MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2009-09-10

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2009-09-10T01:40:45  <y84> another mimetype candidate for wikiutil.py/MIMETYPES_MORE:  .wmv = video/x-ms-wmv
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2009-09-10T09:20:34  <CIA-34> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4397:10785c0fd48f 1.8/MoinMoin/wikiutil.py: add mimetype video/x-ms-wmv to wikiutil
2009-09-10T09:42:09  <dreimark> moin
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2009-09-10T13:04:31  <CIA-34> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4398:294b97b991d3 1.8/MoinMoin/ (caching.py util/filesys.py):
2009-09-10T13:04:31  <CIA-34> work around windows caching lock problems (see details below)
2009-09-10T13:04:31  <CIA-34> caching: fix wrong releasing of lock (if lock acquiring failed)
2009-09-10T13:04:31  <CIA-34> caching: increase the timeout for trying to acquire a lock (1s -> 10s)
2009-09-10T13:04:31  <CIA-34> filesys: increase retries for filesystem operations on win32 from 10 to 42
2009-09-10T13:04:34  <CIA-34> The underlying reason that makes these ugly workarounds in filesys necessary
2009-09-10T13:04:36  <CIA-34> so it works on win32 is still unknown.
2009-09-10T13:09:38  <TheSheep> gotta love windows
2009-09-10T13:10:01  <TheSheep> sqlite backend seems to have a lot of sense suddenly
2009-09-10T13:16:10  <ThomasWaldmann> hehe, yeah. but it is still much slower than fs.
2009-09-10T13:17:16  <dreimark> everything is slow there
2009-09-10T13:18:38  <ThomasWaldmann> and caching is currently not using the storage backends, so these problems are still there if you use mm20 and sqlite backend
2009-09-10T13:20:36  <ThomasWaldmann> for the filesys retries: in the logs, I have seen "stat" (or some other fs op) failing 7 times in sequence and succeeding with the 8th call. 10ms pause between calls.
2009-09-10T13:23:09  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, it happens more often, if one is logged in (likely because the session system also uses caching)
2009-09-10T13:34:08  <xorAxAx> stat failing how?
2009-09-10T13:42:23  <ThomasWaldmann> EACCESS (access denied)
2009-09-10T13:42:46  <ThomasWaldmann> see the weird workaround code in MoinMoin.util.filesys
2009-09-10T13:43:18  <ThomasWaldmann> bbl
2009-09-10T14:02:52  <dreimark> bbl2
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2009-09-10T15:18:45  <CIA-34> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 5100:534320e7e0ee 1.9-draw/MoinMoin/action/anywikidraw.py: action.anywikidraw: removed to changeset 5082:bde680d31a1a besides applet definition change
2009-09-10T15:18:46  <CIA-34> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 5101:7ad4e095339f 1.9-draw/MoinMoin/action/anywikidraw.py: action.anywikidraw: PEP8 whitespace fix
2009-09-10T15:18:48  <CIA-34> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 5102:fc2f8a97b101 1.9-draw/MoinMoin/action/anywikidraw.py: action.anywikidraw:ToDo, XXX adjusted
2009-09-10T15:36:10  <dimazest> moin!
2009-09-10T15:36:43  <dimazest> finally i'm in Italy, did one exam end this evening have some time for moin ;)
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2009-09-10T16:57:13  <JosefMeier> If there a reason why the MoinMoin extensions from the markets are not in the mercurial repositories?
2009-09-10T16:59:21  <JosefMeier> If one wants to get the news version of an extension, he could get it more easily
2009-09-10T16:59:27  <JosefMeier> s/news/newest
2009-09-10T17:04:24  <TheSheep> they are 3rd party extensions
2009-09-10T17:04:47  <TheSheep> the official ones are shipped with moin
2009-09-10T17:11:43  <JosefMeier> but also the 3rd party extensions are not hosted on mercurial (hg.moinmo.in...). Wouldn't that be better?
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2009-09-10T17:34:24  <ThomasWaldmann> re
2009-09-10T17:35:09  <ThomasWaldmann> dimazest: ah, great :)
2009-09-10T17:37:28  <ThomasWaldmann> dimazest: maybe have a look at the xapian stuff (e.g. date search "since 2 weeks", result ordering)
2009-09-10T17:38:40  <ThomasWaldmann> JosefMeier: we have some extensions in the moin/extensions repo, but that is mostly the "still in development" or "unofficial" stuff from ourselves
2009-09-10T17:39:22  <ThomasWaldmann> and the general problem with code is maintenance
2009-09-10T17:40:07  <ThomasWaldmann> if some code gets into moin distribution, it needs to be maintained there, adapted to changes in moin core, bug fixed, security fixed, etc.
2009-09-10T17:40:36  <ThomasWaldmann> if there is a maintainer who does that and the code is generally useful for most people, no problem, then it can get into moin distribution
2009-09-10T17:41:31  <JosefMeier> So could I get access to this extension repo? I made a cool freemind sitemap plugin for Moin 1.9
2009-09-10T17:45:24  <JosefMeier> ThomasWaldmann: ?
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2009-09-10T18:05:02  <xorAxAx> JosefMeier: you could create such a repo
2009-09-10T18:05:20  <xorAxAx> JosefMeier: and maintain it or organise maintainership
2009-09-10T18:05:37  <JosefMeier> xorAxAx: I have only restricted access to hg.moinmo.in
2009-09-10T18:05:43  <ThomasWaldmann> but what happens with stuff with not too many coders regularly caring for, you can see at docbook or rst or rss feed or even the gui editor
2009-09-10T18:06:11  <xorAxAx> JosefMeier: thats a minor issue
2009-09-10T18:06:17  <ThomasWaldmann> JosefMeier: i can give you access to the extensions repo
2009-09-10T18:06:32  <xorAxAx> JosefMeier: you can start creating the repo now, thomas will let you push it later
2009-09-10T18:07:13  <ThomasWaldmann> JosefMeier: btw, you know "time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."?
2009-09-10T18:07:47  <ThomasWaldmann> (i especially mean the left part with respect to drawing stuff in 1.9 :)
2009-09-10T18:07:56  <JosefMeier> ThomasWaldmann: I'm just a poor lower bavarian. I don't know much about the big world ;-)
2009-09-10T18:08:27  <JosefMeier> ThomasWaldmann: I still have no consense with dreimark about how to implement the edit text
2009-09-10T18:08:29  <ThomasWaldmann> hm?
2009-09-10T18:08:53  <ThomasWaldmann> the edit text?
2009-09-10T18:09:58  <JosefMeier> yes. cause I prefer to have it sliding out of the drawing if you hover over it with the mouse pointer
2009-09-10T18:10:22  <JosefMeier> but I learned that in 2.0 everything will be in the editbar
2009-09-10T18:11:29  <ThomasWaldmann> I am not sure I understand what you mean.
2009-09-10T18:11:51  <JosefMeier> have you tried 1.9-draw ?
2009-09-10T18:12:02  <ThomasWaldmann> not yet
2009-09-10T18:14:27  <JosefMeier> If you hover with the mouse pointer over a drawing then a edit text will smoothly slide out of the drawing. If you press the edit text, you can edit the drawing. Better try it yourself.
2009-09-10T18:14:42  <JosefMeier> What's the most important stuff for the drawing?
2009-09-10T18:14:55  <JosefMeier> in your opinion?
2009-09-10T18:15:12  <ThomasWaldmann> ah, you mean kind of a sliding edit button
2009-09-10T18:15:32  <ThomasWaldmann> does it have real text, like "edit"?
2009-09-10T18:16:10  <ThomasWaldmann> most important is that it works, it is simple, it has no regressions, easy migration path, ... :)
2009-09-10T18:16:31  <ThomasWaldmann> if it has real text, does it have i18n?
2009-09-10T18:18:51  <ThomasWaldmann> JosefMeier: you have access to moin/extensions now. be careful. :)
2009-09-10T18:19:09  <ThomasWaldmann> (and clean :)
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2009-09-10T18:33:40  <JosefMeier> ThomasWaldmann: It can have i18n cause it is text "Edit drawing". I use the JQuery library for that
2009-09-10T18:34:20  <JosefMeier> ThomasWaldmann: I can create a online repo but don't have to care about user rights hopefully?
2009-09-10T18:43:17  <JosefMeier> bbl
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2009-09-10T19:15:21  * ThomasWaldmann creates a new 1.8.5 archive with the caching lock fix
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2009-09-10T19:49:29  <ThomasWaldmann> 779543d32dacc904c306d5d8ace99207  moin-1.8.5.tar.gz
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2009-09-10T20:27:37  <JosefMeier> ThomasWaldmann: Then we could add my BR macro hiding stuff also?
2009-09-10T20:28:03  <JosefMeier> and also my attachment and picture searching enhancments for the GUI editor :-)
2009-09-10T20:28:08  <JosefMeier> I added a search button
2009-09-10T20:28:18  <JosefMeier> So you dont have to remember the names of attachments
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2009-09-10T21:22:46  <dreimark> dimazest: :)
2009-09-10T21:27:23  <dreimark> JosefMeier: do you have seen the XXX and ToDo in the anywikidraw action
2009-09-10T21:33:01  <JosefMeier> dreimark: Just saw it.
2009-09-10T21:33:20  <JosefMeier> Can you take the wsgi part? Have no knowledge in it
2009-09-10T21:34:25  <dreimark> JosefMeier: I have no idea what do youu mean by "take the wsgi part"
2009-09-10T21:35:11  <JosefMeier> dreimark: # XXX gives -1 for wsgiref :( If this is fixed, we could use the file obj,
2009-09-10T21:35:30  <JosefMeier> #168
2009-09-10T21:36:15  <dreimark> http://hg.moinmo.in/moin/1.9-draw/rev/fc2f8a97b101
2009-09-10T21:36:22  * dreimark has no idea 
2009-09-10T21:37:17  * dreimark was talking about anywikidraw
2009-09-10T21:37:17  <JosefMeier> dreimark: now I'm with you
2009-09-10T21:37:55  <JosefMeier> I tried to have some static global variable to have a counter for each image
2009-09-10T21:38:10  <JosefMeier> therefore the "global imagemap_id"
2009-09-10T21:38:14  <dreimark> why
2009-09-10T21:38:30  <JosefMeier> cause I had a problem with image maps of drawings with the same name
2009-09-10T21:38:37  <JosefMeier> Example:
2009-09-10T21:38:46  <JosefMeier> on a page is a drawing named "foo"
2009-09-10T21:39:01  <JosefMeier> included on the same page is a drawing from a different page also with name "foo"
2009-09-10T21:39:09  <JosefMeier> then both image maps have the same name
2009-09-10T21:39:12  <JosefMeier> same id
2009-09-10T21:39:20  <JosefMeier> and the browser gets confused
2009-09-10T21:39:33  <JosefMeier> so I tried to add a unique number to the ids of the image maps
2009-09-10T21:39:34  <dreimark> how
2009-09-10T21:39:47  <JosefMeier> the image maps dont work anymore
2009-09-10T21:40:05  <JosefMeier> cause the browser sees two different image maps but with the same id
2009-09-10T21:40:05  <dreimark> we have another mechan. already for unique id, lets see
2009-09-10T21:40:33  * dreimark looks
2009-09-10T21:40:38  <JosefMeier> ok
2009-09-10T21:51:36  <dreimark> TOC has the same problem search for uid and also look into the formatter
2009-09-10T21:53:01  <dreimark> make_id_unique does it in text_html
2009-09-10T21:53:54  <dreimark> JosefMeier: please do it similiar
2009-09-10T21:54:20  <JosefMeier> ok. thx
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2009-09-10T23:26:33  <JosefMeier> dreimark: Is there a chance that we can include JQuers.js (50kB) in the headers of version 1.9 ? It does nothing bad if you don't use it. But if you want to use it, than it has to be included in the header
2009-09-10T23:26:37  <JosefMeier> of the html page
2009-09-10T23:26:49  <JosefMeier> sorry: JQuery.js
2009-09-10T23:27:32  <JosefMeier> My cool sitemap extension likes to have JQuery also
2009-09-10T23:27:49  <JosefMeier> ThomasWaldmann: ?
2009-09-10T23:34:15  <dreimark> JosefMeier: I am undecided currently, it is a good idea to get ideas / tools using it. but it is also important to collect first where is may make sense and then to look at the JavaScript Accessibility Issues
2009-09-10T23:34:55  <dreimark> s/is/it/
2009-09-10T23:35:58  <JosefMeier> dreimark: what do you mean with "accessibility" ?
2009-09-10T23:36:19  <dreimark> Ithink you have also seen the comment on the NewImageEditor page
2009-09-10T23:36:22  <JosefMeier> Do you mean that there could be problems if JavaScript is turned off for some reason?
2009-09-10T23:36:36  <JosefMeier> yes. I didn't understand that either
2009-09-10T23:38:30  <JosefMeier> dreimark: "accessibility" ? What's your definition of that?
2009-09-10T23:38:53  <dreimark> JavaScript allows developers to add increased interaction, information processing, and control in web-based content. However, JavaScript can also introduce accessibility issues. These issues include:
2009-09-10T23:38:58  <dreimark> read it there
2009-09-10T23:40:05  <dreimark> if you do 1. you also have to do 2.
2009-09-10T23:46:13  <JosefMeier> dreimark: This means that if theres a way to edit an image also without JavaScript, then we could use the cosmetic sliding stuff with JQuery?
2009-09-10T23:46:47  <JosefMeier> Or are you against cosmetic and fancy things in MoinMoin?
2009-09-10T23:48:17  <dreimark> No I just want to have a prposal as I told many times before
2009-09-10T23:48:29  <dreimark> s/prposal/propsal/
2009-09-10T23:48:48  <dreimark> and i want this discussed with Oliver and other accesibility specialists
2009-09-10T23:50:52  <JosefMeier> The proposal is there since more than a week. Maybe it's not the kind of proposal you like to see but then I have to know that.
2009-09-10T23:51:07  <dreimark> no I think you don't understand
2009-09-10T23:51:13  <JosefMeier> seems so
2009-09-10T23:51:17  <dreimark> why should i shoot me in my foot?
2009-09-10T23:51:23  <JosefMeier> ?
2009-09-10T23:57:24  <dreimark> the proposal is about a new plugin using jhotdraw and not about where in moin it could/should be used and how
2009-09-10T23:59:03  * dreimark tries to find a problem in awd I have introduced by adding tc