MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2009-10-10

2009-10-10T00:09:21  <CIA-34> Radomir Dopieralski <moindev@sheep.art.pl> default * 5197:df9c332ed6a0 1.9/MoinMoin/theme/__init__.py: Modernized theme: add a span with "pagepath" class to title_with_separators
2009-10-10T00:36:03  <JosefMeier> gn8
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2009-10-10T06:14:19  <JosefMeier> Moin Moin
2009-10-10T07:45:01  <JosefMeier> There is now way to get all URLs on a page like file:// ?
2009-10-10T08:02:37  <JosefMeier> I'll try to extend the base formatter for that
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2009-10-10T10:12:01  <CIA-34> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 5198:051c7d3deecf 1.9/MoinMoin/action/RenamePage.py: action.RenamePage: fixed subpages_checked form data
2009-10-10T10:22:23  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: the same is in DeletePage and AttachFile ... I just wonder currently why it does not fail for me while it is wrong
2009-10-10T10:22:47  <dreimark>  request.form.get needs to be request.values.get
2009-10-10T10:25:34  <dreimark> bbl
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2009-10-10T12:06:36  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: explain that fix please
2009-10-10T12:09:12  <ThomasWaldmann> JosefMeier: file:// urls are usually a problem
2009-10-10T12:09:57  <ThomasWaldmann> and be aware that parsers/formatters are gone after 1.9
2009-10-10T12:10:01  <JosefMeier> ThomasWaldmann: currently I'm writing an action/formatter for that
2009-10-10T12:10:03  <JosefMeier> lol
2009-10-10T12:10:08  <JosefMeier> aha
2009-10-10T12:10:34  <JosefMeier> ThomasWaldmann: no parsers/formatters in 1.9? what has replaced them?
2009-10-10T12:10:52  <ThomasWaldmann> "after"
2009-10-10T12:11:04  <JosefMeier> puh :)
2009-10-10T12:11:29  <ThomasWaldmann> domtree converters
2009-10-10T12:12:04  <JosefMeier> ThomasWaldmann: If data is stored on a network drive, like in our company than there is a big need of file:// links. That's why we have to provide a way to list broken file links.
2009-10-10T12:12:35  <ThomasWaldmann> read the FileLinks page
2009-10-10T12:13:56  <ThomasWaldmann> and read my fileserver storage backend in 2.0 :)
2009-10-10T12:15:12  <JosefMeier> I'm sorry that 2.0 in this case is no big help for me as I need that solution now.
2009-10-10T12:16:06  <JosefMeier> And I know that file:// is dangerous and that browsers don't follow this links by default.
2009-10-10T12:16:30  <JosefMeier> But in an Intranet things often are not that dangerous.
2009-10-10T12:17:00  <JosefMeier> Thought also to create some kind of alias on apache to the network so we can access data through http but that's a security risk too, I think
2009-10-10T12:17:40  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe think about serving the static files with a web server and using interwiki links to them
2009-10-10T12:18:21  <ThomasWaldmann> yes, if course you only can do that with public files
2009-10-10T12:19:05  <JosefMeier> ThomasWaldmann: Our network drives have user access groups. So static serving won't be a good idea I fear.
2009-10-10T12:20:01  <ThomasWaldmann> some years ago, I did a hack similar to fileserver storage backend.
2009-10-10T12:20:42  <ThomasWaldmann> together with smb auth plugin, it mounted stuff per user and then made it accessable via wiki "pseudo pages"
2009-10-10T12:21:26  <JosefMeier> but then user login and password have to be stored somewhere ?
2009-10-10T12:21:45  <JosefMeier> I mean the login and password to the network drive
2009-10-10T12:22:45  <ThomasWaldmann> in that case it was same as wiki login (ldap/AD)
2009-10-10T12:23:05  <JosefMeier> hm. thats not possible in my case
2009-10-10T12:23:35  <JosefMeier> So I have to rely on client side techniques -> browser -> file:// :-(
2009-10-10T12:24:11  <ThomasWaldmann> that doesn't sound like fun :)
2009-10-10T12:25:32  <JosefMeier> It isn't. IE has no "problems" with following file links. Firefox follows with a plugin. So it's not that big issue
2009-10-10T12:25:48  <JosefMeier> but it's not much beauty in that ,-)
2009-10-10T12:35:23  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: why do we need InstallDocs* in the page sets?
2009-10-10T12:35:59  <ThomasWaldmann> one usually installs these page sets after the wiki is running, so why do we need InstallDocs then?
2009-10-10T12:43:32  <dreimark> because we can refer to these pages on the current wiki we are using
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2009-10-10T12:46:27  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: I was quite sure that w enee to replace request.form.get by request.values.get
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2009-10-10T12:46:40  <dreimark> s/w enee /we need/
2009-10-10T12:49:05  <ThomasWaldmann> i am quite sure it is wrong :)
2009-10-10T12:49:39  <ThomasWaldmann> because RenamePage uses a POST request, so the stuff is in .form
2009-10-10T12:50:47  <ThomasWaldmann> and for what do we need those pages "in the current wiki we are using"?
2009-10-10T12:51:42  <dreimark> if one has done the 1 minute installation and I want  to tell him it is better you use wsgi
2009-10-10T12:52:03  <dreimark> or someone elxse can do and he can read it in his local wiki
2009-10-10T12:52:58  <dreimark> s/you/to/
2009-10-10T12:55:06  <dreimark> or someone else who uses the wiki should know how easy he can get a desktop wiki
2009-10-10T12:56:01  <dreimark> it think reading the install procedure on a running wiki is important
2009-10-10T13:00:56  <ThomasWaldmann> you can read it on master19
2009-10-10T13:01:44  <dreimark> as long as master19 exists and one is online. I think we should have not only one place where one can read it online
2009-10-10T13:02:05  <dreimark> I am not sure if a user will find master19 if I don't tell
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2009-10-10T13:05:05  <dreimark> if one wants to use wikisync for example. he has no idea how much effort it is. if he can read it needs only 1 minute to have a moinwiki
2009-10-10T13:05:06  <ThomasWaldmann> that's a different thing
2009-10-10T13:05:20  <ThomasWaldmann> but it is pretty stupid if install docs require a running wiki
2009-10-10T13:06:00  <dreimark> no it should not require it should be somehow a copy/backup
2009-10-10T13:08:05  <dreimark> if it is only in the file then we share this info only with one admin and not with the users of the wiki.
2009-10-10T13:08:28  <dreimark> the wiki users often like to know that too for setting up moin thereselfs
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2009-10-10T13:13:07  <ThomasWaldmann> users of a wiki don't need install docs
2009-10-10T13:13:35  <ThomasWaldmann> and if they do, they get admins on their own and can read install.html or master19 docs
2009-10-10T13:18:27  <dreimark> I think they like to become admins on their own more often if they know the effort before
2009-10-10T13:18:48  <dreimark> but I agree that the name InstallDocs on an installed wiki sounds strange
2009-10-10T13:21:35  <dreimark> we have already HelpOnUpdating also on an installed wiki, which we should assume it was correct updated
2009-10-10T13:23:57  <ThomasWaldmann> the problem is that the wiki they use somewhere at some point in time doesn't need to be same version as we offer as download
2009-10-10T13:24:04  <ThomasWaldmann> so they are reading wrong docs
2009-10-10T13:24:15  <ThomasWaldmann> we already had that often enough
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2009-10-10T13:35:33  <CIA-34> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5199:1992db92a230 1.9/MoinMoin/action/AttachFile.py: fix '304 not modified' response for AttachFile do=get and do=box
2009-10-10T13:35:34  <CIA-34> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5200:a3c6d7b7a5dd 1.9/MoinMoin/ (action/RenamePage.py i18n/strings.py theme/__init__.py): merged main
2009-10-10T13:36:03  <dreimark> hmm, I think we can't avoid people not reading it completly. The others who did read it right don't tell us.
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2009-10-10T13:38:07  <ThomasWaldmann> it is not about reading it completely, it is about reading the correct version of it
2009-10-10T13:41:23  <dreimark> we can add on each title a big sign that the docs are for 1.9. people should know that docs get updates too.
2009-10-10T13:43:17  <ThomasWaldmann> and who updates those version numbers for each release?
2009-10-10T13:44:00  <ThomasWaldmann> you are trying to fix a problem we would not have if we don't put those install docs into wiki installations
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2009-10-10T13:45:07  <ThomasWaldmann> but maybe we can first finish the RenamePage "fix" thing
2009-10-10T13:45:13  <ThomasWaldmann> can you explain it?
2009-10-10T13:45:50  * ThomasWaldmann updates i18n
2009-10-10T13:46:26  <JosefMeier> Today's the day for RC1 ?
2009-10-10T13:48:27  <ThomasWaldmann> yes
2009-10-10T13:49:20  <dreimark> yes
2009-10-10T13:49:23  <dreimark> http://localhost:8080/TestThis?action=RenamePage&subpages_checked=1
2009-10-10T13:49:40  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: does not work with form
2009-10-10T13:49:58  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: RenamePage is not intended to support GET requests as it is an action that modifies data
2009-10-10T13:50:02  <ThomasWaldmann> #, fuzzy
2009-10-10T13:50:02  <ThomasWaldmann> msgstr "installieren"
2009-10-10T13:50:06  <ThomasWaldmann> msgid "InstallDocs"
2009-10-10T13:50:27  <ThomasWaldmann> and this is the consequence of your InstallDocs adding + some new untranslated strings
2009-10-10T13:50:37  <ThomasWaldmann> thus I request you revert all that
2009-10-10T13:50:50  <dreimark> can I add it tp the never translated list ?
2009-10-10T13:51:08  <dreimark> and move HelponUpdating to that too?
2009-10-10T13:52:20  <dreimark> if subpages_checked can't be added as GET param how can it be set then?
2009-10-10T13:52:55  <ThomasWaldmann> if you invoke RenamePage, it generates a form with POST action
2009-10-10T13:53:35  <ThomasWaldmann>     wget -U MoinMoin/Makefile -O build/UPDATE.html "http://master19.moinmo.in/HelpOnUpdating?action=print"
2009-10-10T13:53:52  <ThomasWaldmann> HelpOnUpdating also needs to get removed from the page sets
2009-10-10T13:54:36  * dreimark kills that because of the time before rc1 but i feel that it is wrong
2009-10-10T13:54:48  <ThomasWaldmann> (it is maybe a bit more general than install docs, but still: it only is for admin and it is important to read the right version)
2009-10-10T13:54:52  <dreimark> just because of a few admins who can't read
2009-10-10T13:56:01  <ThomasWaldmann> it is contained in every download as docs/*.html
2009-10-10T13:56:06  <dreimark> one of the big plusses of moin becomes now hidden
2009-10-10T13:56:19  <ThomasWaldmann> and if you like, you can add links to the correct version on the download page
2009-10-10T13:56:26  <dreimark> well one who has already decided to use moin we don't need to tell features
2009-10-10T13:57:36  <ThomasWaldmann> ?
2009-10-10T13:58:22  <dreimark> if installdocs is not on the moinmo.in wiki noone can recognize how easy a setup is
2009-10-10T13:58:34  <dreimark> only the people who have it already knows it
2009-10-10T14:03:45  <JosefMeier> I agree with dreimark
2009-10-10T14:04:15  <JosefMeier> Altough I think the biggest feature of Moin is the WYSIWYG editor ;-)
2009-10-10T14:04:51  <ThomasWaldmann> one of the common issues people have with moin is that is has a lots of pages in the namespace they don't want
2009-10-10T14:05:04  <ThomasWaldmann> and another issue is that the read wrong docs all the time
2009-10-10T14:05:16  <ThomasWaldmann> either on moinmo.in or on some other wiki
2009-10-10T14:05:17  <dreimark> only the people who tell us
2009-10-10T14:12:20  <CIA-34> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 5201:3b9b517aecbe 1.9/MoinMoin/i18n/strings.py: i18n.strings: removed install and update instruction pages. They are kept in docs/.
2009-10-10T14:12:22  <CIA-34> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 5202:c5244b636870 1.9/MoinMoin/action/AttachFile.py: merged main
2009-10-10T14:14:33  <ThomasWaldmann> my 1.8 subprocess fixes seem to be successful
2009-10-10T14:15:04  <ThomasWaldmann> someone who has severe issues before with the external filter invocation told me it works now
2009-10-10T14:20:22  <dreimark> so that subpages_checked was used in the past for a default setting of the checkbox
2009-10-10T14:20:38  <dreimark> that was done by a GET input
2009-10-10T14:34:06  <ThomasWaldmann> use case?
2009-10-10T14:37:58  <dreimark> enable all subpages for renaming on default
2009-10-10T14:42:41  <ThomasWaldmann> so you want to have a link somewhere on a page like [[FooPage|rename this|&action=RenamePage,&subpages_checked=1]] ?
2009-10-10T14:44:44  <ThomasWaldmann> TheSheep: was ThemeMarket problematic since long (due to surge prot) or is that new since we run 1.9 there?
2009-10-10T14:47:37  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: as example yes
2009-10-10T14:48:00  <ThomasWaldmann> in what use case would one use that?
2009-10-10T14:48:06  <dreimark> in a theme
2009-10-10T14:48:19  <dreimark> it can be enabled without changing the code
2009-10-10T14:49:12  <ThomasWaldmann> so you want that some theme default to renaming all subpages while other themes don't?
2009-10-10T14:49:40  <dreimark> well we have had a reason to add this 'subpages_checked':  code
2009-10-10T14:50:01  <ThomasWaldmann> i don't remember :)
2009-10-10T14:50:29  <dreimark> we have had it default on in the past and exchanged it by that line
2009-10-10T14:50:52  <dreimark> I would prefer on as default and not off
2009-10-10T14:51:51  <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: I had problems with it in 1.3.5 too
2009-10-10T14:56:15  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: i read that old diff from 2.5y ago
2009-10-10T14:56:27  <dreimark> me too
2009-10-10T14:56:44  <ThomasWaldmann> it doesn't give a use case either, but one sees that it is intended as url arg
2009-10-10T14:57:31  <ThomasWaldmann> (because the POST form does not contain an entry for subpages_checked)
2009-10-10T14:58:56  <ThomasWaldmann> but your fix should use request.args for that, not request.values, right?
2009-10-10T15:02:36  <dreimark> I guess yes, but I don't understand currently why it is not values. then it could be used for post too?
2009-10-10T15:09:00  <dreimark> ARGS:  ImmutableMultiDict([('action', u'RenamePage'), ('subpages_checked', u'1')])
2009-10-10T15:09:03  <dreimark> VALUES:  CombinedMultiDict([ImmutableMultiDict([('action', u'RenamePage'), ('subpages_checked', u'1')]), ImmutableMultiDict([])])
2009-10-10T15:09:11  <dreimark> args will be enough
2009-10-10T15:09:45  <dreimark> in long term that may become a user preferences var
2009-10-10T15:17:39  <CIA-34> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5203:8b2c738f2a91 1.9/MoinMoin/web/contexts.py: fix typo in Cache-Control header (max-age)
2009-10-10T15:17:40  <CIA-34> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5204:03086aa93c85 1.9/MoinMoin/i18n/strings.py: merge main
2009-10-10T15:19:00  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: .form = POSTed form, .args = URL args (GET and POST), .values = both mixed
2009-10-10T15:19:45  <ThomasWaldmann> and as the <form> does not contain that name, it doesn't make sense to use the mixed one
2009-10-10T15:20:43  <dreimark> ok
2009-10-10T15:30:22  <ThomasWaldmann> TheSheep: waldi: what do you think Expires: should tell for Attachfile do=get (images, drawings, ...)?
2009-10-10T15:31:08  <ThomasWaldmann> currently there is no Expires: header, thus the browser loads just the html for ThemeMarket, but does not check the images
2009-10-10T15:31:50  <ThomasWaldmann> (if it would check the images, moin would respond with 304 if not modified usually)
2009-10-10T15:32:35  <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: expires doesn't make sense, I'd use etag
2009-10-10T15:33:18  <ThomasWaldmann> etag only makes sense IF it asks
2009-10-10T15:33:32  <ThomasWaldmann> but it doesn't, if it is not expired, right?
2009-10-10T15:33:48  * TheSheep is not sure
2009-10-10T15:35:39  * dreimark fixed those calles
2009-10-10T15:42:25  <CIA-34> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 5205:bc5d4e7072ea 1.9/MoinMoin/action/ (CopyPage.py DeletePage.py RenamePage.py): action CopyPage, RenamePage, DeletePage: subpages_checked needs request.args.getfor reading this url param
2009-10-10T15:54:42  <CIA-34> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5206:64854adb52fc 1.9/MoinMoin/action/AttachFile.py: (log message trimmed)
2009-10-10T15:54:42  <CIA-34> add Expires header with now + 10 seconds for AttachFile do=get and do=box
2009-10-10T15:54:42  <CIA-34> User's browser shall usually request the wiki content as it might change fast.
2009-10-10T15:54:42  <CIA-34> It'll either get a 200 OK response with the content, or (if content was not
2009-10-10T15:54:44  <CIA-34> modified) a 304 NOT MODIFIED response.
2009-10-10T15:54:46  <CIA-34> Without the Expires header, browser does not request the content (I guess it
2009-10-10T15:54:48  <CIA-34> uses some builtin heuristics then to determine when to do a request, and
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2009-10-10T17:46:40  <CIA-34> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5207:26b7f7f8bfe7 1.9/MoinMoin/i18n/ (43 files): updated i18n
2009-10-10T18:40:38  <ThomasWaldmann> master19 wiki is still a mess
2009-10-10T19:23:38  <CIA-34> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 5208:e7de614109ab 1.9/MoinMoin/i18n/strings.py: add HelpOnDrawings
2009-10-10T19:44:25  <dreimark> re
2009-10-10T19:44:55  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: you talk about translation mismatch?
2009-10-10T19:45:35  <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: yes and the 900 pages that are in the "has to be checked" page package
2009-10-10T19:46:19  <dreimark> is it a readable lang for me?
2009-10-10T19:48:20  <ThomasWaldmann> i already fixed some german issues
2009-10-10T19:51:02  <ThomasWaldmann> ok Help* and Hilfe* mostly fixed now
2009-10-10T19:55:40  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: I don't see pageset=has_to_be_checked
2009-10-10T20:15:20  <ThomasWaldmann> ?
2009-10-10T20:15:42  <ThomasWaldmann> 00_needs_fixing
2009-10-10T20:28:22  <dreimark> I tried to see it by the action
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2009-10-10T21:08:01  <JosefMeier> Does Python have no SMB support?
2009-10-10T21:08:35  <JosefMeier> I installed pysmb but don't get further to connect to my windows shares :-/
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2009-10-10T21:23:08  <dreimark> JosefMeier: -> python.de
2009-10-10T21:40:17  * JosefMeier using pysmbclient
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2009-10-10T22:08:58  <dreimark> JosefMeier: I was talking about the german python channel
2009-10-10T23:36:32  <JosefMeier> dreimark: Thank you. I know. I'm thinking about how I can send the network drives login information encrypted from a form in the browser to the wiki server. Does Moin have support for that?
2009-10-10T23:37:17  <JosefMeier> I don't want to store the login and password on the wiki server unencrypted. But I have to decrypt it to connect Moin to the windows smb server.