MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2009-07-27

2009-07-27T00:00:55  <ThomasWaldmann> about the flup stuff: we have sample adaptor scripts and they are documented on http://master19.moinmo.in/InstallDocs/ServerInstall
2009-07-27T00:01:05  <ThomasWaldmann> so, do we need another page about flup?
2009-07-27T00:02:04  <CIA-43> Alexandre Martani <amartani AT gmail DOT com> default * 6394:7224a73c48b2 2.0-storage-editor-amartani/MoinMoin/items/lock.py: Real-time editor: Separate method for timestamp checking of timed out editors
2009-07-27T00:02:11  <CIA-43> Alexandre Martani <amartani AT gmail DOT com> default * 6395:c0147e194634 2.0-storage-editor-amartani/MoinMoin/items/ (_tests/test_ItemLock.py lock.py): Real-time editor: Create ItemLock.view method
2009-07-27T00:02:14  <CIA-43> Alexandre Martani <amartani AT gmail DOT com> default * 6396:a5af59a3777d 2.0-storage-editor-amartani/MoinMoin/ (items/__init__.py templates/show.html): Real-time editor: show message about users editing the page
2009-07-27T00:02:16  <ThomasWaldmann> note that what you wrote is in the spirit of the old HelpOnInstalling/* pages - they all got killed for 1.9
2009-07-27T00:02:36  <dreimark> hmm, I remove it
2009-07-27T00:03:39  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: is 'No file found.' already used somewhere else?
2009-07-27T00:04:03  <dreimark> unfotrunately not
2009-07-27T00:04:49  <dreimark> I think it does not need to be translated. because LanguageSetup is also not translated
2009-07-27T00:04:49  <ThomasWaldmann> then a more precise msg would be nice
2009-07-27T00:04:55  <dreimark> ok
2009-07-27T00:05:26  <ThomasWaldmann> 'Only superuser is allowed to use this action.' same q. for this
2009-07-27T00:05:43  <dreimark> this is translated
2009-07-27T00:05:56  <dreimark> No language package file found for installation. ?
2009-07-27T00:06:42  <ThomasWaldmann> 'No language packages found.'
2009-07-27T00:06:48  <dreimark> shorter ok
2009-07-27T00:07:34  <ThomasWaldmann> ehrm
2009-07-27T00:07:39  <dreimark> hmm?
2009-07-27T00:07:55  <ThomasWaldmann> 'No page packages found.'
2009-07-27T00:08:30  <dreimark> yeah, that makes more sense
2009-07-27T00:13:46  <dreimark> wtf
2009-07-27T00:13:58  <dreimark> (did you forget to merge? use push -f to force)
2009-07-27T00:14:04  <dreimark> and there is nothing to merge
2009-07-27T00:15:56  <CIA-43> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4917:3a1c45643a6a 1.9/MoinMoin/i18n/strings.py: add HelpOnGroups help page
2009-07-27T00:16:16  * dreimark fetches a new clone
2009-07-27T00:16:59  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: also the HelpOnDicts ?
2009-07-27T00:17:43  <ThomasWaldmann> it is already there
2009-07-27T00:17:48  <dreimark> ok
2009-07-27T00:29:17  <CIA-43> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 4918:9953cf1cec5b 1.9/MoinMoin/action/language_setup.py: action language_setup: error messages added
2009-07-27T00:44:55  * ThomasWaldmann shortened and reordered LanguageSetup
2009-07-27T00:48:02  <dreimark> ok
2009-07-27T00:48:06  <dreimark> good night
2009-07-27T00:51:21  <ThomasWaldmann> gn dreimark
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2009-07-27T01:27:59  <CIA-43> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4919:a8e18158b1e5 1.9/wiki/underlay.tar: updated underlay
2009-07-27T01:28:03  <CIA-43> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4920:0e94e9b438be 1.9/MoinMoin/i18n/ (43 files): updated i18n
2009-07-27T01:28:04  <CIA-43> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4921:de6598662f6a 1.9/MoinMoin/action/language_setup.py: merged main
2009-07-27T01:56:05  <CIA-43> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4922:4ae10b1a4e20 1.9/docs/ (INSTALL.html UPDATE.html): make install-docs interwiki
2009-07-27T01:56:06  <CIA-43> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4923:47679e758f79 1.9/ (4 files in 4 dirs): bump version to 1.9.0beta3, minor make pagepacks fix
2009-07-27T01:56:08  <CIA-43> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4924:a8a777074233 1.9/.hgtags: tagged release 1.9.0beta3
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2009-07-27T08:55:33  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: the gui editor does not see wiki markup, but gets html. and it recently likes to remove empty elements.
2009-07-27T08:56:26  <ThomasWaldmann> the solution to that FooBar``s problem (and some others) is to kill camelcase links.
2009-07-27T08:56:47  <dreimark> ok
2009-07-27T08:58:48  <dreimark> that sounds like we need a converter script
2009-07-27T08:59:53  <dreimark> convert it before it goes into the gui editor
2009-07-27T09:00:16  <ThomasWaldmann> will be needed by some stuff waldi has already done anyway
2009-07-27T09:00:31  <dreimark> :)
2009-07-27T09:03:52  <dreimark> hmm, clear message goes back to the LanguageSetup page. Ignoring it makes me staying on the action. Is it possible to jump fro mclear message directly to the action?
2009-07-27T09:05:03  <dreimark> also I think it is a good idea to add LanguageSetup to the navibar
2009-07-27T09:05:38  <dreimark> if you have installed some packs it is probably not easy to remember the name of that page
2009-07-27T09:05:45  <dreimark> later
2009-07-27T09:06:04  <ThomasWaldmann> iirc you control the URL displayed after executing the action in your action
2009-07-27T09:07:12  <dreimark> an othe ridea is to tell if ou for example click on HelpContents and haven't installed the pack.
2009-07-27T09:07:37  <dreimark> "this page does not exist yet. It is in package ... If you want to install it do ...
2009-07-27T09:07:47  <ThomasWaldmann> no
2009-07-27T09:07:57  <dreimark> similiar to ubuntu for missing programs
2009-07-27T09:07:58  <ThomasWaldmann> too much voodoo
2009-07-27T09:09:22  <dreimark> or the navibar should only show existing pages
2009-07-27T09:09:33  <dreimark> hmm, makes it also difficult
2009-07-27T09:09:51  <dreimark> hmm, may be not selectable (no links)
2009-07-27T09:18:42  <waldi> yeah, I would like to kill the camelcase links ...
2009-07-27T09:20:25  * ThomasWaldmann is still tired from the 1.6 converter :)
2009-07-27T09:35:40  <dreimark> seems I don't find where to add to "clear message" the right url. The displayed url is the right one but
2009-07-27T09:35:50  <dreimark> theme.msg makes close = d['page'].link_to(self.request, text=_('Clear message'), css_class="clear-link")
2009-07-27T09:36:05  <dreimark> it would be nice if I could pass the query also
2009-07-27T09:36:28  <dreimark> waldi: me too
2009-07-27T09:45:59  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: how about just redirecting directly to the action again at the end of the action?
2009-07-27T09:46:55  <ThomasWaldmann> or rather: doesn't the browser reload that page anyway if you don't tell it otherwise?
2009-07-27T09:49:02  <dreimark> if you click clear message you jump to the page.
2009-07-27T09:49:18  * dreimark tries redirect
2009-07-27T10:11:08  * dreimark found no way currently (if one doesn't click on clear message it works)
2009-07-27T10:13:03  <dreimark> bbl
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2009-07-27T11:25:09  <johill> hey. I just had a requirement to make the data browser autofilter less wide, and realised that there's no need to have [empty] and [not empty] when there's no empty item
2009-07-27T11:25:25  <johill> I made a patch to do that: http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/patches/moin/browser-empty.patch
2009-07-27T11:25:47  <johill> want a bug report, or just apply it?
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2009-07-27T12:11:02  <ThomasWaldmann> johill: just commit it
2009-07-27T12:12:55  <ThomasWaldmann> johill: can you explain the "if"?
2009-07-27T12:13:09  <johill> I can't commit :)
2009-07-27T12:13:31  <johill> the if ...
2009-07-27T12:13:32  <johill> well
2009-07-27T12:13:41  <johill> unique is the list of unique strings that got added to the filter
2009-07-27T12:13:49  <johill> if '' is not in that list, that means that there's nothing empty
2009-07-27T12:13:54  <johill> so [empty] and [not empty] would be useless
2009-07-27T12:14:30  <ThomasWaldmann> ah, so it can't be None or whatever
2009-07-27T12:15:22  <ThomasWaldmann> why can't you commit? should work.
2009-07-27T12:15:45  <johill> it's always a list of strings
2009-07-27T12:15:55  <johill> don't think I have the ssh key any more
2009-07-27T12:16:23  <ThomasWaldmann> ah X) ok, I can do it. if you like, send me a new one.
2009-07-27T12:16:34  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, are you following dennda's stuff?
2009-07-27T12:16:55  <johill> I don't even have a hg checkout any more either, I'd prefer if you just committed it :)
2009-07-27T12:17:07  <johill> no, I'm not following dennda's stuff
2009-07-27T12:17:12  <johill> should I?
2009-07-27T12:17:36  <ThomasWaldmann> we extended storage api a bit
2009-07-27T12:17:54  <johill> that was expected, I guess
2009-07-27T12:18:05  <ThomasWaldmann> we found that we can't get away without destroy (item|rev)
2009-07-27T12:18:18  <ThomasWaldmann> and also tell was added
2009-07-27T12:19:19  * ThomasWaldmann added the missing stuff to fs backend
2009-07-27T12:20:03  <ThomasWaldmann> also, dennda did the acl and router middleware
2009-07-27T12:20:04  <johill> sounds reasonable
2009-07-27T12:20:07  <johill> nice
2009-07-27T12:20:31  <johill> I don't see a repo for that?
2009-07-27T12:20:45  <ThomasWaldmann> the biggest blocker currently is that delete and rename ops are somewhat unclear about how to implement best
2009-07-27T12:20:57  <ThomasWaldmann> 2.0-storage
2009-07-27T12:21:28  <johill> ah
2009-07-27T12:21:37  <johill> hg doesn't list the revisions in a good order
2009-07-27T12:21:46  <johill> so I thought the branch hadn't been touched for 6 weeks except for a merge
2009-07-27T12:22:30  <ThomasWaldmann> it sort by changeset number, not by date
2009-07-27T12:23:17  <ThomasWaldmann> delete: "mark as deleted in metadata" or "trashbin approach, moving it out of the way"
2009-07-27T12:23:17  <johill> yeah, but during merge that makes little sense really
2009-07-27T12:23:46  <johill> (since you could be merging in months of work, or months-old work)
2009-07-27T12:23:58  <johill> anyway
2009-07-27T12:24:16  <johill> delete I think we had just been using marking deleted?
2009-07-27T12:24:38  <johill> any problem with that? and what's wrong with rename?
2009-07-27T12:24:45  <ThomasWaldmann> yes, that's what's currently there
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2009-07-27T12:25:00  <ThomasWaldmann> it gets in the way if deleted item is target of rename op
2009-07-27T12:25:21  <johill> ah
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2009-07-27T12:26:09  <ThomasWaldmann> inter-backend rename is a bit tricky, we had to invent destroy(olditem) for that
2009-07-27T12:27:42  <ThomasWaldmann> so it does destroy internally, but otoh we maybe do not want to require "destroy" capability from the user
2009-07-27T12:28:22  <johill> I guess you have to migrate all revisions and then really kill them on the old side in that case, yeah
2009-07-27T12:28:25  <ThomasWaldmann> (likely the only person that should have "destroy" is the wiki admin or very trusted people)
2009-07-27T12:28:30  <johill> I'll have to think about the delete vs. rename thing
2009-07-27T12:29:15  <ThomasWaldmann> we killed "revert" capability btw
2009-07-27T12:29:27  <johill> what was that? :)
2009-07-27T12:29:42  <ThomasWaldmann> (and depending on the implementation of delete, we maybe could also kill "delete" capa)
2009-07-27T12:29:52  <johill> ah you mean the acl thing
2009-07-27T12:29:56  <johill> right
2009-07-27T12:30:02  <ThomasWaldmann> to write the contents of old rev N to a new current rev
2009-07-27T12:30:17  <ThomasWaldmann> (is checked for write capa now)
2009-07-27T12:30:19  <johill> yeah
2009-07-27T12:30:32  <johill> yeah I was confused api vs. capability -- thought you were talking about some api thing
2009-07-27T12:31:15  <ThomasWaldmann> ah, and the backends, items, etc. have serialization now (by me :)
2009-07-27T12:31:29  <johill> huh?
2009-07-27T12:31:35  <johill> that doesn't make much sense
2009-07-27T12:31:39  <ThomasWaldmann> xml
2009-07-27T12:31:42  <johill> oh
2009-07-27T12:31:52  <johill> was thinking about serialisation as in locking
2009-07-27T12:32:14  <ThomasWaldmann> no, it's s. as in s. :D
2009-07-27T12:32:22  <johill> heh
2009-07-27T12:33:23  <ThomasWaldmann> (using a stack of generators as consumers)
2009-07-27T12:33:37  <johill> :)
2009-07-27T12:33:53  <johill> not that I know what you'd need that for
2009-07-27T12:34:17  <johill> or really care ;)
2009-07-27T12:35:33  <johill> I'll think about the delete/rename thing, for now I have to go
2009-07-27T12:35:34  <ThomasWaldmann> (that's for the unserialization part, to do it within the right object)
2009-07-27T12:35:40  <ThomasWaldmann> ok, cu
2009-07-27T12:35:42  <johill> later
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2009-07-27T12:46:49  <CIA-43> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4350:c4ee81d47889 1.8/MoinMoin/widget/browser.py:
2009-07-27T12:46:49  <CIA-43> include only necessary browser autofilter options
2009-07-27T12:46:49  <CIA-43> If there are no empty fields, it's not necessary to
2009-07-27T12:46:49  <CIA-43> show the [empty] and [not empty] special autofilter
2009-07-27T12:46:49  <CIA-43> items since [not empty] will be equivalent to [all]
2009-07-27T12:46:52  <CIA-43> and [empty] will never match anything.
2009-07-27T12:47:33  <ThomasWaldmann> johill: ^^ thanks
2009-07-27T14:25:36  <dreimark> re
2009-07-27T14:25:38  <dreimark> hi johill
2009-07-27T14:48:08  <dennda> hi johill
2009-07-27T14:48:10  <dennda> :-)
2009-07-27T14:49:52  <dimazest> how can i enable debug logging?
2009-07-27T14:50:27  <ThomasWaldmann> in your logging configuration
2009-07-27T14:50:50  <ThomasWaldmann> see wikiserverlogging.conf
2009-07-27T14:51:07  <ThomasWaldmann> bbl
2009-07-27T14:51:24  <dimazest> ok
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2009-07-27T19:32:37  <CIA-43> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4351:43c468a525ef 1.8/MoinMoin/auth/ldap_login.py:
2009-07-27T19:32:37  <CIA-43> minor ldap auth improvements (see below)
2009-07-27T19:32:37  <CIA-43> Improved debug logging.
2009-07-27T19:32:37  <CIA-43> If you use multiple LDAPAuth instances, you need to have different .name
2009-07-27T19:32:38  <CIA-43> attrs in the instances or moin will complain.
2009-07-27T19:32:40  <CIA-43> Added a 'name' argument (default: 'ldap') that can be used for this.
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2009-07-27T21:00:11  <dreimark> any better idea than http://paste.pocoo.org/show/131102/
2009-07-27T21:02:31  <ThomasWaldmann> what's quiet=True?
2009-07-27T21:03:42  <dreimark> that removes the "Clear message" link below the msg in the theme
2009-07-27T21:06:13  <ThomasWaldmann> how does that help?
2009-07-27T21:07:13  <dreimark> one can't click on this link and won't be moved to LanguageSetup while he get message that he installed something
2009-07-27T21:08:33  <ThomasWaldmann> hmm. quiet is the wrong name for that.
2009-07-27T21:09:32  <dreimark> my feeling too. it behaves then similiar to a status line without the possibility to close it
2009-07-27T21:09:40  <ThomasWaldmann> also, it will confuse users who are used to click away that msgs.
2009-07-27T21:10:17  <dreimark> and it spells like a woraround now
2009-07-27T21:10:21  <dreimark> +k
2009-07-27T21:12:32  * dreimark can look how big the patch is to get querystr into send_page 
2009-07-27T21:30:59  <ThomasWaldmann> can't you just NOT call send_page?
2009-07-27T21:52:30  <dreimark> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/131120/ adds querystr to msg
2009-07-27T21:52:57  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: I think not because clear msg has no querystr
2009-07-27T21:53:40  <ThomasWaldmann> how is that related?
2009-07-27T21:54:43  <dreimark> if one clicks on Clear message he goes to LanguageSetup
2009-07-27T21:54:55  <dreimark> and not to the action with the right parameters
2009-07-27T21:55:03  <ThomasWaldmann> that patch is no good solution either, you can have multiple msgs, but only one of them will determine the link
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2009-07-27T21:56:30  <dreimark> I know currently I sort out ideas
2009-07-27T21:57:03  <johill> ThomasWaldmann: so the 'move to trash' thing also doesn't work if you create, delete, create again, delete again
2009-07-27T21:57:37  <ThomasWaldmann> that's no problem
2009-07-27T21:58:02  <johill> you'd have to rename it back on 'create again' or something
2009-07-27T21:58:08  <ThomasWaldmann> you just need to create unique new names in the trashbin and put the old name and deletion date into the metadata
2009-07-27T21:58:27  <johill> which metadata?
2009-07-27T21:58:31  <johill> there's no item any more then
2009-07-27T21:58:38  <ThomasWaldmann> (and one needs a trashbin view action)
2009-07-27T21:58:53  <ThomasWaldmann> delete = rename to trashbin
2009-07-27T21:58:58  <johill> sure
2009-07-27T21:59:37  <johill> (incidentally, I think the 'trashbin' name should be something like "//trash/..." since items starting with // are not possible normally)
2009-07-27T21:59:58  <johill> I guess the solution is to create a revision-free item
2009-07-27T22:00:03  <johill> with a metadata link to the trash item
2009-07-27T22:00:08  <johill> 'link'
2009-07-27T22:00:44  <johill> but that means that to keep backward compatible behaviour you need to follow the trash link when showing history
2009-07-27T22:00:46  <ThomasWaldmann> solution for what?
2009-07-27T22:01:22  <johill> and then, if you have the rename-over-deleted thing, all you really need to do is destroy the link-only item or so?
2009-07-27T22:02:27  <CIA-43> Dmitrijs Milajevs <dimazest@gmail.com> default * 4925:ffa42d34b210 1.9-xapian-dmilajevs/MoinMoin/support/xappy/ (27 files): Xapian2009: xappy library was added to the MoinMoin.support.
2009-07-27T22:02:28  <CIA-43> Dmitrijs Milajevs <dimazest@gmail.com> default * 4926:b0afbf750a24 1.9-xapian-dmilajevs/MoinMoin/search/Xapian.py: Xapian2009: Xapian Index._index_page_rev() was refactored and now uses xappy. Files and attachments are not indexed, indexing methods are still needed to be refactored.
2009-07-27T22:02:30  <CIA-43> Dmitrijs Milajevs <dimazest@gmail.com> default * 4927:75cbff83e907 1.9-xapian-dmilajevs/MoinMoin/search/ (Xapian.py builtin.py): Xapian2009:Part of xapian search code was refactored. Search._xapianMatch is broken must be refactored.
2009-07-27T22:02:44  <ThomasWaldmann> i don't see why you need that rev-free item
2009-07-27T22:03:04  <johill> to find the trash item when you want to show history of a deleted item
2009-07-27T22:03:42  <ThomasWaldmann> well, you could also look into the trashbin
2009-07-27T22:03:52  <johill> that could be rather expensive
2009-07-27T22:04:09  <johill> since it would mean a meta-data search on 'previous name'
2009-07-27T22:05:27  * ThomasWaldmann envisions just a "show trash" action that shows all in the trash with original name and deletion date
2009-07-27T22:05:40  <dimazest> dreimark: i've done basic page indexing
2009-07-27T22:05:52  <johill> ok sure, that works, but won't be compatible with the way the page history works now -- I certainly wouldn't mind
2009-07-27T22:06:03  <johill> (and in fact the admin destroy UI should probably be linked to that)
2009-07-27T22:06:09  <johill> (if any)
2009-07-27T22:06:10  <dimazest> and now refactor code which does searching (i'll do it tomorrow)
2009-07-27T22:06:23  <ThomasWaldmann> well, if we want to keep history over deletions, that would rather speak for keeping it at the same place
2009-07-27T22:06:33  <johill> I don't know if we want to
2009-07-27T22:06:34  <ThomasWaldmann> and appending whatever needs to get there
2009-07-27T22:06:36  <johill> but we did that before
2009-07-27T22:06:56  <johill> but I don't know how rename-over-deleted behaved before
2009-07-27T22:06:58  <dimazest> so, my plan for tomorrow, solve problem with _xapianMath and index files and attachments
2009-07-27T22:07:10  <ThomasWaldmann> johill: it rejected
2009-07-27T22:07:15  <johill> ah heh
2009-07-27T22:08:17  <ThomasWaldmann> how does hg do it?
2009-07-27T22:08:25  <ThomasWaldmann> or git?
2009-07-27T22:08:54  <johill> neither tracks deletions, do they?
2009-07-27T22:09:11  <johill> I mean, for git a deletion is just removing the object/file link from the tree
2009-07-27T22:09:20  <waldi> yep
2009-07-27T22:09:21  <johill> and a rename is just delete+add anyway
2009-07-27T22:09:37  <johill> (well, for git)
2009-07-27T22:09:37  <ThomasWaldmann> hg tracks renames iirc
2009-07-27T22:09:48  <johill> (the git UI will actually tell you it was a rename, but that's detected after the fact)
2009-07-27T22:10:25  <dreimark> dimazest: :) tell more
2009-07-27T22:11:36  <dimazest> dreimark: about what?
2009-07-27T22:13:03  <dimazest> btw in the beginning i updated http://moinmo.in/Xapian2009
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2009-07-27T22:13:17  <johill> ThomasWaldmann: the cleanest quite obviously would be to just get rid of the history-over-delete behaviour
2009-07-27T22:13:19  <dimazest> added fields and their types
2009-07-27T22:13:39  <johill> dimazest: out of curiosity, did you work with the new search term stuff from the storage api?
2009-07-27T22:13:44  <dreimark> dimazest: I have had to extract you messages from the nois by ThomasWaldmann and johill
2009-07-27T22:14:24  <dimazest> johill: i do not think so. is that new stuff is in 1.9?
2009-07-27T22:14:26  <dreimark> dimazest: plan sounds good
2009-07-27T22:14:51  <johill> dimazest: not a clue, I can't say I've followed moin in the past year or so
2009-07-27T22:15:13  <johill> dimazest: but I think you'd probably know if, so that answer means no
2009-07-27T22:15:34  <dimazest> johill: then probaly yes, because i'm following moin from this summer
2009-07-27T22:15:36  <dreimark> johill: currently work is done for 1.9
2009-07-27T22:16:06  <johill> dreimark: yeah but what's in 1.9? :)
2009-07-27T22:16:29  <ThomasWaldmann> johill: the moin/1.9-storage was not merged into 1.9, but continued in 2.0-storage
2009-07-27T22:17:19  <johill> ok
2009-07-27T22:17:24  <johill> that answers the question
2009-07-27T22:17:32  <dreimark> ok, was not aware of that
2009-07-27T22:18:08  <dreimark> the main work currently is to replace xapwrap by xappy and to fix the sorting issue of the result
2009-07-27T22:21:08  <ThomasWaldmann> johill: yes, i didn't want to do history-over-delete with trashbin
2009-07-27T22:23:07  <dreimark> dimazest: I have seen the changes of the Xapian page after lunch. the old approach has this item_id key self generated. So it becomes replaced by the id of xappy?
2009-07-27T22:27:32  <dimazest> dreimark: yes, and you can specify is explicitly
2009-07-27T22:27:49  <dimazest> and then get and replace documents using it
2009-07-27T22:27:53  <ThomasWaldmann> johill: so you think trashbin-delete is better than inplace-delete?
2009-07-27T22:28:24  * ThomasWaldmann is quite undecided
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2009-07-27T22:50:23  <johill> ThomasWaldmann: trade-off, I guess
2009-07-27T22:50:51  <johill> ThomasWaldmann: trashbin allows rename, in-place allows history across
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