MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2009-09-08

2009-09-08T01:26:29  <xorAxAx> TheSheep: sounds interesting
2009-09-08T01:39:46  <ThomasWaldmann> JosefMeier: have you seen the svg photo/film demos?
2009-09-08T01:40:03  <JosefMeier> on the jquery pages? no
2009-09-08T01:40:16  <JosefMeier> gimme a link please
2009-09-08T01:40:45  <ThomasWaldmann> http://codinginparadise.org/projects/svgweb/samples/demo.html?name=photos
2009-09-08T01:41:27  <JosefMeier> ah yes. it looks great
2009-09-08T01:41:44  <ThomasWaldmann> http://codinginparadise.org/projects/svgweb/samples/demo.html?name=videos
2009-09-08T01:41:49  <JosefMeier> these javascript libraries have the big advantage, that they work on all major browsers
2009-09-08T01:43:25  <ThomasWaldmann> iirc amartani also used jquery for realtimeeditor
2009-09-08T01:44:03  <JosefMeier> so we should include it in each page header
2009-09-08T01:44:10  <JosefMeier> cause it's very useful
2009-09-08T01:44:19  <ThomasWaldmann> 2.0
2009-09-08T01:44:23  <JosefMeier> why 2.0 ?
2009-09-08T01:44:32  <ThomasWaldmann> he did it in 2.0
2009-09-08T01:44:48  <JosefMeier> but I need it for the AnyWikiDraw editor
2009-09-08T01:44:56  <ThomasWaldmann> or rather: his forked repo of 2.0
2009-09-08T01:45:35  <ThomasWaldmann> start simple, finish that, improve
2009-09-08T01:45:45  <JosefMeier> If both the realtime editor and AnyWikiDraw need it, than we could include it also in 1.9
2009-09-08T01:46:05  <ThomasWaldmann> realtimeeditor won't get into 1.9
2009-09-08T01:46:12  <JosefMeier> yes. but anywikidraw
2009-09-08T01:46:31  <JosefMeier> Do you fear that something gets broken with jquery?
2009-09-08T01:46:46  <ThomasWaldmann> if you put too much stuff into it, you might miss some deadline :)
2009-09-08T01:46:56  <JosefMeier> I'm almost finished with it
2009-09-08T01:47:33  <JosefMeier> I'm preparing a showcase. Then we can decide how to progress further ;-)
2009-09-08T01:47:41  <ThomasWaldmann> ok
2009-09-08T01:50:48  <ThomasWaldmann> http://pics.nase-bohren.de/derp.jpg
2009-09-08T02:34:21  <JosefMeier> Found a bug with image maps
2009-09-08T02:34:45  <JosefMeier> If you have two images with the same name (one image is included from another page)
2009-09-08T02:35:09  <JosefMeier> and both images have image maps
2009-09-08T02:35:20  <JosefMeier> then their image maps are named the same
2009-09-08T02:35:28  <JosefMeier> this confuses browsers
2009-09-08T02:35:43  <JosefMeier> the solution: the image maps should have unique ids
2009-09-08T02:35:57  <JosefMeier> I add a counter to each image map id
2009-09-08T02:36:24  <JosefMeier> made a global var "imagemap_id = 0"
2009-09-08T02:36:37  <JosefMeier> and access it by...
2009-09-08T02:36:41  <JosefMeier> global imagemap_id
2009-09-08T02:36:46  <JosefMeier> ...
2009-09-08T02:36:53  <JosefMeier> imagemap_id += 1
2009-09-08T02:37:06  <JosefMeier> is this good coding style :-) ?
2009-09-08T02:37:22  <JosefMeier> I know the answer -> "make a changeset"
2009-09-08T02:37:24  <JosefMeier> yes yes
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2009-09-08T02:58:57  <JosefMeier> dreimark: are you ready for a revolution in image editing :-) ?
2009-09-08T03:34:57  <CIA-34> Josef Meier <jo.meier@gmx.de> default * 5092:0be3059a3379 1.9-draw/MoinMoin/action/anywikidraw.py:
2009-09-08T03:34:57  <CIA-34> Each drawing now has an additional edit text link which is linked to an drawing action.
2009-09-08T03:34:57  <CIA-34> This edit link text is wrapped in a div container which has a css class (can
2009-09-08T03:34:57  <CIA-34> easily be formatted by a css sheet). The edit link text and the drawing are also
2009-09-08T03:34:59  <CIA-34> contained in a div container with a css class. This additional container is
2009-09-08T03:35:01  <CIA-34> needed by the JavaScript code which shows or hides the div container if the
2009-09-08T03:35:03  <CIA-34> mouse pointer hovers over the image.
2009-09-08T03:35:05  <CIA-34> Josef Meier <jo.meier@gmx.de> default * 5093:b32b7daad9d5 1.9-draw/MoinMoin/action/anywikidraw.py: If two drawings with the same name are on a page, the image maps won't work correctly cause image maps ids have the same name. Solution: add a unique id to the image map id for each drawing.
2009-09-08T03:35:09  <CIA-34> Josef Meier <jo.meier@gmx.de> default * 5094:45aef86ec0bf 1.9-draw/MoinMoin/theme/__init__.py:
2009-09-08T03:35:12  <CIA-34> JavaScript code shows/hides the edit text link when the mouse pointer hovers over a drawing.
2009-09-08T03:35:14  <CIA-34> The popular JavaScript library "JQuery" and its plugin "hoverIntent" are used for that.
2009-09-08T03:35:18  <CIA-34> Josef Meier <jo.meier@gmx.de> default * 5095:b58f08d0b53f 1.9-draw/MoinMoin/web/static/htdocs/applets/anywikidraw/lib/AnyWikiDrawForMoinMoin.jar: The jar file wasn't signed. It doesn't work unsigned cause the applet tries to connect the server. Now the jar file is signed.
2009-09-08T03:35:26  <CIA-34> Josef Meier <jo.meier@gmx.de> default * 5096:5deba1e2177a 1.9-draw/MoinMoin/web/static/htdocs/common/js/jquery.hoverIntent.minified.js: Added the JQuery plugin "hoverIntent". It handles mouse hovering better than the original "hover" in JQuery.
2009-09-08T03:35:32  <CIA-34> Josef Meier <jo.meier@gmx.de> default * 5097:a1cd862a5362 1.9-draw/MoinMoin/web/static/htdocs/common/js/jquery.min.js: Added the popular JavaScript library "JQuery" (http://jquery.com).
2009-09-08T03:35:35  <CIA-34> Josef Meier <jo.meier@gmx.de> default * 5098:a8bfbcf9a9f4 1.9-draw/contrib/AnyWikiDraw/AnyWikiDraw/nbproject/ (5 files in 2 dirs): Slightly updated the NetBeans project.
2009-09-08T03:36:58  <JosefMeier> dreimark: Ups. I didn't see that you recently uploaded a signed Jar file. Thats why I got problems be commiting mine and pushing it.
2009-09-08T03:40:12  <JosefMeier> If you now create a AnyWikiDraw image, you can edit it by hovering the mouse pointer over the png image. After a second a text link with the name  "Edit drawing" occurs over the image. By pressing it you will start the AnyWikiDraw applet. If the mouse pointer moves out of the drawing, the edit text link will disappear in approx. two seconds. Image maps are working now also.
2009-09-08T03:40:21  <JosefMeier> good night. May the force be with you.
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2009-09-08T09:30:08  <dreimark> moin
2009-09-08T09:40:02  <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2009-09-08T09:53:47  <dreimark> now we have to heads in 1.9-draw
2009-09-08T09:54:41  <ThomasWaldmann> yeah, josef already wondered about it tonight
2009-09-08T09:54:59  <dreimark> seems he didn't recognize that he did not work alone in this repo
2009-09-08T09:55:05  <dreimark> but I told him
2009-09-08T09:55:11  <dreimark> many times
2009-09-08T09:55:41  <dreimark> good that we can train that in that repo
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2009-09-08T11:37:17  <JosefMeier> Moin Moin
2009-09-08T12:05:23  <dreimark> JosefMeier: please merge and commit
2009-09-08T12:05:31  <dreimark> http://hgbook.red-bean.com/read/a-tour-of-mercurial-merging-work.html
2009-09-08T12:05:54  <dreimark> that solves the two head mess
2009-09-08T12:07:54  <dreimark> JosefMeier: I'd sent an email to you at 9
2009-09-08T12:10:14  <dreimark> can that scrolling of the image be avoided when the Edit drawing string appears
2009-09-08T12:10:30  <dreimark> ?
2009-09-08T12:12:23  <dreimark> (it is not easy to hit a mapping if it moves)
2009-09-08T12:12:35  <dreimark> besides that nice feature
2009-09-08T12:13:51  <dreimark> btw. there is not converter possible between tdraw and svg by anywikidraw
2009-09-08T12:13:54  <dreimark> it is not compatible
2009-09-08T12:24:03  <JosefMeier> The sliding edit text works also for you?
2009-09-08T12:25:27  <JosefMeier> thats nice. the moving image can be suboptimal. It's just a proposal
2009-09-08T12:26:40  <JosefMeier> dreimark: so maybe people can live with converting twikidraw drawings to svg manually?
2009-09-08T12:41:06  <dreimark> haven't seen it  not much time now
2009-09-08T12:41:27  <dreimark> after the merge main part from you t shows up directly and i don't make another mess myself
2009-09-08T12:42:14  <dreimark> the problem is when it is converted t osvg by what would it be edited
2009-09-08T12:42:22  <dreimark> +will
2009-09-08T12:42:28  <dreimark> gtg
2009-09-08T12:42:30  <dreimark> bbl
2009-09-08T12:44:08  <JosefMeier> Didn't understand you I fear.
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2009-09-08T14:38:19  <JosefMeier> I'm trying to program an automatically created freemind sitemap plugin/action for MoinMoin
2009-09-08T14:39:31  <JosefMeier> Want to use the "sitemap" action for that cause it creates a xml file from the structure. FeatureRequest: http://www.moinmo.in/FeatureRequests/BetterStructureAndNavigationThroughSitemaps
2009-09-08T15:03:09  <JosefMeier> For freemind two viewers exist (both with source code available): a flash viewer (which is only 50kByte in size and starts very quick) or a java based viewer (around 1MByte and starts slowly).
2009-09-08T15:03:27  <JosefMeier> personally I would prefer the flash viewer cause of its faster starting time
2009-09-08T15:03:58  <JosefMeier> but: this would mean a new programming language. at least ActionScript (programming language for flash) looks very similar to JavaScript and Java
2009-09-08T15:04:21  <JosefMeier> there are free IDEs and compilers for ActionScript. So this wouldn't be the problem here.
2009-09-08T15:20:17  <xorAxAx> why does it need to be modified?
2009-09-08T15:25:08  <JosefMeier> what?
2009-09-08T15:25:20  <JosefMeier> you mean the viewer?
2009-09-08T15:39:52  <TheSheep> JosefMeier: as long as there is automated test and build environment, that's ok
2009-09-08T15:40:28  <xorAxAx> JosefMeier: yes
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2009-09-08T16:49:58  * dreimark and ThomasWaldmann greets from dlr techtalk
2009-09-08T16:50:36  <dreimark> JosefMeier: please merge the two heads in 1.9-draw
2009-09-08T16:51:36  <dreimark> actionsscript  can be used for evil attacks
2009-09-08T16:53:10  <JosefMeier> like everything anyhow ?
2009-09-08T16:53:18  <dreimark> hg merge
2009-09-08T16:54:41  <JosefMeier> "outstanding commited merges" :-( how can I see what I have to commit?
2009-09-08T16:55:16  <dreimark> you have to merge
2009-09-08T16:55:28  <JosefMeier> but what?
2009-09-08T16:55:42  <dreimark> then you do a merge commit, I have send a doumentation this morning, see backlog
2009-09-08T16:56:02  <dreimark> hg merge
2009-09-08T16:56:05  <dreimark> hg commit
2009-09-08T16:56:44  <dreimark> the merge is because we both have worked on the same file
2009-09-08T16:56:51  <dreimark> that is normal
2009-09-08T16:57:07  <dreimark> see 1.9 and look for merged main, happens often
2009-09-08T16:58:00  <dreimark> JosefMeier: and for action script there is a safe parser needed similiar to the html parser
2009-09-08T16:58:23  <CIA-34> Josef Meier <jo.meier@gmx.de> default * 5099:f5b451e03e45 1.9-draw/ (2 files in 2 dirs): Merged changes
2009-09-08T16:58:38  <JosefMeier> dreimark: the compiled result for ActionScript is a SWF file
2009-09-08T16:58:46  <dreimark> inside is a script
2009-09-08T16:58:53  <dreimark> this must be parsed safe
2009-09-08T16:58:55  <JosefMeier> I didn't mean that
2009-09-08T16:59:04  <JosefMeier> I ment the executable
2009-09-08T16:59:21  <JosefMeier> ok. I did a "hg commit -m 'merged changes' followed by a push
2009-09-08T16:59:22  <dreimark> swf is excluded because of xss attacks
2009-09-08T16:59:50  <JosefMeier> Ok. But if it is a plugin a user can choose
2009-09-08T16:59:56  <JosefMeier> <- Intranet
2009-09-08T17:00:33  <JosefMeier> do we have only one tip now in the repo?
2009-09-08T17:01:15  <xorAxAx> JosefMeier: still waiting for an answer
2009-09-08T17:01:32  <JosefMeier> xorAxAx: I still answered
2009-09-08T17:01:37  <xorAxAx> JosefMeier: ?
2009-09-08T17:01:49  <JosefMeier> [15:53]       <JosefMeier>    xorAxAx: cause maybe we want to extend its functionallity. But only "maybe"
2009-09-08T17:02:02  <xorAxAx> that message wasnt transmitted
2009-09-08T17:02:10  <xorAxAx> ok
2009-09-08T17:02:14  <JosefMeier> sorry. than my irc client hang
2009-09-08T17:03:29  <JosefMeier> It disconnects me from time to time
2009-09-08T17:05:06  <JosefMeier> dreimark: Can I push my freemind sitemap stuff also in 1.9-draw?
2009-09-08T17:22:54  <dreimark> better not
2009-09-08T17:23:28  <dreimark> finish the 1.9-draw first
2009-09-08T17:27:11  <JosefMeier> So its worth a new repo?
2009-09-08T17:27:48  <JosefMeier> For the drawing stuff we need a few decisions.
2009-09-08T17:28:06  <JosefMeier> like if the method for the edit text is ok or not
2009-09-08T17:33:30  <JosefMeier> I could also try to let the edit field fade to the right. then the image wouldn't move.
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2009-09-08T21:06:17  <dennda> app install on osx is almost as bad as on win32
2009-09-08T21:07:15  <dennda> now my mercurial install is broken and I cant pull. and the only 'apt'-like tool on osx builds ALL of the programs dependencies itself. including python, which itself includes sqlite3, tk and thus xorg and the like...
2009-09-08T21:11:27  <dreimark> JosefMeier: can we get the edit button link for the drawing into the editbar, that it appears there?
2009-09-08T21:13:23  <dreimark> TheSheep: can you review http://hg.moinmo.in/moin/extensions/file/6b1cc30131d6/data/plugin/action/SlideShow.py and http://hg.moinmo.in/moin/extensions/file/6b1cc30131d6/htdocs/SlideShow/css/SlideShow.css
2009-09-08T21:13:47  <dreimark> that is currently 1.8 compatible.
2009-09-08T21:14:56  <dreimark> May be u could just make it a bit better css than me. You are so fast. We want to refactor the action and add it to 1.9 too.
2009-09-08T21:15:48  <JosefMeier> dreimark: which editbar do you mean?
2009-09-08T21:16:38  <dreimark> the editbar starts with Edit
2009-09-08T21:17:27  <JosefMeier> you mean that bar above the page?
2009-09-08T21:18:16  <dreimark> yes
2009-09-08T21:18:19  <JosefMeier> dreimark: If the edit text link slides on the bottom of the picture, the picture won't move.
2009-09-08T21:18:52  <JosefMeier> It would look cool, you recognize the edit button immediately and ... so on :-)
2009-09-08T21:19:04  <dreimark> why not at the edit bar?
2009-09-08T21:19:17  <dreimark> it is outside of the whole content
2009-09-08T21:19:37  <dreimark> it is at a region where all the other edit function could be found
2009-09-08T21:19:45  <JosefMeier> but usability would be better if some editbar slides out of the object which you want to edit
2009-09-08T21:19:58  <JosefMeier> would also be similar to the arnica plugin
2009-09-08T21:20:30  <JosefMeier> usability is the key here. I <- typical user would love to see a edit bar slide out of my picture :-)
2009-09-08T21:20:31  <dreimark> arnica won't be added to 1.9
2009-09-08T21:21:05  <JosefMeier> edit bar sliding on the bottom of a pic would be ok?
2009-09-08T21:21:56  <dreimark> it scrools then the content below down
2009-09-08T21:22:03  <JosefMeier> but its ok
2009-09-08T21:22:14  <JosefMeier> would you be disturbed of that?
2009-09-08T21:22:16  <JosefMeier> it looks cool
2009-09-08T21:22:25  <JosefMeier> <- my opinion
2009-09-08T21:22:36  <JosefMeier> looks like high tech
2009-09-08T21:22:42  <JosefMeier> elegant, smooth, stylish
2009-09-08T21:22:51  <dreimark> one would want to pistioning by css to another place is that possible?
2009-09-08T21:23:09  <dreimark> s/pistioning/positioning/
2009-09-08T21:23:33  <JosefMeier> we could make it configurable in the action
2009-09-08T21:23:39  <JosefMeier> left, right, bottom, top, edit bar
2009-09-08T21:24:01  <JosefMeier> and the style could be changed by css
2009-09-08T21:24:14  <dreimark> but it moves the content down?
2009-09-08T21:24:19  <dreimark> which is below?
2009-09-08T21:24:36  <JosefMeier> hm. yes. but who knows if it disturbes users?
2009-09-08T21:24:53  <JosefMeier> maybe the users find it more cool to have this awesome slide effect
2009-09-08T21:25:00  <JosefMeier> I will show it to my friends
2009-09-08T21:25:35  <dreimark> is it possible to add it in the edit bar?
2009-09-08T21:25:40  <JosefMeier> dont know
2009-09-08T21:25:52  <JosefMeier> can we make a compromise: we make it configurable
2009-09-08T21:25:52  <dreimark> because in 2.0 it will be only in the editbar
2009-09-08T21:26:02  <JosefMeier> hm
2009-09-08T21:26:05  <dreimark> it is named there modify
2009-09-08T21:26:22  <dreimark> I think we should not add features which we have to reject later
2009-09-08T21:26:29  <JosefMeier> but I love that feature
2009-09-08T21:26:43  <JosefMeier> can we talk about how it will be done in 2.0 ?
2009-09-08T21:26:54  <dreimark> well I love arnica but I also see that it is better to add it refactored to 2.0
2009-09-08T21:27:13  <JosefMeier> good point
2009-09-08T21:27:20  <JosefMeier> everybody loves his baby
2009-09-08T21:27:46  <JosefMeier> have you made some proposals about future usability of moinmoin?
2009-09-08T21:28:16  <JosefMeier> personally I find it more intuitive if I have the edit features close to the object I want to modify
2009-09-08T21:28:27  <dreimark> that is in 2.0
2009-09-08T21:28:30  <dreimark> given
2009-09-08T21:28:44  <JosefMeier> and why?
2009-09-08T21:28:51  <dreimark> because of the design
2009-09-08T21:29:11  <dreimark> you can read the talk from today http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinTalks/DLR-2009-09-08
2009-09-08T21:29:41  <dreimark> and clone 2.0-storage and play with the yet implemented stuff
2009-09-08T21:30:37  <dreimark> dennda: and ThomasWaldmann can give details
2009-09-08T21:31:13  <JosefMeier> cool. was this your presentation today?
2009-09-08T21:31:25  * dreimark some too but I have proposed another talk tom. at pycolgne
2009-09-08T21:31:30  <dreimark> JosefMeier: yes
2009-09-08T21:31:52  <dreimark> btw. there is a py user group in munich too
2009-09-08T21:33:28  <JosefMeier> If 2.0 is such a big new thing than why not change usability and add some eye candy?
2009-09-08T21:34:00  <JosefMeier> cause putting edit links in the edit bar in my opinion is not a god given thing
2009-09-08T21:34:32  <dreimark> discuss it with dennda and ThomasWaldmann or may be better write a page about it first
2009-09-08T21:35:19  <dreimark> an edit link for every item on a view may be look strange too
2009-09-08T21:36:48  <JosefMeier> I'll do that. And I have an example of why why should add edit possibilities close to items:
2009-09-08T21:36:50  <JosefMeier> GUI editor
2009-09-08T21:37:06  <dreimark> try it in 2.0
2009-09-08T21:37:21  <dreimark> it is there only a mimetype which you edit by an action
2009-09-08T21:37:22  <JosefMeier> Tables, Text, Images is modified by clicking on it
2009-09-08T21:37:52  <dreimark> after you started the guieditor using the link on the editbar
2009-09-08T21:38:07  <JosefMeier> But this switches only to edit mode
2009-09-08T21:38:18  <JosefMeier> IN edit mode I change items by clicking on them
2009-09-08T21:38:23  <dreimark> that is the same with awd you switch the editmode
2009-09-08T21:38:31  <dreimark> then you click on a rectangle and move it
2009-09-08T21:38:46  <JosefMeier> I would call it a quick edit mode
2009-09-08T21:39:05  <JosefMeier> I point to a drawing, tell the drawing that I want to edit it and edit it
2009-09-08T21:39:20  <dreimark> look at 2.0 first
2009-09-08T21:39:33  <dreimark> it is different
2009-09-08T21:39:35  <JosefMeier> Hm
2009-09-08T21:39:51  <JosefMeier> Is there any need for this cool JavaScript effects?
2009-09-08T21:40:23  <JosefMeier> maybe we can provide switches which will offer different styles of usability
2009-09-08T21:40:38  <dreimark> in principle I would say yes, I would prefer a page whith a list where effects make sense and then they should become implemented
2009-09-08T21:41:22  <dreimark> but also I want this in 2.0
2009-09-08T21:41:41  <JosefMeier> why always everything only in 2.0 ?
2009-09-08T21:41:47  <dreimark> there is much more playground because it gets the jinja change
2009-09-08T21:41:48  <JosefMeier> cause we have more time to test it there?
2009-09-08T21:42:19  <JosefMeier> Interesting
2009-09-08T21:42:46  <dreimark> testing is one part, changing the design the other
2009-09-08T21:43:40  <JosefMeier> OK. You mean that before 2.0 radical changes in design shouldn't be done
2009-09-08T21:43:45  <dreimark> yes
2009-09-08T21:43:58  <JosefMeier> hm
2009-09-08T21:44:19  <dreimark> if you do earlier we rather can't keep them because of the theming change
2009-09-08T21:44:29  <dreimark> then it is twice time confusing users
2009-09-08T21:44:33  <JosefMeier> But this also means, that a sliding editbar on drawings would be possible in 2.0?
2009-09-08T21:45:10  <dreimark> principle yes but also it must be implemented for other items
2009-09-08T21:45:16  <dreimark> not only drawing
2009-09-08T21:45:26  <JosefMeier> For sure. I would love that
2009-09-08T21:45:39  <JosefMeier> Did you make some kind of usability discussion for 2.0 ?
2009-09-08T21:46:26  <dreimark> not completed yet, this real discussion starts after we found a jinja developer who likes to work on the theme
2009-09-08T21:46:53  * dreimark pizza ready -> eats now
2009-09-08T21:47:04  <JosefMeier> pizza makes you fat, dreimark :-)
2009-09-08T21:47:13  <JosefMeier> fat people think more slowly.
2009-09-08T21:47:26  <JosefMeier> ;-)
2009-09-08T21:48:12  <JosefMeier> Don't you think that usability discussions should be done without having programming in mind?
2009-09-08T21:49:40  <dreimark> there are useability discussions on the wiki already
2009-09-08T21:50:00  <dreimark> this is a medium term issue and images are better discussed on the wiki
2009-09-08T21:50:56  <JosefMeier> btw: enjoy :-)
2009-09-08T22:35:38  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: I want to add .DS_Store to .hgignore. Shall I just do that in 2.0-storage or do you want it in 1.9 and pull it from there as well? The file is some crap that osx's file browser leaves there
2009-09-08T22:51:15  *** LotekThirteen has joined #moin-dev
2009-09-08T22:51:18  *** LotekThirteen has left #moin-dev
2009-09-08T22:53:41  <JosefMeier> dennda: What do you think about sliding edit bars on drawings like in hg.moinmo.in/moin/1.9-draw ?=
2009-09-08T23:56:14  <ThomasWaldmann> re
2009-09-08T23:56:58  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: i can add it to 1.8
2009-09-08T23:57:05  <ThomasWaldmann> anything else?