1 2011-02-19T00:01:15 <MattMaker> I tried several different approaches in moinmoin1.9.3 for my wiki - I made a macro, I made a macro that also did an include, I made a Formatter, I made a Parser that added an additional markup for what I wanted
2 2011-02-19T00:01:42 <MattMaker> there were multiple ways to do it, and I suppose that's a good thing
3 2011-02-19T00:03:11 <MattMaker> in my use case, it was adding some wikified structure to a multi-level bulleted numbered list -- I wanted to be able to reference them with anchors
4 2011-02-19T00:03:27 <MattMaker> and I wanted them to look a certain way too
5 2011-02-19T00:08:03 <MattMaker> noted: When moin2 says "Invalid username or password." it should probably offer the "If you do not have an account, you can create one now. Forgot your password?" also
6 2011-02-19T00:13:14 <dreimark> for such a case of a message we should have a hint box next to the login (name password)
7 2011-02-19T00:14:56 <ThomasWaldmann> MattMaker: categories by links has been a total pain
8 2011-02-19T00:14:59 <dreimark> if it is neaby of the error message, it diverts that message in something not clearly visible
9 2011-02-19T00:15:41 <ThomasWaldmann> to fix that, we used ----\nCategoryFoo in the end
10 2011-02-19T00:15:58 <MattMaker> dreimark maybe add the same message to that error message then? so there is a place to click to create an acct
11 2011-02-19T00:16:10 <ThomasWaldmann> but in moin2 it'll be just tags
12 2011-02-19T00:20:39 <dreimark> MattMaker: if we want to see it on all kind of problems one has with an account or passwort, we can show it always
13 2011-02-19T00:22:52 <MattMaker> dreimark either way works for me, my use case is this: I am logging in to a wiki, and I know what my account name *would* be if it exists, but I am not sure I have created one on this particular wiki, so I first attempt to log in. immediately after that fails, I want a link to click to create the account.
14 2011-02-19T00:25:13 <dreimark> MattMaker: no
15 2011-02-19T00:25:23 <dreimark> you want a link to recover your passwort
16 2011-02-19T00:25:35 <dreimark> if that fails you want to have an account
17 2011-02-19T00:26:08 <dreimark> otherwise you try to create an account with the same mail adress
18 2011-02-19T00:26:12 <dreimark> and that will fail
19 2011-02-19T00:26:31 <MattMaker> that's what would have happened just now, then
20 2011-02-19T00:27:04 <dreimark> i think we should show some hints, what to do next
21 2011-02-19T00:27:42 <dreimark> the location of the message bar is may be not the best place
22 2011-02-19T00:27:57 <MattMaker> you know, come to think of it, my old wiki has multiple accounts for the same people, where they used slightly different "handles"
23 2011-02-19T00:28:18 <MattMaker> identity is a slippery thing
24 2011-02-19T00:28:35 <dreimark> we can not expose that the account exists just while one is trying names and passwords
25 2011-02-19T00:29:10 <dreimark> s/while/because/
26 2011-02-19T00:30:07 <dreimark> in most of my wikis the user must be added to a Group to get access
27 2011-02-19T00:30:35 <dreimark> it doesn't help to create a new account
28 2011-02-19T00:32:43 <MattMaker> so I will be able to get as far as trying to re-create my account that does exist, and if I give the same email address, it will fail then, and I will realize I need to recover my password... and if I'm a black hat, now I know what email address that request is going to be sent to...
29 2011-02-19T00:35:02 <dreimark> something like this is nice https://launchpad.net/+login
30 2011-02-19T00:37:55 *** Pranav_rcmas
31 2011-02-19T00:41:05 <MattMaker> agreed, some good ideas there
32 2011-02-19T00:49:09 <CIA-65> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 10476:7cb014f353c3 2.0-dev/MoinMoin/ (6 files in 5 dirs): remove Category code (except migration code in fs19), we use tags in moin2
33 2011-02-19T00:52:16 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, templates are next
34 2011-02-19T00:52:38 <ThomasWaldmann> anything against just tagging templates as such?
35 2011-02-19T00:54:03 <dreimark> nothing yet
36 2011-02-19T00:55:25 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: also tagged by language etc.
37 2011-02-19T00:55:28 <dreimark> ?
38 2011-02-19T00:56:52 <MattMaker> I am completely ignorant of templates as yet, but it sounds like a page/subpage sort of thing rather than a "this page is a template yes/no" thing
39 2011-02-19T00:56:58 <ThomasWaldmann> you can use any tags you want
40 2011-02-19T00:57:29 <ThomasWaldmann> but right now this is about replacing "FooTemplate" by "Foo" tag:template
41 2011-02-19T00:58:11 <ThomasWaldmann> MattMaker: templates are existing content that can be loaded into an item when creating it
42 2011-02-19T00:58:35 <ThomasWaldmann> in 1.9 we usually preloaded the templates' content into editor
43 2011-02-19T00:58:54 <dreimark> ok, http://moinmo.in/SeeHere
44 2011-02-19T00:59:03 <dreimark> left hand
45 2011-02-19T00:59:47 <dreimark> btw. from template needs then to ignore to copy that tag
46 2011-02-19T01:02:01 <dreimark> gn
47 2011-02-19T01:09:07 <MattMaker> ah, I see
48 2011-02-19T01:11:12 <MattMaker> to me it wants both: a system metadata tag, and/or they could also be sub-pages of Template/
49 2011-02-19T01:11:52 <MattMaker> I can see how not having "Template" at the end of every name can make a list of them easier to read and choose from...
50 2011-02-19T01:18:45 <ThomasWaldmann> MattMaker: and you have a i18n problem less
51 2011-02-19T01:19:12 <MattMaker> good point
52 2011-02-19T01:19:13 <ThomasWaldmann> esp. if you try to support multiple languages
53 2011-02-19T01:23:50 <ThomasWaldmann> yay, works :)
54 2011-02-19T01:24:34 *** Pranav_rcmas
55 2011-02-19T01:28:33 <CIA-65> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 10477:78e9d49cd09c 2.0-dev/MoinMoin/ (4 files in 4 dirs): remove old itemname-based templates, use a tag 'template' to mark template items
56 2011-02-19T01:33:46 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, dicts and esp. groups are a bit more difficult
57 2011-02-19T01:37:15 *** Pranav_rcmas
58 2011-02-19T01:43:01 * MattMaker has been thinking about some of the proposals to add semantic structure to nodes
59 2011-02-19T01:47:09 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe rather help to fix the basic stuff before we go into semantics :)
60 2011-02-19T01:47:55 <MattMaker> yep, but can't stop thinking nonetheless :)
61 2011-02-19T01:48:14 <ThomasWaldmann> think about groups, acls, tags :)
62 2011-02-19T01:48:38 * ThomasWaldmann would like to get rid of all those name regexes
63 2011-02-19T01:54:28 <MattMaker> well, that's what I mean
64 2011-02-19T01:54:49 <MattMaker> I mean groups, acls, tags relate somewhat to the semantic structure ideas
65 2011-02-19T02:04:32 <ThomasWaldmann> the main thing currently in the way is group vs. user names
66 2011-02-19T02:56:05 *** MattMaker
67 2011-02-19T03:27:17 *** Pranav_rcmas
68 2011-02-19T03:31:01 *** Trip
69 2011-02-19T03:31:24 *** Trip
70 2011-02-19T03:31:45 *** Guest30443
71 2011-02-19T03:43:22 *** kasun
72 2011-02-19T04:06:40 *** grzywacz
73 2011-02-19T04:40:08 *** kasun
74 2011-02-19T04:57:38 *** izibi_
75 2011-02-19T05:00:40 *** izibi
76 2011-02-19T06:22:12 *** MattMaker
77 2011-02-19T06:33:14 *** kasun
78 2011-02-19T06:37:32 *** izibi_
79 2011-02-19T07:19:29 *** Marchael
80 2011-02-19T07:34:55 *** kasun
81 2011-02-19T07:39:09 *** Trip
82 2011-02-19T07:39:23 *** Trip
83 2011-02-19T08:13:44 *** Marchael
84 2011-02-19T08:28:25 *** Pranav_rcmas
85 2011-02-19T08:37:26 *** Marchael
86 2011-02-19T08:52:16 *** kasun
87 2011-02-19T09:53:27 *** Marchael
88 2011-02-19T09:54:00 *** Marchael
89 2011-02-19T10:05:38 <dreimark> moin
90 2011-02-19T10:06:45 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: we can do it the unix way
91 2011-02-19T10:07:06 <dreimark> each user becomes his name as group name and is a member of that group
92 2011-02-19T10:10:31 <dreimark> and those group items need to have acls set with the user name
93 2011-02-19T10:11:37 <dreimark> so we are again at the point that the system need to know what a user is
94 2011-02-19T11:22:56 <MattMaker> reading about (learning about) ACLs is enough to give a headache. This ( http://blog.ianbicking.org/security-models.html ) was interesting, although it seems like some security issues out there have no solution currently
95 2011-02-19T12:02:01 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: i had some similar thoughts, but you brought me to another idea right now
96 2011-02-19T12:02:46 <ThomasWaldmann> "there are no usernames in ACLs, everything is a groupname"
97 2011-02-19T12:04:18 <ThomasWaldmann> and the groupname JoeDoe, if no group definition is found, implicitely means {JoeDoe} (the group with just JoeDoe user as a member
98 2011-02-19T12:06:48 <ThomasWaldmann> also, groups only contain groups
99 2011-02-19T12:07:09 <ThomasWaldmann> and if no group definition is found, ...
100 2011-02-19T12:10:16 <dreimark> cool
101 2011-02-19T12:10:33 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: ^
102 2011-02-19T12:11:39 <ThomasWaldmann> it still leaves the problem with publically editable home pages (with group defintion)
103 2011-02-19T12:12:41 <ThomasWaldmann> e.g. page JoeDoe is editable, so everyone could make a group def there and add himself to JoeDoe group
104 2011-02-19T12:14:16 <dreimark> hmm may be home pages are only editable by users, we have the subitems for others contributions (Discussion)
105 2011-02-19T12:15:12 <dreimark> moment
106 2011-02-19T12:15:27 <dreimark> what is if the group of the user is meta of the user item?
107 2011-02-19T12:15:42 <dreimark> so it can only edited by the user himself
108 2011-02-19T12:16:26 <ThomasWaldmann> i thought about user profile -> meta of user "homepage" item
109 2011-02-19T12:17:59 <ThomasWaldmann> esp. together with the uuid idea, it would be doable
110 2011-02-19T12:20:05 *** greg_f
111 2011-02-19T12:20:17 <dreimark> it must be readonly for others
112 2011-02-19T12:20:29 <dreimark> otherwise a user could easily be hijacked
113 2011-02-19T12:20:49 <dreimark> just change the mail adress and order a recovery token
114 2011-02-19T12:21:04 <dreimark> or even better not readable at all
115 2011-02-19T12:30:15 <ThomasWaldmann> hmm, user/homepage item could be own mimetype with a special renderer
116 2011-02-19T12:38:53 <ThomasWaldmann> in the end, user profile editing could be just editing user(homepage) item
117 2011-02-19T12:39:19 <ThomasWaldmann> with all metadata value types supported by special jinja2/flatland widgets
118 2011-02-19T12:53:23 <dreimark> special item sounds good
119 2011-02-19T12:53:27 <dreimark> htg bbl
120 2011-02-19T14:03:28 *** Marchael
121 2011-02-19T14:13:52 *** MattMaker
122 2011-02-19T14:26:53 *** grzywacz
123 2011-02-19T14:26:53 *** grzywacz
124 2011-02-19T14:52:43 *** kasun
125 2011-02-19T15:41:03 *** m4k3r
126 2011-02-19T16:07:22 *** kasun
127 2011-02-19T16:53:23 *** Pranav_rcmas
128 2011-02-19T17:06:28 *** Pranav_rcmas
129 2011-02-19T17:13:02 * dreimark plays with flask.ext script
130 2011-02-19T17:50:41 *** Pranav_rcmas
131 2011-02-19T18:06:54 *** kasun
132 2011-02-19T18:27:50 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/341353/
133 2011-02-19T18:28:31 <dreimark> do we want in the end just one scripts file? or keep for now the structure
134 2011-02-19T18:41:12 *** greg_f
135 2011-02-19T19:07:07 * dreimark refactors account clis
136 2011-02-19T19:30:56 *** izibi
137 2011-02-19T19:35:00 *** m4k3r
138 2011-02-19T19:35:31 *** m4k3r
139 2011-02-19T19:38:57 *** m4k3r
140 2011-02-19T19:39:23 *** m4k3r
141 2011-02-19T19:46:49 *** m4k3r
142 2011-02-19T19:47:22 *** m4k3r
143 2011-02-19T19:47:55 <CIA-65> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 10478:c19aca80bee1 2.0-dev/ (4 files in 2 dirs): create, disable, resetpw (account cli scipts) refacrored to flaskext.script
144 2011-02-19T19:49:04 * dreimark fixes pep8 failures
145 2011-02-19T19:52:19 *** m4k3r
146 2011-02-19T19:52:52 *** m4k3r
147 2011-02-19T20:01:15 <CIA-65> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 10479:cd662da10500 2.0-dev/MoinMoin/ (4 files in 2 dirs): PEP8 white space fix
148 2011-02-19T20:01:18 *** m4k3r
149 2011-02-19T20:01:49 *** m4k3r
150 2011-02-19T20:05:45 *** m4k3r
151 2011-02-19T20:06:16 *** m4k3r
152 2011-02-19T20:18:53 *** grzywacz
153 2011-02-19T20:19:16 *** m4k3r
154 2011-02-19T20:19:49 *** m4k3r
155 2011-02-19T20:23:14 *** m4k3r
156 2011-02-19T20:23:42 *** m4k3r
157 2011-02-19T20:31:24 *** maker
158 2011-02-19T20:33:06 *** m4k3r
159 2011-02-19T20:34:55 *** maker
160 2011-02-19T22:20:55 <ThomasWaldmann> ree
161 2011-02-19T22:43:09 *** Pranav_rcmas
162 2011-02-19T22:43:33 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: from MoinMoin.app import app?
163 2011-02-19T22:46:49 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: __doc__ in resetpw is wrong
164 2011-02-19T22:47:28 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: Manager import?
165 2011-02-19T23:07:26 *** Trip
166 2011-02-19T23:07:37 *** Trip
167 2011-02-19T23:41:05 *** Pranav_rcmas
168 2011-02-19T23:55:15 *** Pranav_rcmas1
169
