MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2009-01-05

2009-01-05T00:00:13  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: auth list as in the list of admins?
2009-01-05T00:00:59  <ThomasWaldmann> no, list of authenticator objects (like http auth, ldap auth, builtin auth...)
2009-01-05T00:01:19  <ronny> why is that an issue ? they all have names
2009-01-05T00:02:31  <ThomasWaldmann> they need additional config values
2009-01-05T00:02:58  <ThomasWaldmann> and just using classes is much cleaner than putting those into config in another way
2009-01-05T00:03:03  <ThomasWaldmann> (we had that before)
2009-01-05T00:03:10  <ronny> hmk
2009-01-05T00:03:33  <ronny> at least there needs to be a non-magic way to pass configuration around
2009-01-05T00:03:45  <ronny> else everything is going to be a confusing mess
2009-01-05T00:05:49  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: i think killing Request.given_config, and adding a config parameter to its ctor would already fix much of the issue
2009-01-05T00:06:06  <ronny> then application can pass it when instanciating requests
2009-01-05T00:06:51  <ThomasWaldmann> that's not a big difference
2009-01-05T00:07:05  <ronny> its a big difference when it comes to passing around stuff
2009-01-05T00:07:31  <ronny> also it needs to switch from using classes to using instances
2009-01-05T00:07:48  <ronny> the classes need to be instanciated anyway, no need to have n instances with the same purpose
2009-01-05T00:07:58  <ronny> i think i have a plan
2009-01-05T00:08:35  <ronny> hopefully it kills some of the complexitx i see there
2009-01-05T00:10:33  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: btw, i'll also take a look into killing most of multiconfig in favor of having a "farmconfig" dispatch to application instances or just generate webserver config files
2009-01-05T00:11:10  <ronny> not sure if thats possible/reasonable yet
2009-01-05T00:12:17  <ThomasWaldmann> ehrm
2009-01-05T00:12:38  <ThomasWaldmann> we want to release 1.9 soon, so please no bigger changes to how configuration works
2009-01-05T00:15:46  <ronny> ok
2009-01-05T00:16:03  <ronny> but i'll change the internal passing around a bit
2009-01-05T00:16:11  <ronny> just enough to make it trackable
2009-01-05T00:26:10  <ronny> hmm
2009-01-05T00:26:43  <ronny> damn tricky to trace where the heck it gets the config from
2009-01-05T00:28:10  <ThomasWaldmann> it announces it in the log
2009-01-05T00:31:14  <ronny> hmk, i tihnk i figured how stuff likes to work
2009-01-05T00:34:19  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: i'd like to create a FarmApplication that falls back to a normal application if it cant load farmconfig
2009-01-05T00:34:50  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: aware of any config usage that does NOT get the config from the request?
2009-01-05T00:35:51  <ThomasWaldmann> no, request.cfg is the usual way
2009-01-05T00:36:38  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: then i can get rid of all the global magic and make testing more easy without changing the external api
2009-01-05T00:38:23  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: the basic idea is to have a MoinInstance and MoinFarm as request handlers
2009-01-05T00:38:36  <ronny> MoinInstance has a single config and dispatches on that
2009-01-05T00:39:27  <ronny> MoinFarm will keep an up2date farmconfig and dispatch betwen multiple MoinInstances
2009-01-05T00:39:52  <ThomasWaldmann> how exactly does this solve something?
2009-01-05T00:39:52  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: does that sound ok?
2009-01-05T00:40:15  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: it moves control over the configs from some magical globals to defined classes
2009-01-05T00:40:24  <ronny> that way its more easy to test
2009-01-05T00:41:15  <ThomasWaldmann> ok
2009-01-05T00:42:12  <ronny> also i can keep the usage of configs exactly the same
2009-01-05T00:42:30  <ronny> its only the internal dispatching that will be different
2009-01-05T00:43:39  <ronny> just need to figure a good place to put stuff
2009-01-05T00:46:17  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: just confirming, is it right that farmconfig gets checked for changes via mtime, but wikiconfigs dont?
2009-01-05T00:49:45  <ThomasWaldmann> no, all cfgs
2009-01-05T00:51:04  <ronny> ok, then i missed that somewhere, need to reread the code
2009-01-05T00:51:14  <ThomasWaldmann> _makeConfig
2009-01-05T00:51:34  <ThomasWaldmann> see max(...
2009-01-05T00:53:38  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: see getConfig, it wont check again if its in the cache
2009-01-05T00:54:15  <ThomasWaldmann> that's not the point
2009-01-05T00:54:34  <ronny> hmm
2009-01-05T00:54:53  <ThomasWaldmann> iirc it stores the cfg mtime to invalidate some cache
2009-01-05T00:55:16  <ThomasWaldmann> (not to reload the config, you need to restart moin for that)
2009-01-05T00:55:26  <ronny> i see
2009-01-05T00:56:00  <ronny> so wikiconfig reloading needs moin restart, but farmconfig may change?
2009-01-05T00:56:25  <ThomasWaldmann> ever config change requires a restart of moin
2009-01-05T00:56:44  <ThomasWaldmann> but it needs to know when to invalidate some config dependant disk cache
2009-01-05T00:57:10  <ronny> hmm, seems like i did missread some stuff
2009-01-05T00:57:59  <ronny> ok, that makes a lot of things more simple
2009-01-05T01:01:09  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: means i can use lazy properties to get things
2009-01-05T01:01:42  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: is it correct that 1.9 will keep 2.3 support?
2009-01-05T01:02:30  <ThomasWaldmann> i think we have no reason yet to drop it
2009-01-05T01:03:01  <ronny> ok
2009-01-05T01:11:22  <ronny> oh yay
2009-01-05T01:11:32  <ronny> i figured how suid works
2009-01-05T01:15:22  <ThomasWaldmann> :)
2009-01-05T01:18:17  * ThomasWaldmann .oO(linuxwiki.org, ooowiki.de, jurawiki.de now run 1.8.1 with modernized theme)
2009-01-05T01:19:51  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: btw, the default application is supposed to try running a farm, and fall back to the default wikiconfig?
2009-01-05T01:22:23  <ThomasWaldmann> yes
2009-01-05T01:22:31  <ronny> ok
2009-01-05T01:23:33  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: is getConfig(url) considered a public api?
2009-01-05T01:24:48  <ThomasWaldmann> no
2009-01-05T01:26:02  <ronny> good, it would be handy to replace it by a class that knows a bit more
2009-01-05T01:28:13  <ronny> oh
2009-01-05T01:28:36  <ronny> cfg.siteid will most likely allways be cfg.__class__.__module__
2009-01-05T01:34:05  <ThomasWaldmann> e.g. 'wikiconfig'
2009-01-05T01:34:14  <ThomasWaldmann> (needs to be unique)
2009-01-05T01:37:40  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: since each config is in a own module, and always a class called Config
2009-01-05T01:37:50  <ronny> its always the same
2009-01-05T01:38:25  <ronny> ops, one could imiport another config without subclassing
2009-01-05T01:38:31  <ronny> so its just usual
2009-01-05T01:39:20  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: why do you guys inherit descriptors from property and use indirection instead of the descriptor protocol?
2009-01-05T01:41:05  <ThomasWaldmann> we do?
2009-01-05T01:42:34  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: for example MoinMoin.web.contexts.EnvironProxy
2009-01-05T01:42:46  <ThomasWaldmann> ask zenhase :)
2009-01-05T01:42:52  <ronny> zenhase: why?
2009-01-05T01:43:00  <ThomasWaldmann> because that is his code
2009-01-05T01:44:10  <ronny> hmm
2009-01-05T01:44:20  * ThomasWaldmann guesses he is in sleep mode. I will soon sleep, too.
2009-01-05T01:44:35  <ronny> zenhase: also why did you ignore werkzeugs environ_property?
2009-01-05T01:49:28  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: ok, i have a basic plan, i'll finish tomorow
2009-01-05T01:49:36  <ronny> night
2009-01-05T01:50:19  <ThomasWaldmann> gn ronny
2009-01-05T01:50:41  * ThomasWaldmann would prefer a python plan, though
2009-01-05T01:57:23  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: "python plan"?
2009-01-05T01:58:01  * ThomasWaldmann just joking
2009-01-05T01:58:01  <ronny> i mean finish as in write the classes, fix the tests
2009-01-05T02:29:24  <starshine_away> starshine.sleep()
2009-01-05T02:31:24  <ThomasWaldmann> gn starshine_away :)
2009-01-05T08:36:34  <ronny> moin
2009-01-05T08:50:43  <TheSheep> moin
2009-01-05T08:56:33  <ThomasWaldmann> MoinMoin
2009-01-05T09:03:02  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: hmm, im puzled about yet another magical thing that seems to be used nowhere
2009-01-05T09:03:31  <ronny> the become method of MoinMoin.web.contexts.Context
2009-01-05T09:06:08  <ronny> zenhase: why does it even exist?
2009-01-05T09:08:10  <ThomasWaldmann> ronny: no idea
2009-01-05T09:09:54  <ronny> it does massive magic, and there seems to be absolutely no reason
2009-01-05T09:18:51  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: stuff in the wsgi things seems to be insanely complex for some reason i dont see
2009-01-05T09:19:47  <ronny> and it missuses the wsgi environ for stuff that doesnt belong there
2009-01-05T09:22:49  <TheSheep> the reason is probably retrofitting the code to wsgi
2009-01-05T09:24:51  <ronny> i think most uses of the environproxy should be replaced by a werkzeug cached_property
2009-01-05T09:25:21  <ronny> i'll take a look after stuff works
2009-01-05T09:39:41  <dreimark> moin
2009-01-05T09:46:36  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: i just figured a more simple and more hackish way to pass config
2009-01-05T09:47:28  * dreimark feels we need a plan to carefully test all the 1.9 changes
2009-01-05T09:57:03  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: do i need a ldap server to run the ldap tests?
2009-01-05T09:57:48  <ronny> ah, i see, o borked the tests in another way
2009-01-05T10:00:58  <ronny> again, i fscking hate conftests magic ;P
2009-01-05T10:08:14  <ThomasWaldmann> ronny: you need a slapd installed on your machine, but everything else should be done by the tests
2009-01-05T10:11:00  <ronny> ThomasWaldmann: the config things for the ldap tests are broken
2009-01-05T10:11:27  <ronny> hmm, got to go to another place, i try to have a fix for the issues till 12:00
2009-01-05T12:02:36  <zenhase> moin
2009-01-05T12:06:00  <zenhase> ronny: hmm, the become-stuff is indeed a unused magic thing, it stems from the time, when i wanted to seperate all concerns in distinct contexts and then wanted to change the context in-place while it is passed thru all the layers
2009-01-05T12:07:44  <zenhase> i guess i realized that this is not very cool this way and just started using class hierarchy and passing a big context (similar to moins big ol request) again
2009-01-05T12:08:17  <zenhase> so the method kinda was forgotten to be removed
2009-01-05T12:08:47  <zenhase> regarding environ_property: there was a problem with the way it generated missing properties iirc
2009-01-05T12:12:23  * zenhase looks out of the window and lets his jaw drop
2009-01-05T12:12:47  <zenhase> heavy snow :o
2009-01-05T12:12:58  <zenhase> came by surprise this night
2009-01-05T12:30:52  <dreimark> ~ 10cm snow outside
2009-01-05T13:25:08  <ronny> zenhase: also, why is all the stuff inside of the environment?
2009-01-05T13:25:24  <ronny> zenhase: most of those thins are irelevant for wsgi
2009-01-05T13:25:33  <ronny> no need to put them into the env
2009-01-05T14:09:23  <zenhase> ronny: this also stems from the 'magic thing' (see 12:06)
2009-01-05T14:10:39  <zenhase> i admit there is still some stuff that needs further thinking, i am not contend with all the code myself
2009-01-05T14:11:33  <ronny> ok
2009-01-05T14:12:00  <ronny> well, most of the auth tests pass, i get weird ldap timeouts, and i'll probably end up with some more hacking
2009-01-05T14:12:13  <ronny> bbl, i got myself a box with left4death
2009-01-05T14:14:17  <zenhase> huh?
2009-01-05T14:15:42  <zenhase> oh, it is a game
2009-01-05T14:29:02  <ronny> re
2009-01-05T20:13:59  * dreimark looks at MoinMoinBugs/GuiEditorBreaksStyle
2009-01-05T22:09:12  * ThomasWaldmann streamlines attachment_drawing
2009-01-05T22:23:27  * ThomasWaldmann needs an image similar to attachimg, but for "nonexisting drawing" (in grey, same size)
2009-01-05T22:48:16  * dreimark looks currently at gui editor anf HelpOnTables
2009-01-05T23:24:03  <CIA-37> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4228:f8e4e84525e8 1.8/MoinMoin/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
2009-01-05T23:24:03  <CIA-37> streamline attachment_drawing formatter behaviour
2009-01-05T23:24:03  <CIA-37> Make it behave more similar to attachment_image:
2009-01-05T23:24:03  <CIA-37> - show grey clip image when there is no drawing
2009-01-05T23:24:03  <CIA-37> - support transclusion params (like height, width, ...)
2009-01-05T23:24:04  <CIA-37> Fix creole parser's usage (use given description as alt text).
2009-01-05T23:30:47  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: did you file a bug about width/height not working?
2009-01-05T23:56:10  <CIA-37> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4477:4d95fa3b074d 1.9/MoinMoin/ (3 files in 2 dirs): merged moin/1.8
2009-01-05T23:56:32  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: I can later retry if width/height can be left over for http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/GuiEditorBreaksStyle
2009-01-05T23:57:28  <dreimark> currently i try to figure out why the gui editor makes an extra indentation for the first table line for dl