1 2012-03-26T00:00:25 <jaiditya> ok
2 2012-03-26T00:06:14 *** RogerHaase
3 2012-03-26T00:06:37 <jaiditya> ThomasWaldmann: i have created my homepage by name Jaiditya Mathur
4 2012-03-26T00:07:06 <ThomasWaldmann> jaiditya: no, you have not
5 2012-03-26T00:11:19 <jaiditya> ThomasWaldmann: do i need to copy the whole template, or simply putting the name would work ?
6 2012-03-26T00:16:32 <ThomasWaldmann> when creating a page, it'll offer you a list of templates. just use the DeveloperApplicationTemplate
7 2012-03-26T00:17:09 <ThomasWaldmann> and create the right page, not "Firstname Lastname", but use your real name
8 2012-03-26T00:23:37 <ThomasWaldmann> jaiditya: don't edit the template page. use the template to create your own page
9 2012-03-26T00:28:07 <jaiditya> yeah i got that. my homepage is http://moinmo.in/JaidityaMathur
10 2012-03-26T00:29:04 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, wait a sec
11 2012-03-26T00:30:04 <ThomasWaldmann> http://moinmo.in/4ct10n/edit/JaidityaMathur/Soc2012Application?action=edit&template=DeveloperApplicationTemplate use that link
12 2012-03-26T00:30:28 <ThomasWaldmann> and save without change
13 2012-03-26T00:32:34 *** jaiditya
14 2012-03-26T00:33:35 *** jaiditya|2
15 2012-03-26T00:39:21 <ThomasWaldmann> can you please stop creating "FirstnameLastname" pages? see the link i gave you some minutes ago.
16 2012-03-26T00:44:47 <jaiditya|2> ThomasWaldmann: sorry but connection was lost so i didn't got any link. can u please send it again
17 2012-03-26T00:48:47 <ThomasWaldmann> (00:30) < ThomasWal> http://moinmo.in/4ct10n/edit/JaidityaMathur/Soc2012Application?action=edit&template=DeveloperApplicationTemplate use that link
18 2012-03-26T00:54:10 <ThomasWaldmann> (00:30) < ThomasWal> and save without change
19 2012-03-26T00:56:07 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, i put acls to your new page
20 2012-03-26T00:57:29 <jaiditya|2> sorry for the done. n thank you.
21 2012-03-26T00:59:11 <jaiditya|2> \nick jaiditya
22 2012-03-26T00:59:27 *** jaiditya|2
23 2012-03-26T01:03:34 *** MattMaker
24 2012-03-26T01:18:11 *** jaiditya
25 2012-03-26T01:28:44 *** MattMaker
26 2012-03-26T01:55:52 *** betelgeuse_
27 2012-03-26T02:07:41 *** betelgeuse_
28 2012-03-26T02:25:39 *** ayrus12
29 2012-03-26T03:08:05 *** dwcramer
30 2012-03-26T03:47:06 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: Hi, regarding the issue tracker task, do we want an issue tracker *as* a wiki site, or *within* a wiki site?
31 2012-03-26T03:47:45 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: Since an issue tracker would require a very different UI from a wiki, the former would be easier
32 2012-03-26T03:47:51 <xiaq> If we want to do the latter
33 2012-03-26T03:48:11 <xiaq> We need to come up with a way to customize part of a wiki site
34 2012-03-26T03:48:16 <xiaq> Possibly based on namespace
35 2012-03-26T03:48:55 <xiaq> BTW, is moin namespacing the same concept as in MediaWiki?
36 2012-03-26T03:51:48 <xiaq> As far as I can tell ATM, the first approach (issue tracker as a wiki site) has only one downside: the lack of account integration
37 2012-03-26T03:52:54 *** ayrus12
38 2012-03-26T04:31:49 *** yufra_
39 2012-03-26T05:26:28 *** bretonium
40 2012-03-26T08:01:46 *** davinder
41 2012-03-26T08:12:02 <davinder> how to revert back in themes
42 2012-03-26T08:12:04 <davinder> ?
43 2012-03-26T08:12:17 <davinder> i have changed theme from modern to foo
44 2012-03-26T08:12:35 <davinder> but i am unable to revert back
45 2012-03-26T08:12:49 <davinder> there is nothing in wikiconfig.py
46 2012-03-26T08:12:51 <davinder> ?
47 2012-03-26T08:19:10 <dreimark> davinder: in which wikiconfig do you look
48 2012-03-26T08:19:18 <dreimark> it must be in top level dir
49 2012-03-26T08:19:49 <dreimark> if you had a repo clone now, i would say do hg stat or hg diff
50 2012-03-26T08:20:05 <dreimark> moin
51 2012-03-26T08:56:16 <davinder> yes
52 2012-03-26T08:56:22 <davinder> it is inside thomas
53 2012-03-26T08:56:24 <davinder> folder
54 2012-03-26T09:00:03 *** kanha_
55 2012-03-26T09:01:12 *** kanha
56 2012-03-26T09:21:19 <dreimark> davinder: what is "thomas" folder?
57 2012-03-26T09:22:10 <dreimark> you could also look on timstamp of files, there should be one with a different time
58 2012-03-26T09:22:26 <davinder> ok
59 2012-03-26T09:23:23 <dreimark> it is usually moin2/wikiconfig.py where users make changes
60 2012-03-26T09:23:37 <dreimark> devs usually do that in wikiconfig_local.py
61 2012-03-26T09:23:55 <dreimark> because that file is not in version control
62 2012-03-26T09:24:05 <davinder> ok thanks
63 2012-03-26T09:24:29 <dreimark> you have to setup that file yourself, read wikiconfig
64 2012-03-26T09:25:07 <davinder> ok
65 2012-03-26T09:55:01 *** kanha_
66 2012-03-26T09:55:31 *** kanha
67 2012-03-26T10:14:53 *** kanha
68 2012-03-26T10:15:36 *** kanha
69 2012-03-26T10:58:39 *** xorAxAx
70 2012-03-26T11:03:01 *** greg_f
71 2012-03-26T11:17:39 <ThomasWaldmann> moin
72 2012-03-26T11:18:52 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: sure there is some need for a UI, but i don't quite see the big difference between as/within
73 2012-03-26T11:20:16 <ThomasWaldmann> namespace stuff is still in a separate branch. and you have to ask more specifically, I do not use mediawiki
74 2012-03-26T11:20:35 <davinder> ThomasWaldmann : i am doing some changes in themes
75 2012-03-26T11:20:56 <davinder> how can i show what i am doing
76 2012-03-26T11:21:00 <davinder> on moin
77 2012-03-26T11:35:15 <ThomasWaldmann> well, either you serve the wiki on a publically reachable ip or you put screenshots somewhere
78 2012-03-26T11:35:23 <ThomasWaldmann> davinder:
79 2012-03-26T11:35:45 <davinder> ok
80 2012-03-26T11:36:17 <davinder> First i am making the theme fully functional?
81 2012-03-26T11:36:32 *** ayrus12
82 2012-03-26T11:37:14 <davinder> like modern theme
83 2012-03-26T11:37:19 <ThomasWaldmann> davinder: for now or for until after soc?
84 2012-03-26T11:37:55 <davinder> i want to make theme fully functional before applying GSOC
85 2012-03-26T11:37:57 <davinder> :)
86 2012-03-26T11:38:19 <davinder> in gsoc we will do some extra work polishing over this theme
87 2012-03-26T11:38:26 <ThomasWaldmann> well, some views might be broken, but one has to see what the reason is
88 2012-03-26T11:38:39 <davinder> if i got chance to do it
89 2012-03-26T11:38:53 <ThomasWaldmann> if it is not ui code, but somewhere deep in moin, it is not in theming task scope
90 2012-03-26T11:40:08 <davinder> ok then what we can do if it is not UI code
91 2012-03-26T11:40:09 <davinder> ?
92 2012-03-26T11:40:55 <ThomasWaldmann> then someone has to fix it, but that someone is not necessarily you :)
93 2012-03-26T11:41:50 <davinder> But thomas i m themeing
94 2012-03-26T11:41:54 <davinder> expert
95 2012-03-26T11:42:06 <ThomasWaldmann> if you are applying for theming, mostly think about theming stuff, not about fixing moin crashes unrelated to theming
96 2012-03-26T11:42:43 <davinder> bt need at least little hint
97 2012-03-26T11:43:21 <ThomasWaldmann> well, if the foobar hint would look pretty in a similar way to the standard mediawiki theme, it couldn't be completely wrong
98 2012-03-26T11:43:30 <ThomasWaldmann> s/hint/theme/ :)
99 2012-03-26T11:44:07 <ThomasWaldmann> that doesn't mean to just blindly copy everything, of course
100 2012-03-26T11:44:43 <ThomasWaldmann> also, think about other theme authors, who will like to have it a bit different, how can we help them?
101 2012-03-26T11:45:00 <ThomasWaldmann> or users wanting to tweak stuff
102 2012-03-26T11:45:19 <ThomasWaldmann> we are laying the foundations now, they should be good :)
103 2012-03-26T11:46:50 *** kanha_
104 2012-03-26T11:46:58 <ThomasWaldmann> and if you are theming expert, you might know SOME of the stuff better than I do. as you see at current state of moin, I am no expert for colours, css, javascript. more doing backend stuff.
105 2012-03-26T11:47:01 *** davinder_
106 2012-03-26T11:47:03 *** davinder
107 2012-03-26T11:47:22 *** kanha
108 2012-03-26T11:47:34 <davinder_> one thing is clear that lots of functionally needed in foo theme
109 2012-03-26T11:47:54 <davinder_> as along with themeing part
110 2012-03-26T11:48:05 <davinder_> what do you think @thomas
111 2012-03-26T11:49:23 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: moin
112 2012-03-26T11:49:40 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: Namespace in Mediawiki is a kind of special category
113 2012-03-26T11:50:41 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: The unprefixed "content" namespace
114 2012-03-26T11:50:51 <xiaq> User: namespace for homepages
115 2012-03-26T11:51:02 <xiaq> Category: namespace for categories
116 2012-03-26T11:51:17 <xiaq> I guess it's the same thing in moin2
117 2012-03-26T11:51:46 <xiaq> Also IMHO the UI would be a big difference between an issue tracker and a wiki
118 2012-03-26T11:51:54 <xiaq> As a not so proper example
119 2012-03-26T11:52:09 <xiaq> Wikipedia has a practice of using plain wiki pages for discussion
120 2012-03-26T11:52:22 <xiaq> And it turns out really bad...
121 2012-03-26T11:52:50 <xiaq> Mediawiki developers have been working on a more BBS-ish UI but they haven't managed to push the code to Wikipedia yet
122 2012-03-26T11:53:16 <xiaq> I have written some of my thought at http://moinmo.in/CheerXiao/Soc2012Application
123 2012-03-26T11:53:29 <xiaq> But if appropriate, I can explain my ideas in detail
124 2012-03-26T11:53:29 <TheSheep> eeevil
125 2012-03-26T11:53:36 <TheSheep> :)
126 2012-03-26T11:54:52 <xiaq> The two points I'm trying to make are:
127 2012-03-26T11:55:19 <xiaq> 1) A wiki is graph, an issue tracker a list
128 2012-03-26T11:55:48 <xiaq> Though they have essentialy the same database backend, the UI ought to be different
129 2012-03-26T11:56:11 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: maybe look at what our search function could do
130 2012-03-26T11:57:18 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: moin1 or moin2?
131 2012-03-26T11:59:15 <xiaq> Moin1 has decent search support
132 2012-03-26T11:59:49 <ThomasWaldmann> moin2 is better :)
133 2012-03-26T11:59:52 <ThomasWaldmann> brb
134 2012-03-26T12:00:29 <xiaq> I couldn't find it on test.moinmo.in. Did you mean the Index?
135 2012-03-26T12:00:56 <xiaq> And, is there a way to sort the results?
136 2012-03-26T12:01:29 <xiaq> Another big difference is that wiki articles won't have so many properties in metadata
137 2012-03-26T12:01:37 <xiaq> Issues tend to have a lot
138 2012-03-26T12:01:49 <xiaq> And all those properties should be instantly visible
139 2012-03-26T12:03:49 <xiaq> Another point I was trying to make is the "workflow" vs. "solidified knowledge" distinction of issue tracker and wiki
140 2012-03-26T12:04:05 <xiaq> That would require very different UIs
141 2012-03-26T12:04:28 <xiaq> Issue trackers have similar UIs to BBS
142 2012-03-26T12:04:55 <xiaq> IMHO, since it will change the UI a lot, it may not be necessarily a good idea to have wiki and issue tracker together...
143 2012-03-26T12:06:55 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: it is powererd by whoosh, so you can search for metadata, sort results, ...
144 2012-03-26T12:07:54 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: Saw it
145 2012-03-26T12:07:56 <ThomasWaldmann> for the first implementation i would keep it simple, so no threaded comments
146 2012-03-26T12:08:37 <ThomasWaldmann> but of course you need to render the issue in an appropriate way, have a look at converters maybe
147 2012-03-26T12:09:26 * ThomasWaldmann runs all stuff on battery currently, the electricians disconnected us from the power to install solar panel power stuff
148 2012-03-26T12:09:31 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: I guess the search UI is not yet complete?
149 2012-03-26T12:09:52 <ThomasWaldmann> yeah, you can savely assume that most ui is not complete :|
150 2012-03-26T12:09:59 <ThomasWaldmann> f*
151 2012-03-26T12:10:24 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: What's wrong? ...
152 2012-03-26T12:10:31 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: The battery...?
153 2012-03-26T12:10:59 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: I disagree about threaded comments
154 2012-03-26T12:11:07 <ThomasWaldmann> laptop, umts phone with tethering
155 2012-03-26T12:11:17 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: Wikipedia uses plains wiki pages for comment things...
156 2012-03-26T12:11:24 <xiaq> And the UX is really bad
157 2012-03-26T12:11:40 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: We can provide a UI to fake threaded comments
158 2012-03-26T12:11:49 <ThomasWaldmann> i had also bad UX with issue thread threads, so...
159 2012-03-26T12:11:51 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: Not necessarily modify the database part
160 2012-03-26T12:11:59 <xiaq> :D
161 2012-03-26T12:12:02 <ThomasWaldmann> arg, issue tracker* threads
162 2012-03-26T12:13:03 <ThomasWaldmann> e.g. n bitbucket, we often get less-than-great issues posted. and i can't clean them up, even if they are misleading or incorrect and the real issue is a bit different...
163 2012-03-26T12:13:24 <xiaq> Hmmm...
164 2012-03-26T12:13:55 <xiaq> I think the can be solved even with threading
165 2012-03-26T12:13:59 <ThomasWaldmann> and there is no database, you'll have to live with the wiki storage system
166 2012-03-26T12:14:28 <xiaq> Yeah I were thinking about the wiki storage - I said database in a broader sense
167 2012-03-26T12:15:21 <xiaq> We can have a "description" property for an issue, and let that show in the beginning of the issue, instead of the first post
168 2012-03-26T12:15:36 <xiaq> The history can also be there for reference purpose
169 2012-03-26T12:15:53 <ThomasWaldmann> also, notice i said "in first implementation". it is also about doing one step after the other.
170 2012-03-26T12:15:55 <xiaq> I don't think "editable history" would be beneficial for an issue tracker...
171 2012-03-26T12:17:11 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: understood
172 2012-03-26T12:17:52 <ThomasWaldmann> well, sometimes even the title of the issue is wrong (on bb). we currently have to live with that, but sometimes i am tempted to just close such stuff because of not being the real point.
173 2012-03-26T12:18:11 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: issue trackers like Roundup have all properties editable
174 2012-03-26T12:18:15 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: Including the title
175 2012-03-26T12:18:50 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: I agree you on the point :) I've seen that too
176 2012-03-26T12:20:05 <ThomasWaldmann> of course one can misuse editable history, but if we do it wiki-like we have soft security
177 2012-03-26T12:20:26 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: I just thought of Stackoverflow
178 2012-03-26T12:20:31 <xiaq> They have editable history
179 2012-03-26T12:20:41 <ThomasWaldmann> (and if it is wiki like, it is not about editing history, but rather refactoring content)
180 2012-03-26T12:20:50 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: Oh... actually most BBS's today have that...
181 2012-03-26T12:23:21 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, i must leave now. maybe put stuff in your application, so we can discuss it later.
182 2012-03-26T12:23:39 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: alright
183 2012-03-26T12:24:08 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: Auf Wiedersehen :)
184 2012-03-26T12:49:58 *** davinder_
185 2012-03-26T13:38:28 <ThomasWaldmann> re
186 2012-03-26T13:57:51 * ThomasWaldmann just reactivated surge protection on moinmo.in (seems I have switched it off due to some reason quite a while ago)
187 2012-03-26T14:24:48 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: Hey, it's interesting that http://moinmo.in/EasyToDo has lots of tasks marked as "difficult" :-p
188 2012-03-26T14:25:55 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: Also what does "Count: -1" in http://moinmo.in/EasyToDo/Moin2%20as%20Issue%20Tracker mean???
189 2012-03-26T14:26:19 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: everything is relative :)
190 2012-03-26T14:27:08 <ThomasWaldmann> we put some tasks into the "google code in" system, -1 means "do not upload this"
191 2012-03-26T14:28:20 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: Got that. Anyway it's a bit messy...
192 2012-03-26T14:29:02 <xiaq> I meant a bit confusing
193 2012-03-26T14:29:41 <ThomasWaldmann> yeah, it is
194 2012-03-26T14:30:25 <ThomasWaldmann> i would have used bitbucket, but their api doesn't support getting stuff from the comments :|
195 2012-03-26T14:30:51 <ThomasWaldmann> also, we already had the code for preparing stuff on the wiki and uploading it from there to melange
196 2012-03-26T14:32:32 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: Sounds cool. Was it another GSoC project? :)
197 2012-03-26T14:46:44 *** dwcramer
198 2012-03-26T14:56:16 *** dave_largo
199 2012-03-26T15:13:46 *** brunomartin
200 2012-03-26T15:29:25 *** diofeher
201 2012-03-26T15:34:18 <dreimark> xiaq: where do you readed that?
202 2012-03-26T15:34:41 <xiaq> dreimark: I was just joking :)
203 2012-03-26T15:38:21 *** dwcramer
204 2012-03-26T15:46:54 *** betelgeuse_
205 2012-03-26T16:04:40 *** RogerHaase
206 2012-03-26T16:13:57 *** jaiditya
207 2012-03-26T16:14:24 *** DasIch_
208 2012-03-26T16:16:40 *** DasIch
209 2012-03-26T16:16:40 *** DasIch_
210 2012-03-26T16:39:42 *** betelgeuse_
211 2012-03-26T16:49:52 <jaiditya> ThomasWaldmann: themes of moinmoin are usually sober. should i work towards making foobar a little jazzy ?
212 2012-03-26T17:11:26 *** jaiditya
213 2012-03-26T17:21:56 *** xiaq
214 2012-03-26T17:26:53 *** xiaq
215 2012-03-26T17:36:53 *** xorAxAx
216 2012-03-26T17:36:53 *** xorAxAx
217 2012-03-26T17:56:20 *** xiaq
218 2012-03-26T18:13:42 *** diofeher
219 2012-03-26T18:13:45 *** diofeher
220 2012-03-26T19:00:41 *** brunomartin
221 2012-03-26T19:21:56 *** diofeher
222 2012-03-26T19:37:14 *** greg_f
223 2012-03-26T19:38:07 *** dwcramer
224 2012-03-26T20:08:55 <dreimark> bbl
225 2012-03-26T20:10:10 *** dwcramer
226 2012-03-26T20:20:53 *** dwcramer
227 2012-03-26T20:31:00 <ThomasWaldmann> re
228 2012-03-26T21:00:07 *** dwcramer
229 2012-03-26T21:02:27 *** dcramer_
230 2012-03-26T21:03:47 *** zenhase
231 2012-03-26T21:04:04 *** zenhase
232 2012-03-26T21:05:56 *** dwcramer
233 2012-03-26T21:10:18 *** brunomartin
234 2012-03-26T21:31:58 *** diofeher
235 2012-03-26T21:40:32 *** diofeher
236 2012-03-26T21:51:59 *** diofeher
237 2012-03-26T22:24:14 <dreimark> re
238 2012-03-26T22:25:53 *** punycode
239 2012-03-26T22:28:06 *** ayrus12
240 2012-03-26T22:31:37 *** ayrus12
241 2012-03-26T22:40:51 *** diofeher
242 2012-03-26T23:00:20 *** dave_largo
243 2012-03-26T23:21:57 *** MattMaker
244 2012-03-26T23:24:15 <brunomartin> moin
245 2012-03-26T23:38:32 *** jaiditya
246
