MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2008-06-26

2008-06-26T01:36:23  <ThomasWaldmann> re
2008-06-26T01:42:45  <dreimark> re
2008-06-26T02:01:40  <dreimark> gn
2008-06-26T09:53:30  <zenhase> and then moin
2008-06-26T09:53:39  <zenhase> s/and then//
2008-06-26T09:53:42  <zenhase> :)
2008-06-26T11:53:43  <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2008-06-26T12:22:11  <TheSheep> PawelPacana: moin
2008-06-26T12:32:25  <PawelPacana> moin
2008-06-26T12:32:53  <TheSheep> so how is my favorite student doing?
2008-06-26T12:33:42  <PawelPacana> almost got a flat ;)
2008-06-26T12:34:09  <PawelPacana> unfortunately someone was faster and paid in advance...
2008-06-26T12:34:42  <TheSheep> PawelPacana: track him and kill :)
2008-06-26T12:35:30  <PawelPacana> TheSheep: now i know where he`ll live starting monday :E
2008-06-26T12:35:56  <TheSheep> stuff a pidgeon with explosives...
2008-06-26T12:38:38  <gizmach> moin
2008-06-26T12:41:00  <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: have a look at that nonascii patch / page
2008-06-26T12:42:34  <xorAxAx> TheSheep: or a sheep. monty python did that
2008-06-26T12:42:54  <TheSheep> xorAxAx: dratewka was first
2008-06-26T12:43:41  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: well, for historical reasons, moin stores the filename not in the fs encoding
2008-06-26T12:43:41  <PawelPacana> TheSheep: in fact there were no explosives, just sulfur
2008-06-26T12:43:49  <xorAxAx> changing that in the code will break old wikis
2008-06-26T12:43:57  <xorAxAx> if there is no migration script
2008-06-26T12:44:02  <ThomasWaldmann> i know
2008-06-26T12:44:05  <TheSheep> PawelPacana: of course sulfur is not explosive at all
2008-06-26T12:44:09  <xorAxAx> what should i check on the page? :)
2008-06-26T12:44:29  <ThomasWaldmann> the recent changes
2008-06-26T12:44:46  <xorAxAx> (there is no patch o n the page)
2008-06-26T12:44:48  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: hmm?
2008-06-26T12:44:51  <xorAxAx> i looked at rc
2008-06-26T12:45:01  <xorAxAx> the newest edit was on the page http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/Non-ASCII%20attachment%20names%20on%20Windows
2008-06-26T12:45:19  <xorAxAx> you mean i should look at your comment? :)
2008-06-26T12:45:35  <ThomasWaldmann> his and my changes
2008-06-26T12:46:24  <ThomasWaldmann> his new attach code is attached there
2008-06-26T12:47:21  <ThomasWaldmann> but it looks like his implementation does differently as he tells on the page
2008-06-26T12:48:15  <ThomasWaldmann> (and the code looks rather strange)
2008-06-26T12:49:22  <xorAxAx> also its not a patch :)
2008-06-26T12:49:46  <ThomasWaldmann> yes
2008-06-26T12:53:28  <ThomasWaldmann> (he could've simply used quoteWikinameFS)
2008-06-26T12:57:35  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: you keep supporting big files as items in mind?
2008-06-26T12:58:39  <ThomasWaldmann> (file like interface needed, so we can give a file to request.sendfile())
2008-06-26T13:02:51  <TheSheep> johill: I just found out about this, it might be interesting: http://www.eu.socialtext.net/st-rest-docs/index.cgi?rest_api_version_0_9x
2008-06-26T13:07:09  <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: so it also takes unicode object when file is on fat32?
2008-06-26T13:07:30  <ThomasWaldmann> what's the fs name encoding there?
2008-06-26T13:07:42  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: utf-16
2008-06-26T13:07:56  <xorAxAx> but thats nicely abstracted, one doesnt have to care
2008-06-26T13:08:14  <ThomasWaldmann> oh, really? modern stuff in a stoneage system :P
2008-06-26T13:08:54  <xorAxAx> ?
2008-06-26T13:09:02  <xorAxAx> windows never had problems with nice APIs IMHO
2008-06-26T13:09:21  <xorAxAx> or such localization issues
2008-06-26T13:09:39  <xorAxAx> even in win 95, a lot of windows was utf-16 based
2008-06-26T13:30:08  * ThomasWaldmann update that page
2008-06-26T13:45:00  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: for wikis with primarily non-ascii languages the FS backend could support multiple item name encodings
2008-06-26T13:45:45  <ThomasWaldmann> like quoteWikinameFS (default, portable, non-readable for non-ascii)
2008-06-26T13:46:02  <ThomasWaldmann> like utf-16le (windows)
2008-06-26T13:46:14  <ThomasWaldmann> like utf-8 (some posix)
2008-06-26T13:47:10  <ThomasWaldmann> last 2 even readable on OS level if OS uses them too
2008-06-26T13:49:37  <ThomasWaldmann> users of "mostly ascii" languages will likely ever use the default, but CJK, hebrew, arab, ... could like the other 2
2008-06-26T13:50:03  <TheSheep> what about mixed?
2008-06-26T13:50:32  <TheSheep> how about detecting which encodings work with a simple check?
2008-06-26T13:50:39  <ThomasWaldmann> coding is admin's choice
2008-06-26T13:51:09  <ThomasWaldmann> it not only depends on what works, but also what you want
2008-06-26T13:51:45  <TheSheep> another uncomprehensile configuration choice for newbies
2008-06-26T13:51:56  <TheSheep> +b
2008-06-26T13:52:09  <ThomasWaldmann> e.g. a japanese win32 wiki admin might well choose quoteWikinameFS if he prefers easy data_dir exchange with posix over readable dirnames/filenames
2008-06-26T13:53:10  <ThomasWaldmann> it is no problem for newbies, as the default will work
2008-06-26T13:57:19  <dreimark> moin, means this change  we always will need a crossplatform migration script ?
2008-06-26T13:57:54  <ThomasWaldmann> no, only if you decide to use a non-default encoding
2008-06-26T13:58:36  <ThomasWaldmann> and the "migration script" for the other case will be a backend switching script we will need anyways
2008-06-26T13:58:55  <ThomasWaldmann> (that just copies everything from src backend to dst backend)
2008-06-26T13:59:49  <ThomasWaldmann> (we need that copyall script also for 1.6 compat storage -> new fs storage migration)
2008-06-26T14:00:50  <ThomasWaldmann> ... or rather for -> new <whatever> storage migration
2008-06-26T14:14:14  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: the package docstring of storage seems a bit strange, rather like it belongs to storage.backends package
2008-06-26T14:25:24  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: please add inline comments by putting 2 spaces and then # ....
2008-06-26T14:25:34  <ThomasWaldmann> (not more)
2008-06-26T14:27:58  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: don't do "if x: pass ; else: ...", but rather "if not x: ..."
2008-06-26T14:29:43  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: use raise Exc("...")
2008-06-26T14:32:09  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: when your if branch raises an exception (or returns), you don't need the else branch
2008-06-26T14:35:07  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: please do first stdlib imports, then moin imports (this is just a convention)
2008-06-26T14:38:02  <CIA-52> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 100:ee184bd0f428 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica: whitespace fix
2008-06-26T14:38:03  <CIA-52> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 101:53d3a5de67d4 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/CHANGES_arnica: CHANGES_arnica: some hints added
2008-06-26T14:38:03  <CIA-52> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 102:b446b9826cf8 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica: whitepaces removed, some linebreaks
2008-06-26T14:38:04  <CIA-52> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 103:6700a5be9537 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica: bug fix use request.getScriptname() for moving a file
2008-06-26T14:38:07  <CIA-52> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 104:8cfbd286d1c7 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/ (action/arnica_slides.py parser/text_x_arnica.py): replaced ' with " in html code
2008-06-26T14:38:10  <CIA-52> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 105:827946df0d9c 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica: (ugly) fix replaces hardcoded GET to POST for widget.databrowser.format
2008-06-26T14:38:13  <CIA-52> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 106:93ddff1a23ed 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/parser/text_x_arnica.py: text_x_arnica: renamed html_preview to html_arrange_thumbnails
2008-06-26T14:38:16  <CIA-52> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 107:0ea5b9461351 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/CHANGES_arnica: CHANGES_arnica: reordered some lines
2008-06-26T14:55:25  <dreimark> bbl
2008-06-26T15:30:47  <johill> TheSheep: interesting for what?
2008-06-26T15:31:12  <TheSheep> johill: for designing api for wiki storage
2008-06-26T15:31:23  <TheSheep> johill: maybe not, nevermind
2008-06-26T15:31:40  <johill> oh, dunno
2008-06-26T15:31:46  <johill> we're pretty much done so...
2008-06-26T15:31:51  <TheSheep> yeah
2008-06-26T15:32:10  <TheSheep> another thing: a backend using that api could be written ;)
2008-06-26T15:32:32  <johill> if you want ;)
2008-06-26T18:02:37  <CIA-52> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station PERIOD com> default * 4207:8538892598aa 1.8-storage-cdenter/MoinMoin/storage/ (__init__.py backends/memory.py):
2008-06-26T18:02:37  <CIA-52> storage: Renaming item metadata lock / unlock method names to change / publish
2008-06-26T18:02:37  <CIA-52> to better reflect their meaning. Removing redundant method definition. Making
2008-06-26T18:02:37  <CIA-52> get_item_metadata return a new dict-object rather than pointing to the memory
2008-06-26T18:02:38  <CIA-52> backends item-metadata-storage-dict in order to make changing an items metadata
2008-06-26T18:02:40  <CIA-52> an atomic action
2008-06-26T18:02:42  <CIA-52> Christopher Denter <moin GUESSWHAT the DASH space DASH station PERIOD com> default * 4208:060a4831c326 1.8-storage-cdenter/ (192 files in 39 dirs): storage: merging uncommitted changes with johannes' push
2008-06-26T18:03:43  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: I will iron that out
2008-06-26T18:11:38  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: What's wrong with (e.g.) raise TypeError, "Itemnames must have string type, not %s" % (str(type(itemname)))?
2008-06-26T18:14:00  <ThomasWaldmann> it works, but if I understood it correctly, using Exc("descr") is the preferred way
2008-06-26T18:15:12  <ThomasWaldmann> it is maybe also a bit more natural to create a Exc instance giving the descr than using raise with a class and a separate descr
2008-06-26T18:18:44  <zenhase> isn't the latter form going to be deprecated in py3k anyway?
2008-06-26T18:18:50  <zenhase> or is it just string-exceptions alone?
2008-06-26T18:22:53  <dennda> ok just trying to find a regexp that replaces all of that automatically
2008-06-26T18:24:23  <xorAxAx> dennda: also str() is superfluous
2008-06-26T18:24:59  <dennda> ah yes, because %s converts it to a string implicitly, correct xorAxAx?
2008-06-26T18:25:20  <dennda> :%s/raise \w*Error\zs, \(.*\)/(\1)/
2008-06-26T18:25:20  <xorAxAx> yes
2008-06-26T18:25:21  <dennda> sweet
2008-06-26T18:43:41  <ThomasWaldmann> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3109/ < about raise in py3k
2008-06-26T18:54:19  <ThomasWaldmann> bbl
2008-06-26T18:55:33  <dennda> we're still 1.3 but thinking of 3k, now that is future proof :)
2008-06-26T18:57:09  <zenhase> of course :)
2008-06-26T18:57:28  <zenhase> MoinMoin - built to re- and persist
2008-06-26T19:01:00  <xorAxAx> build to rebuild your stuff :)
2008-06-26T19:06:55  <zenhase> nice slogan for an object-oriented database too 'Built to persist.'
2008-06-26T19:07:37  <zenhase> and then the counter-slogan ... for people against data retention: 'Persistance is futile.'
2008-06-26T19:08:38  <xorAxAx> data is bad, lets forget.
2008-06-26T20:02:08  <zenhase> need a short opinion: if you were to go to a hacker- or geek-convention where it is possible to show a movie from 35mm film material, which hacker/geek movie would you like to see on the big screen?
2008-06-26T20:03:49  <xorAxAx> wargames probably? :)
2008-06-26T20:05:14  <zenhase> that one already came up :)
2008-06-26T20:05:47  <zenhase> current suggestions are: tron, wargames or independence day (this is because it's shown on july 4th)
2008-06-26T20:06:26  <zenhase> i suggested hackers for the fun of it, but i think most people in the audience either don't like it or have seen it too often ;)
2008-06-26T20:06:54  <gizmach> ThomasWaldmann: when you have time would you please comment on my wiki the refactoring reequirements
2008-06-26T20:07:14  <zenhase> but i thought that i am perhaps missing out on some really good and not so obvious ones
2008-06-26T20:13:14  <ThomasWaldmann> space troopers :P
2008-06-26T20:14:03  <xorAxAx> brazil rocks
2008-06-26T20:14:57  <ThomasWaldmann> or some more than 40y old scifi, just for the laugh
2008-06-26T20:15:53  <ThomasWaldmann> "haendewaschen"(de) is also nice
2008-06-26T20:17:02  <zenhase> hmm, brazil is nice
2008-06-26T20:17:17  <zenhase> dr. strangelove :P
2008-06-26T20:51:08  * ThomasWaldmann wants a admin license
2008-06-26T21:49:08  * ThomasWaldmann digs in AttachFile crap code
2008-06-26T21:51:02  <johill> what do you want with it?
2008-06-26T21:51:16  <johill> I thought we are leaving that to dennda ;)
2008-06-26T21:52:45  <ThomasWaldmann> i am just looking how big a fix for platform independant nonascii attachment names would be
2008-06-26T22:31:04  <ThomasWaldmann> could somebody please try to save a nonascii filename drawing with 1.7.0?
2008-06-26T22:31:23  <ThomasWaldmann> looking at the code, I suspect it raises an UnicodeError
2008-06-26T22:33:27  * ThomasWaldmann works on olpc, no java here
2008-06-26T22:36:58  <TheSheep> NO JAVA?
2008-06-26T22:37:03  <TheSheep> honestly?
2008-06-26T22:37:19  * TheSheep tries
2008-06-26T23:07:00  <ThomasWaldmann> did it work?
2008-06-26T23:09:15  <ThomasWaldmann> TheSheep:
2008-06-26T23:09:43  <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: sorry, got distracted with something shiny
2008-06-26T23:09:58  <TheSheep> and it wasn't a metal ass
2008-06-26T23:16:14  <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: doesn't seem to work...
2008-06-26T23:17:01  <ThomasWaldmann> ok, i'll fix it
2008-06-26T23:17:11  <TheSheep> it just hangs at 100%cpu
2008-06-26T23:17:21  <TheSheep> good thing I have two cores :)
2008-06-26T23:17:46  <TheSheep> 23983 ?        Zl     0:05 [IEXPLORE.EXE] <defunct>
2008-06-26T23:17:48  <TheSheep> hmm...
2008-06-26T23:19:13  <ThomasWaldmann> hehe
2008-06-26T23:19:39  <TheSheep> I've been assaluted by the ghost of the past christmas! help!
2008-06-26T23:19:44  <ThomasWaldmann> anything in moin's log?
2008-06-26T23:20:13  <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: no idea, I tried it on http://moinmoi.in/WikiSandBox
2008-06-26T23:20:15  <TheSheep> :D
2008-06-26T23:20:53  <ThomasWaldmann> ok, i can look :)
2008-06-26T23:25:54  <ThomasWaldmann> hmm, nothing there
2008-06-26T23:27:20  <TheSheep> the java app just went berserk when I clicked save, higging one whole core to itself
2008-06-26T23:27:34  <TheSheep> and even neglecting refreshing its window, lazy bum
2008-06-26T23:27:40  <johill> heh
2008-06-26T23:27:58  <TheSheep> s/higging/hogging
2008-06-26T23:27:59  <johill> we really need a replacement
2008-06-26T23:28:12  * TheSheep runs deepcopy on johill