1 2010-05-14T00:01:29 <ThomasWaldmann> chromeframe is maybe not that useful
2 2010-05-14T00:01:53 <ThomasWaldmann> if a user could install it, he could also just install firefox or chrome, right?
3 2010-05-14T00:02:11 <ThomasWaldmann> but corporate users are often not allowed to install stuff
4 2010-05-14T00:05:29 <dreimark> i know. on some of our windows domains we currently establish a second browser (firefox). Other science companies have alredy defined FF as the first browser. hopefully other follow that example
5 2010-05-14T00:06:38 <dreimark> scalibility of icons is quite easy with svg. if we can't make it the default we should not block us
6 2010-05-14T00:07:53 <dreimark> too. I have had already the stupid discussion about german umlauts in pagetitle. And if you show those people that firefox knows to handle these chars they immeadiatly understand why I like FF
7 2010-05-14T00:18:46 <valeuf> dreimark: I do not like so much SVG solution, because it means that every theme will have the same smiley
8 2010-05-14T00:19:08 <dreimark> valeuf: why ?
9 2010-05-14T00:19:09 <valeuf> dreimark: there is no pretty solution to change the apparence of a SVG diagram
10 2010-05-14T00:19:23 <dreimark> valeuf: you know svg-edit?
11 2010-05-14T00:21:07 <ThomasWaldmann> valeuf: there is a easy way to change appearance of png icons?
12 2010-05-14T00:21:11 <valeuf> dreimark: no, but I checked and I do not see how it can help us
13 2010-05-14T00:21:22 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: theme can use different png
14 2010-05-14T00:21:23 <dreimark> svg icons can be styled http://www.w3.org/1999/08/WD-SVG-19990812/styling.html
15 2010-05-14T00:21:38 <dreimark> and thems could also use different svg icons
16 2010-05-14T00:22:06 <valeuf> dreimark: if they use different SVG icons, I do not see the difference with smiley node in the tree ?
17 2010-05-14T00:22:27 <valeuf> dreimark: it is really limited
18 2010-05-14T00:22:32 <ThomasWaldmann> valeuf: theme can also use different svg
19 2010-05-14T00:22:43 <ThomasWaldmann> so i don't quite get the point
20 2010-05-14T00:22:57 <dreimark> valeuf: the theme could be resized without the need of resized png files
21 2010-05-14T00:23:23 <valeuf> dreimark: you made your point, that's a big advantage
22 2010-05-14T00:23:37 * dreimark wants to understand your point
23 2010-05-14T00:23:47 <valeuf> dreimark: but I still think that it would be better to use special smiley node in the tree
24 2010-05-14T00:24:07 <valeuf> so the converter can use whatever we need: svg, png, plain text
25 2010-05-14T00:24:16 <valeuf> brb
26 2010-05-14T00:32:27 <ThomasWaldmann> yes, if the converter brings us flexibility, that would be nice :)
27 2010-05-14T00:32:54 <dreimark> :)
28 2010-05-14T00:37:25 <xorAxAx> wee, google supplier forms again
29 2010-05-14T00:37:36 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: well, there is another advantage with SVG, is that, if the conevrter cannot handle the smiley, we can still get a visible result
30 2010-05-14T00:38:00 <valeuf> but, I feel like it is better to let converter choose how to handle smiley, and not put this directly in the DOM tree
31 2010-05-14T00:40:30 <ThomasWaldmann> valeuf: what does the svg converter do if it "cannot handle the smiley"?
32 2010-05-14T00:41:10 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: heuh, stop me if I am wrong, but there is no need for converter for SVG, since it should be a mimetype
33 2010-05-14T00:41:31 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: recent browser are able to display svg directly
34 2010-05-14T00:41:59 <ThomasWaldmann> yes
35 2010-05-14T00:42:37 <valeuf> so SVG converter will be need in some specific case when we cannot display svg directly
36 2010-05-14T00:42:42 <ThomasWaldmann> (i thought you meant another converter stage)
37 2010-05-14T00:43:37 <ThomasWaldmann> i am not sure that we want to render svg ourselves to bitmap
38 2010-05-14T00:44:14 <ThomasWaldmann> so we either emit svg (if it is wanted), or we emit png, or text
39 2010-05-14T00:44:52 <valeuf> yep, in this case we will ned to "emit" svg as png if required
40 2010-05-14T00:45:16 <ThomasWaldmann> no, we won't create svg then
41 2010-05-14T00:45:34 <ThomasWaldmann> and for the smileys, we can just have 2 sets on disk
42 2010-05-14T00:45:36 <valeuf> you mean for simloy ?
43 2010-05-14T00:45:41 <valeuf> *smiley
44 2010-05-14T00:46:13 <valeuf> ah sorry I did not get you, I thought you meant that we can convert svg document to a bitmap by ourself,
45 2010-05-14T00:46:36 <valeuf> yep, I think it is better to let the converter return the appropriate format
46 2010-05-14T00:47:00 <ThomasWaldmann> theoretically, converting svg to bitmap is possible, but that likely creates dependencies we do not want
47 2010-05-14T00:47:24 <ThomasWaldmann> (i researched that a while ago)
48 2010-05-14T00:47:37 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: yep, it means we replace a missing features of the browser, or the format we want to convert in
49 2010-05-14T00:48:21 <valeuf> yes, it means we need a library to convert a SVG to a bitmap, because it won't be an easy task,
50 2010-05-14T00:48:45 <valeuf> but, still people can add such of features as an extension easily I think
51 2010-05-14T00:51:11 <dreimark> valeuf: it is not easy, because you need a huge amount of libraries
52 2010-05-14T00:51:44 <dreimark> it was to big for our support lib
53 2010-05-14T00:52:06 <valeuf> dreimark: cairo should be enough normally
54 2010-05-14T00:52:20 <dreimark> svg-edit does it by js
55 2010-05-14T00:52:42 <dreimark> one could export a svg graphics from within the browser
56 2010-05-14T00:53:13 <valeuf> dreimark: with only cairo and librsvg : http://guillaume.segu.in/blog/code/43/svg-to-png/
57 2010-05-14T00:54:21 <ThomasWaldmann> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid/python-rsvg
58 2010-05-14T00:54:22 <dreimark> librsvg is not pure python
59 2010-05-14T00:54:48 <valeuf> dreimark: sure, but for such of task, it is quite hard to find pure python library
60 2010-05-14T00:56:03 <ThomasWaldmann> hmm, didn't they even depend on gnome stuff in earlier distributions?
61 2010-05-14T00:56:26 <ThomasWaldmann> gnome-desktop or something?
62 2010-05-14T00:56:28 <dreimark> they did, you told them the dependency
63 2010-05-14T00:56:44 <dreimark> i remember a talk on #moin some time ago
64 2010-05-14T00:57:05 <valeuf> yep, PIL should be also able to handle SVG, but I am not 100% sure, and I do not find good reference
65 2010-05-14T00:57:29 <valeuf> it seems to be rather a hack !
66 2010-05-14T00:58:07 <valeuf> by the way, it is not our problem to convert SVG to bitmap, I am 100% agree on this :)
67 2010-05-14T01:01:16 <ThomasWaldmann> iirc, pil doesn't do svg
68 2010-05-14T04:43:58 <ronny> sup
69 2010-05-14T06:17:28 *** kursor
70 2010-05-14T09:44:41 <valeuf> moin
71 2010-05-14T09:49:19 <valeuf> I checked for the img in moin2.0
72 2010-05-14T09:49:47 <valeuf> actually it is displayed in an object element if there is no extension (like .jpg, or ,png ...)
73 2010-05-14T09:51:07 <valeuf> the method isPicture in wikiutil is not enough powerfull, or we should see to change the metadata with the input converter
74 2010-05-14T10:32:01 <dreimark> moin
75 2010-05-14T10:32:23 <dreimark> headers.dict.keys()
76 2010-05-14T10:32:24 <dreimark> ['transfer-encoding', 'vary', 'server', 'connection', 'x-pad', 'date', 'content-
77 2010-05-14T10:32:27 <dreimark> type']
78 2010-05-14T10:32:35 <dreimark> set on moinmo.in
79 2010-05-14T10:32:47 <valeuf> dreimark: ?
80 2010-05-14T10:32:51 <dreimark> how can i figure from a http request that the content of the page has changed?
81 2010-05-14T10:35:23 <TheSheep> dreimark: you mean from response?
82 2010-05-14T10:35:29 <dreimark> yes
83 2010-05-14T10:35:39 <valeuf> maybe with the cache control ?
84 2010-05-14T10:35:45 <TheSheep> there are several ways
85 2010-05-14T10:35:53 <TheSheep> if you have etags you can just check that
86 2010-05-14T10:36:19 <TheSheep> compare the etag with the etag of previous version
87 2010-05-14T10:36:36 <TheSheep> if they are the same, the page didn't change
88 2010-05-14T10:46:44 <dreimark> TheSheep: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/213904/
89 2010-05-14T10:46:53 *** kursor
90 2010-05-14T10:47:19 <dreimark> we don't have 'Last-Modified' and also not Etag in the header
91 2010-05-14T11:06:24 <TheSheep> what a shame
92 2010-05-14T11:07:33 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: is that intended or a bug ?
93 2010-05-14T12:01:37 <waldi> valeuf: to be exact: this part needs to be replaced. the usage of isPicture can be considered a workaround
94 2010-05-14T12:28:40 <valeuf> waldi: we should be able to do something based on the mimetypes, isn't it ?
95 2010-05-14T12:54:28 <valeuf> waldi: it seems that some elements are missing from the html_out converter
96 2010-05-14T12:56:55 <valeuf> waldi: at least sub, sup, and line-through, I will try to implement it in html_out, to see if I really understand well how it is working
97 2010-05-14T13:26:15 *** TheSheep
98 2010-05-14T13:26:19 *** TheSheep
99 2010-05-14T14:20:29 * ThomasWaldmann reads backlog
100 2010-05-14T14:21:41 <ThomasWaldmann> valeuf: for internal items, it should check metadata, not extension
101 2010-05-14T14:22:21 <dreimark> bbl
102 2010-05-14T14:23:17 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: there should be some headers
103 2010-05-14T14:39:26 <ThomasWaldmann> valeuf: for now you could maybe keep that "isPicture" hack. once my metadata stuff works, there will be a quite fast method to query the mimetype for some item name.
104 2010-05-14T19:22:23 *** ei-grad
105 2010-05-14T19:22:41 <valeuf> ThomasWaldmann: ok
106 2010-05-14T20:15:06 *** kursor
107 2010-05-14T20:27:54 <ThomasWaldmann> re
108 2010-05-14T21:59:55 <dreimark> re
109 2010-05-14T22:08:42 *** kursor
110 2010-05-14T22:32:59 *** vpv
111 2010-05-14T22:46:32 <dreimark> if I have ExpatError how can I anylyse what the reason is. Is there some tool which helps reading it or finding the problem itselfs
112 2010-05-14T22:46:36 *** vpv
113 2010-05-14T22:50:24 *** xorRaxRax
114 2010-05-14T23:29:15 *** vpv
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