 <dennda> Hi RaphaelBossek
2008-06-04T21:26:13 <RaphaelBossek> working on ActionMarket/ActionPdf for 1.7 release together with python 2.5 but ...
2008-06-04T21:26:27 <RaphaelBossek> ... intent MoinMoin to support python 2.5 with 1.7 release ?
2008-06-04T21:27:53 <johill> RaphaelBossek: huh? 1.6 works fine with 2.5 here
2008-06-04T21:28:44 <johill> dennda: yeah, but since the metadata load has to be atomic most backends will need it anyway
2008-06-04T21:29:15 <johill> I mean, need an extra method
2008-06-04T21:29:32 <dennda> So we agree to agree, don't we
2008-06-04T21:29:32 <dennda> ?
2008-06-04T21:30:28 <johill> yes
2008-06-04T21:31:13 <dennda> sweetz
2008-06-04T21:31:21 * dennda needs a new keyboard
2008-06-04T21:44:58 <johill> dennda: so where are you at now?
2008-06-04T21:45:58 <dennda> What I am working on?
2008-06-04T21:47:11 <johill> yeah, and what's up next then?
2008-06-04T21:49:27 <dennda> At this very moment I am putting the metadata access things together
2008-06-04T21:49:35 <dennda> and writing docstrings for that
2008-06-04T21:49:50 <johill> :)
2008-06-04T21:50:22 <dennda> After that the Revision classes are the last thing we have to do for the API design
2008-06-04T21:50:58 <dennda> then one of the following: tests / memorybackend / making the FSB using the new API / making the above moin code use the new API
2008-06-04T21:51:29 <johill> sounds good
2008-06-04T21:52:08 <dennda> sounds like headache :)
2008-06-04T21:52:13 <dennda> just kidding
2008-06-04T21:52:41 <mitsuhiko> zenhase: how is it going?
2008-06-04T21:52:47 <johill> heh
2008-06-04T21:53:51 <zenhase> mitsuhiko: the preparation for my talk?
2008-06-04T21:54:12 <mitsuhiko> well. that too
2008-06-04T21:55:05 <dennda> wtf
2008-06-04T21:55:07 <dennda> err
2008-06-04T21:55:09 <dennda> wrong channel
2008-06-04T21:55:11 <zenhase> as said, i had to tweak on that the whole day and will catch up after i held it tomorrow afternoon
2008-06-04T21:55:25 <dennda> Which topic, zenhase?
2008-06-04T21:55:31 <zenhase> dennda: affective neuroscience
2008-06-04T21:55:41 <dennda> Doesn't ring a bell
2008-06-04T21:55:59 <zenhase> good one, pavlov plays a role too ;)
2008-06-04T21:56:09 <dennda> Yeah I know pavlov
2008-06-04T21:56:21 <zenhase> it's about emotion research on the human brain
2008-06-04T21:56:46 <zenhase> for a seminar at university which is called 'human - machine - emotion'
2008-06-04T21:57:15 <zenhase> i will give the first talk and introduce the other nerds into the emotional secrets of the human bio-computer ;)
2008-06-04T21:57:37 <dennda> "Oh don't hurt my toasters feelings!"
2008-06-04T21:57:42 <zenhase> mitsuhiko: regarding the code: have you had a look at what i commited over the last days?
2008-06-04T21:58:19 <mitsuhiko> i just started reading it
2008-06-04T21:58:55 <zenhase> i have currently two issues in mind, that need some thinking:
2008-06-04T21:59:40 <zenhase> 1) Splitting RequestBase.__init__ & RequestBase.run into a nicely structured WSGI app
2008-06-04T22:00:00 <zenhase> 2) How and where to create the different 'contexts'
2008-06-04T22:05:11 <TheSheep> zenhase: what are contexts?
2008-06-04T22:05:14 <zenhase> dennda: current slides are at http://bl0rg.net/~flowhase/slides.pdf ... but i guess they are not very informative on their own :o
2008-06-04T22:06:09 <zenhase> TheSheep: different aspects of what Request does now ... it's a step towards making request less of a god-object which does everything
2008-06-04T22:06:53 <dreimark> re
2008-06-04T22:07:01 <zenhase> so the render-stage get's a rendercontext, which only provides the functions/attributes which are needed for rendering ... for example
2008-06-04T22:08:38 <TheSheep> zenhase: are they passed in the request?
2008-06-04T22:08:49 <zenhase> nope, instead of the request
2008-06-04T22:09:00 <TheSheep> cool
2008-06-04T22:09:06 <zenhase> to legacy code they should act like request did
2008-06-04T22:09:23 <zenhase> but only in the domain they are meant for
2008-06-04T22:10:11 <zenhase> thing is, that somehow in the long run a solution should come up, howto keep the amount of state that needs passing around low
2008-06-04T22:11:01 <zenhase> so it isn't really necessary to pass all those request-objects/request-lookalikes down the callstack
2008-06-04T22:11:39 <zenhase> but for the meantime those contexts sound like a good idea to make all those aspects more manageable
2008-06-04T22:13:44 * zenhase is going insane from a song that won't leave his head
2008-06-04T22:13:58 <ThomasWaldmann> http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,557768,00.html (german). see news topic and advertisement at top... X)
2008-06-04T22:14:16 <dennda> johill: umm
2008-06-04T22:14:39 <dennda> johill: Didn't we say we wanted values to be arbitrary python objects? You now nailed it down to str, unicode and tuple
2008-06-04T22:14:51 <mmihaljevic> ThomasWaldmann: on which port is ldap opening while running test_ldap_login
2008-06-04T22:15:54 <johill> dennda: yeah but xorAxAx disagreed and I don't care much
2008-06-04T22:16:13 <johill> some code (acls) want lists, but tuples are better because theyre' immutable
2008-06-04T22:17:17 <dreimark> mmihaljevic: I think it is 3890
2008-06-04T22:17:28 <mmihaljevic> dreimark: ok then it's ok
2008-06-04T22:17:47 <ThomasWaldmann> yes
2008-06-04T22:18:25 <xorAxAx> dennda: well, basically you lose cheap indexing
2008-06-04T22:18:50 <dennda> xorAxAx: Could you elaborate on that?
2008-06-04T22:19:07 <xorAxAx> dennda: the storage system has an indexing subsystem, right?
2008-06-04T22:19:09 <johill> dennda: he doesn't like pickling and thinks it's better to pickle in the upper layers explicilty
2008-06-04T22:19:29 <johill> xorAxAx: yes, but if the storage layer knows the type of the item it should actually be able to index better, no?
2008-06-04T22:19:36 <johill> e.g. if the input is always an int
2008-06-04T22:19:41 <xorAxAx> johill: everybody could hand in any object
2008-06-04T22:19:55 <johill> yeah, so just pickle if it's not a type you can handle?
2008-06-04T22:19:56 <xorAxAx> the same is true for strings
2008-06-04T22:20:11 <xorAxAx> but in any case you need to make sure that the indexing system works
2008-06-04T22:20:11 <johill> yeah but if somebody then does pickle something, and you try to index that, that seems... stupid
2008-06-04T22:20:21 <xorAxAx> yeah, as well
2008-06-04T22:20:34 <xorAxAx> so think about the indexing issue first
2008-06-04T22:20:45 <xorAxAx> before deciding that. i guess that depends on the internal structure
2008-06-04T22:24:47 <johill> not sure it does
2008-06-04T22:24:55 <johill> I mean
2008-06-04T22:25:03 <johill> normally you can't really index automatically
2008-06-04T22:26:15 <johill> on the other hand, if it's always strings you at least have a fixed type, otherwiswe you have to think about what happens when you have to index mixed ints and strings (because some upper layer code is inconsistent)
2008-06-04T22:27:26 <xorAxAx> well, how did it (not) work before? :)
2008-06-04T22:28:34 <johill> pkey = unicode(key).encode("utf-8")
2008-06-04T22:28:57 <johill> and no actually enforced restrictions on the types, afaict
2008-06-04T22:34:35 <dennda> johill: self._item._lock() (in the code you posted) will become self._backend._lock(item), correct?
2008-06-04T22:35:04 <johill> yeah something like that
2008-06-04T22:35:12 <dreimark> waldi: I do have on some of my parsers arguments and I would prefer the same behaviour for those as for macros
2008-06-04T22:35:14 <johill> I'm not entirely sure locks should be per-item, there's no technical reason for that
2008-06-04T22:35:29 <dreimark> waldi: for thj
2008-06-04T22:36:07 <dreimark> for the arnica parser I do use a simple dummy function
2008-06-04T22:36:13 <dreimark> currently
2008-06-04T22:37:53 <dennda> johill: hu? Do you want to lock all items if you only need to write to one?
2008-06-04T22:37:54 <dreimark> btw. can one verify the editor bug Oliver has described ?
2008-06-04T22:38:03 <dennda> Or what would be the alternative you propose
2008-06-04T22:38:31 <johill> dennda: no, but you could just have 'named locks' since the metadata update protocol is a bit higher than the backend level
2008-06-04T22:38:56 <johill> so you could use e.g. backend._lock('item://'+item.name)/... and if you later need other locks, you can do
2008-06-04T22:39:15 <johill> bacnekd._lock('other://global-read-lock-for-remove-item')
2008-06-04T22:40:03 <dreimark> dennda: is there a summarize about the current discussion?
2008-06-04T22:40:36 <dennda> dreimark: Actually we discuss things as I am sitting at them and trying to implement them
2008-06-04T22:41:12 <dennda> So after we discussed something the result is reflected in the code and additionally it may be noted in hg log or on my wiki page, depending on its importance
2008-06-04T22:42:42 <dreimark> ok, i was wondering about the non lockfree mode now (but I don't want to disturb much)
2008-06-04T22:43:23 <johill> dreimark: non-lockfree isn't really a priority at all, more like an optional feature at the end to allow removing items or so
2008-06-04T22:46:00 <dreimark> thanks
2008-06-04T22:46:37 <dennda> johill: "item://", "other://"?
2008-06-04T22:47:15 <johill> dennda: arbitrary prefixes to distinguish item and other locks
2008-06-04T22:48:34 <dennda> I see that for the very first time
2008-06-04T22:48:43 <johill> I just made it up ;)
2008-06-04T22:48:46 <dennda> And it confuses me to some extent
2008-06-04T22:48:56 <johill> ok well
2008-06-04T22:49:07 <johill> the point is, there is no technical reason to have locks on _items_
2008-06-04T22:49:14 <johill> they only need to be correlated to items
2008-06-04T22:49:38 <johill> otoh, no, maybe not, when you rename and have an item lock open at the same time
2008-06-04T22:49:46 <johill> hmm
2008-06-04T22:50:04 <johill> sounds like renames would have to take the lock too... hmmm
2008-06-04T22:53:34 <johill> well I suppose it would be better to tie locks to the item
2008-06-04T22:53:39 <johill> so that concurrent renames don't matter
2008-06-04T22:53:48 <johill> so ignore all I said and yeah, just do backend._lock(item)
2008-06-04T22:54:05 <dennda> hehe :)
2008-06-04T22:56:57 <johill> of course, the fs backend will have to take care with renames there
2008-06-04T23:03:35 <mmihaljevic> ThomasWaldmann: when I try to change path the same way dreimark did i got > ALREADY_EXISTS: {'info': '', 'desc': 'Already exists'}
2008-06-04T23:03:35 <mmihaljevic> error
2008-06-04T23:03:48 <mmihaljevic> also when I look at the processes
2008-06-04T23:04:12 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe some old slapd still running
2008-06-04T23:04:16 <ThomasWaldmann> try killall slapd
2008-06-04T23:04:17 <mmihaljevic> gizmo 9405 0.0 0.8 22764 4492 pts/6 Sl 23:02 0:00 slapd -h ldap://127.0.0.1:3890 -f /tmp/LdapEnvironment-0.umPdFQ/slapd.conf -d -n slapd:3890
2008-06-04T23:04:22 <mmihaljevic> I kill all them
2008-06-04T23:04:30 <mmihaljevic> but when I start test it does this
2008-06-04T23:05:09 <CIA-50> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station PERIOD com> default * 4020:96397c4b9239 1.8-storage-cdenter/MoinMoin/storage/abstract.py: Adding first basic methods for dict-like metadata access on items. Further methods like iteritems will follow. Added docstrings.
2008-06-04T23:05:11 <CIA-50> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station PERIOD com> default * 4021:e6b2991757b8 1.8-storage-cdenter/MoinMoin/storage/abstract.py: added missing _lock_item and _unlock_item methods on the backend class
2008-06-04T23:05:28 <mmihaljevic> ThomasWaldmann: when I change the path it does that
2008-06-04T23:06:22 <mmihaljevic> ThomasWaldmann: I killed again and also got that error
2008-06-04T23:09:07 <dreimark> mmihaljevic: see into your own slapd.conf
2008-06-04T23:09:17 <mmihaljevic> :)
2008-06-04T23:09:22 <dreimark> may be the path is different
2008-06-04T23:09:35 <dreimark> it
2008-06-04T23:09:40 <dreimark> was
2008-06-04T23:09:49 <dreimark> too much return
2008-06-04T23:10:11 <dreimark> the path was given from mine config of slapd
2008-06-04T23:11:47 <mmihaljevic> modulepath /usr/lib/ldap
2008-06-04T23:11:47 <mmihaljevic> moduleload back_bdb
2008-06-04T23:12:53 <johill> dennda: umm
2008-06-04T23:12:54 <johill> def __init__(self, backend, itemname):
2008-06-04T23:12:59 <johill> self._name = name
2008-06-04T23:13:08 <dreimark> mmihaljevic: you do have in /tmp all files it tried
2008-06-04T23:13:23 <mmihaljevic> :)
2008-06-04T23:13:24 <mmihaljevic> ok
2008-06-04T23:13:42 <mmihaljevic> I think I found my error just to try it
2008-06-04T23:13:49 <dennda> johill: oh
2008-06-04T23:13:52 <dennda> good catch, thanks
2008-06-04T23:13:57 <johill> dennda: you should do self._metadata = None
2008-06-04T23:14:07 <johill> and the lazy load if it is None
2008-06-04T23:14:44 <johill> on all sorts of accesses
2008-06-04T23:15:19 <mmihaljevic> dreimark: no I got the same problem will look at yours
2008-06-04T23:15:38 <CIA-50> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station PERIOD com> default * 4022:196d6a49be97 1.8-storage-cdenter/MoinMoin/storage/abstract.py: two small bugfixes in the Item-Classes __init__-method. The Items metadata will be loaded lazily upon first access
2008-06-04T23:16:14 <dreimark> mmihaljevic: try to change lines in one of the files in tmp of slapd comparing to your slapd
2008-06-04T23:16:38 <zenhase> dennda: you are also more like a night-worker, aren't you? :)
2008-06-04T23:16:47 <dreimark> mmihaljevic: that's how I found for me the path thing
2008-06-04T23:16:47 <mmihaljevic> dreimark: will do
2008-06-04T23:16:58 <mmihaljevic> dreimark: hehe
2008-06-04T23:17:02 <dennda> zenhase: depends
2008-06-04T23:17:12 <dennda> zenhase: actually, no
2008-06-04T23:17:32 <dennda> And I will go to bed soon
2008-06-04T23:17:55 <zenhase> i will have to calm down from all those brain-stuff first
2008-06-04T23:18:22 <johill> dennda: _lock should be metadata_lock(), no?
2008-06-04T23:18:44 <TheSheep> hmm... I'm playing with moin styling and msie8, and I'm afraid there will be a need for separate set of conditional comments for ie8
2008-06-04T23:18:45 <johill> and calling self._item._lock() will not really work when self is the item ;)
2008-06-04T23:18:53 <johill> you shouldn't copy&paste that much :P
2008-06-04T23:19:07 <zenhase> TheSheep: /o\
2008-06-04T23:20:01 <TheSheep> I will try to just limit the current conditional comments to ie7 for now and see if ie8 is standards-compliant enough
2008-06-04T23:21:03 <johill> or maybe sleep more ;) but you'll find all this when testing, I probably would have started imlpementing basic tests already
2008-06-04T23:21:47 <dreimark> TheSheep: are there any of the annoying css bugs fixed?
2008-06-04T23:22:16 <zenhase> TheSheep: this kind of reminds me of the article johill posted some time ago
2008-06-04T23:22:22 <zenhase> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/03/17.html
2008-06-04T23:22:27 <TheSheep> dreimark: yes, no longer HasLayout, png transparency works without tricks (but doesn't with tricks, that's the problem)
2008-06-04T23:24:16 * dreimark goes home now and then falls asleep soon
2008-06-04T23:24:20 <dreimark> gn
2008-06-04T23:24:31 <TheSheep> good night dreimark
2008-06-04T23:24:38 <TheSheep> poor olive tree
2008-06-04T23:29:30 <mmihaljevic> gn
2008-06-04T23:30:26 <TheSheep> good night Melita
2008-06-04T23:31:54 <dennda> johill: ok thanks for the advice. you are certainly right. I will consider that tomorrow. But for now I will follow your other advice and get some sleep
2008-06-04T23:32:07 <dennda> My clock rang at 6:30 am today
2008-06-04T23:32:10 <dennda> which is horrific
2008-06-04T23:32:47 <TheSheep> good night Christopher
2008-06-04T23:32:49 <dennda> good night
2008-06-04T23:36:56 <TheSheep> hi stargaming
2008-06-04T23:36:58 <TheSheep> argh
2008-06-04T23:37:04 <TheSheep> hi starshine :)
2008-06-04T23:37:24 <stargaming> well hi ;)
2008-06-04T23:37:47 <TheSheep> stargaming: hi, hi
2008-06-04T23:38:49 * johill goes to bed too
2008-06-04T23:39:16 <TheSheep> good night Johannes MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2008-06-04 (last edited 2008-06-04 06:45:02 by IrcLogImporter)
