MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2008-11-30

2008-11-30T00:36:38  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: the getPragma calls for supplementation page are wrong
2008-11-30T01:48:55  * ThomasWaldmann looks at camelcase (on/off) pragma
2008-11-30T09:58:01  * ThomasWaldmann read the most verbose flame ever
2008-11-30T10:19:27  <TheSheep> eh?
2008-11-30T10:32:12  <ThomasWaldmann> see the wiki
2008-11-30T11:01:30  <dreimark> moin
2008-11-30T11:03:09  <dreimark> yesterday I thought he used quite the same words about "why moin?" than thomas did on his homepage
2008-11-30T11:05:22  <TheSheep> "people of my caliber" :)
2008-11-30T11:05:45  * dreimark remebers about a special seesion at googlepley
2008-11-30T11:06:52  <dreimark> plex
2008-11-30T11:06:55  <ThomasWaldmann> hehe
2008-11-30T11:12:14  <dreimark> he seems not to know the elementary RecentChanges or info action
2008-11-30T11:12:28  <dreimark> so I'm pretty sure now he used Thomas words
2008-11-30T11:13:08  <TheSheep> well, one is sure, he does care, so he will probably come back
2008-11-30T11:13:22  <TheSheep> maybe a little calmer this time
2008-11-30T11:13:43  <dreimark> and he has subscribed the page, so he should have been seen the comment
2008-11-30T11:15:00  * dreimark adds a FR
2008-11-30T11:17:12  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: i have added the subscription for him
2008-11-30T11:17:20  <dreimark> ok
2008-11-30T11:17:28  <ThomasWaldmann> http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/gallery.html
2008-11-30T11:17:44  <dreimark> I have explained him some days ago how it works
2008-11-30T11:25:20  <ThomasWaldmann> OMG matplotlib has lots of dependencies in ubuntu
2008-11-30T11:25:47  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: pretty nice, the basemap extension is good too. that rememebers me that I have to recompile netCDF for basemap next week
2008-11-30T11:25:52  <dreimark> and matplotlib
2008-11-30T11:28:18  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: http://code.google.com/p/svgfig/
2008-11-30T11:28:22  <dreimark> is only one file
2008-11-30T11:29:01  <dreimark> and we can do barcharts by css
2008-11-30T11:33:38  * dreimark late breakfast
2008-11-30T11:51:54  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: is there a bug report for the problems with getPragma calls for supplementation page
2008-11-30T11:52:34  <ThomasWaldmann> no, but you can just look at them :)
2008-11-30T11:53:00  <ThomasWaldmann> 2 issues:
2008-11-30T11:53:05  <ThomasWaldmann> a) too complicated
2008-11-30T11:53:15  <ThomasWaldmann> b) wrong default value type
2008-11-30T11:53:40  <dreimark> yeah,
2008-11-30T11:54:54  <ThomasWaldmann> have a look at the camelcase pragma patch i uploaded to the wiki tonight
2008-11-30T12:13:42  <ThomasWaldmann> svgfig needs some more pep8
2008-11-30T12:13:59  <dreimark> yeah always two blanks
2008-11-30T12:16:15  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: http://moinmo.in/MacroMarket/SvgPlot-1.8 (have to update line 115)
2008-11-30T12:17:31  <dreimark> line 99:105 are the interesting lines for doing a plot
2008-11-30T12:24:51  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: do you think that could be an EasyToDo, "rewrite stats.* with svgfig"?
2008-11-30T12:25:00  <dreimark> yes
2008-11-30T12:25:18  <dreimark> for all kind of line plots it is easy
2008-11-30T12:25:32  <dreimark> but some more work for pie chart
2008-11-30T12:25:42  <dreimark> and I think bar charts can be done by css
2008-11-30T12:26:08  <dreimark> http://moinmo.in/ParserMarket/BarChart
2008-11-30T12:26:20  <dreimark> http://moinmo.in/ParserMarket/BarChart/Examples
2008-11-30T12:27:15  <ThomasWaldmann> i am not very convinced about the css stuff
2008-11-30T12:37:01  <ThomasWaldmann> problem with svgfig is that it is currently under refactoring (or rather: it was a half year ago and then author ran out of time)
2008-11-30T12:40:21  <dreimark> http://code.google.com/p/svgfig/issues/detail?id=6
2008-11-30T12:42:11  <dreimark> the next question would be if a schoolar or someone else writes another application if he does add it
2008-11-30T12:44:03  <dreimark> I have no idea if he continues at some point. But currently that is the smallest piece of code I have seen so far
2008-11-30T12:44:29  <dreimark> without a lot of other dependencies
2008-11-30T12:45:01  <ThomasWaldmann> hm svgfig2 seems to need C modules
2008-11-30T12:45:36  <ThomasWaldmann> bad for bundling it with moin
2008-11-30T12:45:58  <dreimark> ok looks like we need to search something similiar
2008-11-30T12:47:27  <dreimark> and not such powerfull than e.g. latex whith a lot of risks
2008-11-30T12:47:58  <ThomasWaldmann> the _viewer C module seems to be unused as long as you don't call view()
2008-11-30T12:48:01  <dreimark> (latex is no replacement, but an example for too much possibilities)
2008-11-30T12:48:51  <dreimark> see RC
2008-11-30T12:49:51  <ThomasWaldmann> _curve C module is only used when importing from curve module (Curve class)
2008-11-30T12:55:54  <dreimark> I've not tried the 2.0alpha but if you only save svg data we probably don't need view
2008-11-30T12:56:48  <dreimark> for _curve I'm not sure, can try later if it is needed for my plots
2008-11-30T13:00:21  <ThomasWaldmann> # Curve: draws a parametric function; implements the adaptive sampling algorithm
2008-11-30T13:00:28  <ThomasWaldmann> we don't need that
2008-11-30T13:03:19  <ThomasWaldmann> hmpf, XAxis, YAxis inherit from Curve
2008-11-30T13:06:48  <ThomasWaldmann> hmm, only in v2, in v1 it is different
2008-11-30T13:07:48  <CIA-27> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 314:c1e0bb60a0c2 1.7-extensions/data/plugin/ (action/SlideShow.py parser/text_x_arnica.py): PEP8 clean up
2008-11-30T13:31:54  * ThomasWaldmann files 2 svgfig "bugs", let's see
2008-11-30T13:58:13  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/93197/ ok?
2008-11-30T13:58:51  <dreimark> that diff parser looks nice
2008-11-30T13:59:13  <dreimark> TheSheep: btw. can we use the highlighter in a similiar way for the page diffs?
2008-11-30T14:00:17  <TheSheep> dreimark: I suppose so
2008-11-30T14:00:50  <dreimark> I guess that 's an easy to do for the "not fancy diffs" from user settings
2008-11-30T14:02:24  <TheSheep> dreimark: btw, I have written a different diff in python: http://hatta.sheep.art.pl/history/Docs/15:16
2008-11-30T14:03:49  <TheSheep> it shows the changes inline
2008-11-30T14:08:46  <ThomasWaldmann> TheSheep: i tried that some years ago, but its usability depends
2008-11-30T14:09:04  <ThomasWaldmann> if you have some medium to big changes, it is very nice.
2008-11-30T14:09:29  <ThomasWaldmann> if you just add a comma within a big page, you will have difficulties to see the change.
2008-11-30T14:09:45  <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: true
2008-11-30T14:10:19  <TheSheep> maybe I should have some js-based 'scroll to next change' buttons :)
2008-11-30T14:10:20  <ThomasWaldmann> but otoh, if the change is so small you can't find it, it is maybe not that interesting. :)
2008-11-30T14:11:23  <dreimark> can it use strikelines for removed text
2008-11-30T14:12:04  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: diff looks ok. try it to make sure.
2008-11-30T14:12:21  <TheSheep> dreimark: it does normally, just this style doesn't try disabling the stylesheet
2008-11-30T14:16:47  <TheSheep> wow, that flaming guy really needed to vent
2008-11-30T14:18:52  <ThomasWaldmann> I guess I would've expressed it somehow less verbose.
2008-11-30T14:19:13  <ThomasWaldmann> But I am not a Java coder. ;)
2008-11-30T14:19:56  * TheSheep dies
2008-11-30T14:20:20  <dreimark> it looks to me that he didn't know much about the wiki way or on what tools a wiki is based on
2008-11-30T14:21:16  * ThomasWaldmann reanimates TheSheep 
2008-11-30T14:21:17  <TheSheep> dreimark: yes, it looks like a frustration coming from confusion and helplessness
2008-11-30T14:21:56  <TheSheep> I still don't understand what forces him to look at that code if it's so painful
2008-11-30T14:22:04  <dreimark> money
2008-11-30T14:22:29  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: TheSheep did not mean Java code, but our Python code.
2008-11-30T14:22:48  <ThomasWaldmann> (for Java, money is a good excuse, though)
2008-11-30T14:22:55  <dreimark> I guess someone told him to solve someone else problems
2008-11-30T14:23:27  <ThomasWaldmann> it rather sounded like he wants to use moin for some java site / docs
2008-11-30T14:23:43  <TheSheep> why not jspwiki? ;)
2008-11-30T14:23:51  <ThomasWaldmann> or xwiki
2008-11-30T14:24:59  <dreimark> if he would have started by a FR or a question it would have been easier to talk
2008-11-30T14:25:28  <TheSheep> if anything else fails, read the manual
2008-11-30T14:25:31  <dreimark> now everything is unclear and we know we can't give enything on some self-assessment
2008-11-30T14:26:01  <ThomasWaldmann> TheSheep: he is of course correct about our docs being messy
2008-11-30T14:26:01  <TheSheep> dreimark: I remember having similar feelings about moin's code :)
2008-11-30T14:26:13  <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: I know
2008-11-30T14:26:40  <TheSheep> docs have large viscosity, it seems
2008-11-30T14:26:47  <dreimark> I know both, and talking about it does not make any advance
2008-11-30T14:26:56  <dreimark> coding makes
2008-11-30T14:26:57  <ThomasWaldmann> but otoh, he somehow expects to know everything about something without having too much experience with it
2008-11-30T14:27:38  <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: that's a pov of an expert in his field who's suddenly dropped into infamiliar environment, but doesn't notice that it's different
2008-11-30T14:28:18  <ThomasWaldmann> yeah, he didn't understand that docstrings are not just "nop" comments
2008-11-30T14:28:24  <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: he also probably already estimated how much time/work it would take him
2008-11-30T14:28:48  <dreimark> but we was not able to ask before he started
2008-11-30T14:29:39  <dreimark> for an opinion how to solve it with smart short questions
2008-11-30T14:29:45  <ThomasWaldmann> let's just see if he comes back and talks reasonably again
2008-11-30T14:29:57  <TheSheep> probably not with the same name :)
2008-11-30T14:31:25  <dreimark> did one of you add a comment on his last
2008-11-30T14:31:41  <dreimark> or can
2008-11-30T14:32:01  <TheSheep> I still didn't even read half of what he wrote
2008-11-30T14:32:21  * ThomasWaldmann can resist to comment on his flame
2008-11-30T14:32:42  * dreimark too it speaks for himself more than a comment
2008-11-30T14:35:35  <dreimark> we should have had the K word in Bad content ;)
2008-11-30T14:36:23  <TheSheep> kurwa?
2008-11-30T14:37:26  <dreimark> no the three letter word in the first hunk
2008-11-30T14:38:17  <ThomasWaldmann> venting on a wiki is much better than on a mailing list :)
2008-11-30T14:39:03  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: btw, in that SvgPlot macro, shouldn't the cache key rather get computed from the src data than from the rendered data?
2008-11-30T14:41:06  <ThomasWaldmann> otherwise it is not really a cache, but rather some result storage accessible via url
2008-11-30T14:42:25  <dreimark> in both cases it does not matter if the cache files were removed
2008-11-30T14:43:15  <dreimark> for the usage definition for sendcached it is better it depends on the data
2008-11-30T14:43:28  <dreimark> otherewise it can become another meaning
2008-11-30T14:44:10  <dreimark> sendcached should get somehow a lifetime parameter
2008-11-30T14:44:32  <dreimark> because for my usecase I get every day of access a new cache file
2008-11-30T14:44:48  <dreimark> and I get them also if i read an older revision of a page
2008-11-30T14:46:21  <dreimark> sometimes it is nice to keep these files and sometimes it isn't neccessary
2008-11-30T14:47:29  <dreimark> I have to update the example code on MM. I have wrongly added the EmbedObject code
2008-11-30T14:51:32  <CIA-27> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 4204:a0864c9c4752 1.8/MoinMoin/theme/__init__.py: theme:__init__: fixed and simplified getPragma calls for supplementation
2008-11-30T15:08:58  <ThomasWaldmann> hm? i mean you render the svg xml data all the time when that page is viewed.
2008-11-30T15:09:41  <ThomasWaldmann> if you would compute the key from the input data, you would not have to do that, because you can get the rendered data from the cache.
2008-11-30T15:11:00  <ThomasWaldmann> saves execution of 99..105 most of the time
2008-11-30T15:11:44  <dreimark> ah yeah, right that is superfluously
2008-11-30T15:12:21  <dreimark> that was/is because at the beginning I wasn't aware that I do need to save it to a file first
2008-11-30T15:12:52  <ThomasWaldmann> brb
2008-11-30T15:12:56  <dreimark> I thought that it could be possible to crete it completly on the fly and send it to the browser
2008-11-30T15:26:34  <dreimark> bbl
2008-11-30T17:02:13  <CIA-27> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 4205:9c1c823f4111 1.8/MoinMoin/theme/__init__.py: theme:__init__:PEP8 whitespace cleaned
2008-11-30T17:02:39  * dreimark wonders why that was hidden before
2008-11-30T22:21:40  * dreimark dislikes this 'NoneType' object is not iterable by i18n 
2008-11-30T22:21:49  <dreimark> from MoinMoin.search.queryparser import QueryParser
2008-11-30T22:24:44  <ThomasWaldmann> some windows bug for me to fix? :)
2008-11-30T22:25:13  <dreimark> no new report and no page dir zip file
2008-11-30T22:26:15  <dreimark> ir8rc1 is scheduled for next year
2008-11-30T22:27:03  <ThomasWaldmann> ?
2008-11-30T22:27:14  <dreimark> s/r/e/
2008-11-30T22:28:42  <dreimark> ie8beta2 if you want to try how it looks
2008-11-30T22:29:08  <dreimark> or gg's browser chrome
2008-11-30T22:30:11  <ThomasWaldmann> ah, right, trying chrome
2008-11-30T22:32:21  <dreimark> queryparser is quite stable, me thinks about documenting it with some examples
2008-11-30T22:44:46  <dreimark> gn
2008-11-30T22:51:56  <ThomasWaldmann> gn