1 2012-03-28T00:00:48 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: we have to discuss extended interwiki map with namespaces.... I think we have to change the syntax of intermap.txt.... could exist namespaces with spaces... like 'Usuário Discussão' in pt.wikipedia.... there is some issues with join_wiki too...
2 2012-03-28T00:03:23 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe for now mostly care about the data structure, not about the map file format
3 2012-03-28T00:03:28 <ThomasWaldmann> brunomartin:
4 2012-03-28T00:04:40 <ThomasWaldmann> brunomartin: btw, down from 4 to 3 test fails due to the 8080 port stuff
5 2012-03-28T00:14:36 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: I agree... I suggest a dictionary, with interwikiname with key (as it is now), but with a dictionary as value. Example: {MoinMaster: {u'url': u'http://master.moinmo.in/', u'namespaces': [u'', u'userprofiles']}}
6 2012-03-28T00:15:56 *** bretonium
7 2012-03-28T00:18:19 <ThomasWaldmann> how about just the full namespaces as key?
8 2012-03-28T00:18:49 <ThomasWaldmann> i mean interwikiname:ns1:ns2 as key
9 2012-03-28T00:19:07 <ThomasWaldmann> is a bit more elaborate, but might do it for now
10 2012-03-28T00:19:35 <ThomasWaldmann> brunomartin:
11 2012-03-28T00:22:12 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: yeah... should work...
12 2012-03-28T00:23:27 *** dwcramer
13 2012-03-28T00:24:00 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: maybe we should have separate url with placeholder... in wikipedia, if the url is http://br.wikipedia.org/wiki/$NAMESPACE:$PAGE, and the namespace is '', then the generated url will be http://br.wikipedia.org/wiki/:pagename, and should be http://br.wikipedia.org/wiki/pagename...
14 2012-03-28T00:24:13 <ThomasWaldmann> brunomartin: did you try creating an item in userprofiles namespace?
15 2012-03-28T00:24:23 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: but I think we can discuss this later...
16 2012-03-28T00:24:42 <ThomasWaldmann> [[Self:userprofiles:foo]] that should do that, right?
17 2012-03-28T00:25:01 <ThomasWaldmann> but somehow, you can't create that.
18 2012-03-28T00:25:56 <bretonium> ThomasWaldmann: that's why it will be made pluggable. So that someone else (maybe me) could add a new interface by writing a class with a number of methods
19 2012-03-28T00:26:21 <bretonium> ThomasWaldmann: (that's about merge ui)
20 2012-03-28T00:26:45 <ThomasWaldmann> that's not the point
21 2012-03-28T00:27:45 <ThomasWaldmann> the point is that your merging ui must be able to merge any moin2 item revisions, not just cope with pages as moin1 did
22 2012-03-28T00:28:25 <ThomasWaldmann> (maybe read about difference moin1 page and moin2 item)
23 2012-03-28T00:28:26 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: yep.. this is not done yet... we have to change the items and indexing module to load the correct namespace... now, if you put userprofiles:username, moin finds the item username
24 2012-03-28T00:28:44 <ThomasWaldmann> brunomartin: ah, ok
25 2012-03-28T00:29:38 <ThomasWaldmann> hmm, i have to look also into user.py, whether we already use userprofiles: there
26 2012-03-28T00:30:49 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: admin can avoid user creation with [[Self:userprofiles:foo]] configuring the acl for userprofiles backend in wikiconfig...
27 2012-03-28T00:30:52 <brunomartin> ;-)
28 2012-03-28T00:31:45 <bretonium> hmm, mimetypes. OK, got it.
29 2012-03-28T00:31:46 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: omitting create right... as user.py uses unprotected_storage... right?
30 2012-03-28T00:35:25 <ThomasWaldmann> brunomartin: yeah sure, we'll have good default acls for that later
31 2012-03-28T00:35:44 * ThomasWaldmann currently hacks user.py
32 2012-03-28T00:37:49 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: so, if we use interwikiname:ns1:ns2 and discuss the placeholder issue in future, then the data structure will be the same? Then, no change is needed related with interwiki+namespace behaviour for now?
33 2012-03-28T00:43:11 <ThomasWaldmann> placeholder issue?
34 2012-03-28T00:43:27 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: hum.... now I see...
35 2012-03-28T00:43:42 * ThomasWaldmann didn't get the question
36 2012-03-28T00:44:58 <bretonium> The item '<p>The requested URL was not found on the server.</p><p>If you entered the URL manually please check your spelling and try again.</p>' does not exist.
37 2012-03-28T00:45:04 <bretonium> oh
38 2012-03-28T00:45:36 <brunomartin> if we have interwikiname:ns1:ns2 as keys, then we have an interwikimap entry for each namespace of external wiki, is that it? like, for Moin, we will have MoinMaster http://master.moinmo.in/ and MoinMaster:userprofiles http://master.moinmo.in/userprofiles:
39 2012-03-28T00:46:33 <brunomartin> I think this solves the problem definitely, not just for now....
40 2012-03-28T00:46:37 <brunomartin> ;-)
41 2012-03-28T00:46:42 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann
42 2012-03-28T00:46:50 <bretonium> ThomasWaldmann: what are transclusions?
43 2012-03-28T00:47:45 <brunomartin> bretonium: http://moinmo.in/HelpOnLinking
44 2012-03-28T00:48:06 <brunomartin> bretonium: Braces ({{ }}) are used to embed (transclude/include/show) some target (often an image, but can be text)
45 2012-03-28T00:49:14 <bretonium> bretonium: and what's the difference between transclusion and embedding?
46 2012-03-28T00:57:54 *** RogerHaase
47 2012-03-28T00:58:41 <bretonium> oh, brunomartin:
48 2012-03-28T00:58:50 <bretonium> too many br- nicks
49 2012-03-28T00:59:15 <ThomasWaldmann> bretonium: well, only the entries you really need
50 2012-03-28T00:59:40 <ThomasWaldmann> if you just want to link to viewable items, you won't need the userprofiles: iw map entry
51 2012-03-28T01:00:12 <brunomartin> yep... was just an example....
52 2012-03-28T01:00:34 <ThomasWaldmann> bretonium: it's about the same. transclude maybe means a bit "can be remote"
53 2012-03-28T01:01:13 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: but that's the idea, have an interwikimap entry for every namespace, right?
54 2012-03-28T01:01:57 <ThomasWaldmann> KeyError: "No field named 'namespace'"
55 2012-03-28T01:02:17 <ThomasWaldmann> looks like that's really missing :)
56 2012-03-28T01:02:27 <ThomasWaldmann> brunomartin: do you work on that or shall i do?
57 2012-03-28T01:02:39 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: so we can keep the intermap as is...
58 2012-03-28T01:02:44 <brunomartin> I can do it...
59 2012-03-28T01:02:46 <ThomasWaldmann> brunomartin: yes
60 2012-03-28T01:02:54 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, bedtime for me anyway
61 2012-03-28T01:03:05 <brunomartin> I have done this here... in our project.... ;-)
62 2012-03-28T01:03:22 <brunomartin> so, I will put the namespace in index, right?
63 2012-03-28T01:03:37 <brunomartin> in latest_revs...
64 2012-03-28T01:03:59 <brunomartin> in both.... latest_revs and all_revs, right?
65 2012-03-28T01:09:03 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: but, I will ignore the issue 139, that sugest to index an nsid... I will index the namespace name instead, ok?
66 2012-03-28T01:18:06 *** jaiditya
67 2012-03-28T02:04:48 *** dwcramer
68 2012-03-28T02:20:23 *** ayrus12
69 2012-03-28T02:40:03 *** diofeher
70 2012-03-28T03:11:28 *** dwcramer
71 2012-03-28T03:12:31 <bretonium> http://127.0.0.1:8080/targz - "file could not be opened successfully" after I tried to modify it. Should I fill a bugreport?
72 2012-03-28T03:12:42 <bretonium> moin2
73 2012-03-28T03:24:41 *** dwcramer
74 2012-03-28T03:44:27 *** dwcramer
75 2012-03-28T03:45:51 *** Trip_
76 2012-03-28T03:49:25 *** MattMaker
77 2012-03-28T03:50:23 *** Trip_
78 2012-03-28T04:49:39 *** sudo_dirk
79 2012-03-28T05:04:08 *** sudo_dirk
80 2012-03-28T05:22:06 *** _mayank
81 2012-03-28T05:22:40 <bretonium> looks like it's not implemented yet
82 2012-03-28T06:25:31 *** diofeher
83 2012-03-28T06:36:25 *** bretonium
84 2012-03-28T07:37:16 *** xjjk
85 2012-03-28T07:41:26 *** xjjk
86 2012-03-28T08:11:56 <sudo_dirk> moin
87 2012-03-28T08:12:40 <sudo_dirk> dreimark: i updated http://codereview.appspot.com/5912043/ (pjpeg)
88 2012-03-28T08:12:45 <sudo_dirk> bbl
89 2012-03-28T08:13:15 *** sudo_dirk
90 2012-03-28T08:16:59 *** sudo_dirk
91 2012-03-28T08:22:54 <dreimark> brunomartin: ThomasWaldmann we should indicate on homeitems and other related subitems that this user is disabled. currently in m1 we have that only in the profile.
92 2012-03-28T08:40:52 *** ayrus12
93 2012-03-28T08:57:01 *** kanha
94 2012-03-28T08:59:07 *** kanha_
95 2012-03-28T09:20:07 *** eSyr
96 2012-03-28T09:24:02 *** DasIch
97 2012-03-28T09:26:05 *** eSyr
98 2012-03-28T10:12:20 *** DasIch
99 2012-03-28T10:28:15 *** bretonium
100 2012-03-28T10:28:47 <bretonium> updated application, still some todos and xxx-s
101 2012-03-28T10:37:17 <bretonium> http://www.moinmo.in/BorisBobrov/GSoC2012Application
102 2012-03-28T10:42:20 *** bretonium
103 2012-03-28T10:45:12 *** bretonium
104 2012-03-28T11:03:35 *** greg_f
105 2012-03-28T11:17:16 *** kanha_
106 2012-03-28T11:17:48 *** kanha
107 2012-03-28T12:47:02 *** in3xes
108 2012-03-28T13:00:30 <ThomasWaldmann> moin
109 2012-03-28T13:01:21 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: why?
110 2012-03-28T13:33:15 *** in3xes
111 2012-03-28T13:41:15 <dreimark> because they are personal belongings at that time somehow and a not admin user can't see that the owner of the homepage is not able to answer to a message or a comment
112 2012-03-28T13:45:31 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: ^
113 2012-03-28T13:45:49 *** in3xes
114 2012-03-28T14:09:55 *** _mayank
115 2012-03-28T14:15:05 *** kanha
116 2012-03-28T14:15:08 *** in3xes_
117 2012-03-28T14:16:07 *** kanha_
118 2012-03-28T14:19:02 *** in3xes
119 2012-03-28T14:21:06 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: if the page is not acl protected he can answer as anon user
120 2012-03-28T14:21:39 <ThomasWaldmann> and anyway, you never know whether someone will notice or answer stuff you put on the homepage
121 2012-03-28T14:34:09 *** in3xes_
122 2012-03-28T14:37:03 <ThomasWaldmann> brunomartin: btw, can you check whether the http://moinmo.in/GoogleSoc2012/InitialProjectIdeas somehow overlap with work you have done at hacklab that is pending publication / backcontribution?
123 2012-03-28T14:37:19 <bretonium> does somebody here have any useless dumps of moin1-wikis where I could test network syncing?
124 2012-03-28T14:38:17 <ThomasWaldmann> i only have production wikis, but they usually have at least some private data in them, so "no"
125 2012-03-28T14:38:55 <ThomasWaldmann> but you can just make 2 pages with 2 attachments, that should be enough to test sync
126 2012-03-28T14:39:28 <ThomasWaldmann> also, keep in mind that moin1 sync is not quite what we expect from moin2 sync
127 2012-03-28T14:40:20 <ThomasWaldmann> so thinking about how it should be is maybe better than looking at how it was back then
128 2012-03-28T14:40:39 <bretonium> yep, that's why I want to look at it.
129 2012-03-28T14:41:15 <bretonium> I just want to look at what options are now in use and where it fails now
130 2012-03-28T14:41:50 <ThomasWaldmann> moin 1 sync fails at:
131 2012-03-28T14:42:17 <ThomasWaldmann> history (back then we decided we do not want that, for simplicity, but I think we now want it)
132 2012-03-28T14:42:35 <ThomasWaldmann> attachments (doesn't sync them IIRC)
133 2012-03-28T14:42:53 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe also misc other stuff and bugs
134 2012-03-28T14:43:36 <ThomasWaldmann> back then, it was all a bit more complicated with the old api, with separate pages and attachments, but you don't have that any more.
135 2012-03-28T14:43:59 <ThomasWaldmann> so I suggest you just look what you have in moin2 and deeply think about that
136 2012-03-28T14:44:36 <ThomasWaldmann> need to go, bbl
137 2012-03-28T14:44:59 <bretonium> UnicodeDecodeError: 'utf8' codec can't decode byte 0xff in position 0: invalid start byte
138 2012-03-28T14:45:13 <bretonium> :) attachments
139 2012-03-28T14:47:10 *** in3xes_
140 2012-03-28T14:51:56 *** in3xes__
141 2012-03-28T14:52:24 *** _mayank
142 2012-03-28T14:53:34 <bretonium> hm, and how do I include attachment to moin2 now?
143 2012-03-28T14:55:28 *** in3xes_
144 2012-03-28T14:58:15 <bretonium> by only creating items it seems, ok.
145 2012-03-28T15:30:15 *** in3xes__
146 2012-03-28T15:39:34 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: moin
147 2012-03-28T15:46:28 <dreimark> bretonium: http://www.araxis.com/merge/topic_threeway_file_comparisons.html don't we need 3-way merges?
148 2012-03-28T15:46:38 <dreimark> like there described
149 2012-03-28T15:59:15 *** dave_largo
150 2012-03-28T16:09:28 <ThomasWaldmann> bretonium: yeah, keep that error in mind to not repeat it :)
151 2012-03-28T16:11:47 <dreimark> bretonium: ignore 3-way for now
152 2012-03-28T16:14:30 *** DasIch_
153 2012-03-28T16:16:39 *** DasIch
154 2012-03-28T16:16:39 *** DasIch_
155 2012-03-28T16:26:16 *** Nikhil_M
156 2012-03-28T16:51:41 <ThomasWaldmann> bretonium: your references to yaml, json, xml and the motivation are a bit unclear. also you have to consider the most general case for items, which is NOT markup.
157 2012-03-28T17:16:15 <bretonium> ThomasWaldmann: that's why it's todo and xxx
158 2012-03-28T17:17:09 <bretonium> dreimark: I can't imagine how it will look even on my 1366x768
159 2012-03-28T17:29:43 <ThomasWaldmann> bretonium: wide, but not high :D
160 2012-03-28T17:30:42 * ThomasWaldmann dislikes big / wide displays with relatively low resolution
161 2012-03-28T17:31:21 <xiaq> Moin
162 2012-03-28T17:32:17 <xiaq> I think I can prototype the issue tracker task by simply implementing a macro or two...
163 2012-03-28T17:33:31 <xiaq> One is basically an <<Include()>> to aggregate the messages in an issue
164 2012-03-28T17:34:07 <xiaq> Another wraps around Whoosh to provide a nice index
165 2012-03-28T17:34:41 <xiaq> I guess that will make it...
166 2012-03-28T17:34:44 <ThomasWaldmann> i think the basic idea is right, but the non-prototype implementation would rather not use macros
167 2012-03-28T17:35:31 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe think a bit more specifically about how to map issue to moin storage
168 2012-03-28T17:35:32 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: Should the wiki "chrome" be modified? I thought of that, in the beginning
169 2012-03-28T17:36:08 <ThomasWaldmann> and how you can make use of search/lookup mechanisms we already have
170 2012-03-28T17:36:36 <xiaq> I wonder does moin2 currently support customization metadata schema? If so the data structure mapping would be easy
171 2012-03-28T17:36:48 <xiaq> Just define a set of metadata
172 2012-03-28T17:37:06 <ThomasWaldmann> there is some standard metadata, but metadata is not limited to that
173 2012-03-28T17:37:34 <ThomasWaldmann> so yes, you could have just some metadata entries for a revision
174 2012-03-28T17:39:20 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: Hmm... I also think that per-site customization of issue property schema should be allowed
175 2012-03-28T17:39:39 <xiaq> Early versions of Bugzilla have all the properties fixed... which I found really bad
176 2012-03-28T17:40:21 <ThomasWaldmann> well, that needs more planning
177 2012-03-28T17:40:24 *** Nikhil_M
178 2012-03-28T17:41:16 <xiaq> I also saw that moin1 used moin itself for bug tracking
179 2012-03-28T17:41:21 <xiaq> How did it turn out?
180 2012-03-28T17:41:33 <ThomasWaldmann> well, not too great
181 2012-03-28T17:41:48 <xiaq> What's the problems?
182 2012-03-28T17:41:52 <ThomasWaldmann> on the one hand, it was very flexible, you could put any stuff in there, but
183 2012-03-28T17:42:11 <xiaq> I guess it's a lack of *pattern*
184 2012-03-28T17:42:33 <ThomasWaldmann> otoh, the hand-made query stuff, the manual editing of open/close etc. states were not that great
185 2012-03-28T17:42:59 <xiaq> Yes, exactly the point I was making in the proposal...
186 2012-03-28T17:43:34 <xiaq> Issue trackers emphasize on the workflow... so there ought to be a convenient pattern of doing things
187 2012-03-28T17:44:00 <xiaq> Some UI helpers, and some necessary restrictions
188 2012-03-28T17:44:22 <ThomasWaldmann> i think it was mostly a ui problem and the limited metadata and search capabilities of moin1
189 2012-03-28T17:44:30 <xiaq> Yeah
190 2012-03-28T17:45:18 <xiaq> Given the current status of moin2 I suppose the UI is the major problem
191 2012-03-28T17:45:32 <xiaq> So I was always thinking of the UI from the beginning...
192 2012-03-28T17:45:58 <ThomasWaldmann> well, UI for that is within your task's scope, so of course there is nothing for that yet :)
193 2012-03-28T17:46:30 <ThomasWaldmann> but before making an UI, maybe think about a model that can make good use of what we already have
194 2012-03-28T17:47:06 <ThomasWaldmann> (that we have quite some stuff of what we need is the only reason why that idea came up)
195 2012-03-28T17:47:17 <xiaq> Yes I will study current metadata and searching capacities moin2 has to offer
196 2012-03-28T17:47:38 <ThomasWaldmann> there is no policy in moinmoin that we want moin to be everything (see tikiwiki), au contraire, it should primarily be a wiki
197 2012-03-28T17:48:08 <ThomasWaldmann> but, if we have most of the stuff for "somethingelse", we can consider it
198 2012-03-28T17:48:19 <xiaq> Agreed
199 2012-03-28T17:49:40 <xiaq> I'm going to Zzz (midnight here in +8 tz), gute Nacht :)
200 2012-03-28T17:49:41 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, your task might have some overlap with the widgets task
201 2012-03-28T17:49:53 <ThomasWaldmann> good night :)
202 2012-03-28T17:50:15 <xiaq> Hm... some more words then... is anyone taking the widgets task?
203 2012-03-28T17:50:41 <ThomasWaldmann> i don't know, I don't have more info than you see on the ideas page
204 2012-03-28T17:51:27 <xiaq> okay
205 2012-03-28T17:51:52 <xiaq> Zzz for real this time :)
206 2012-03-28T17:51:57 <ThomasWaldmann> |-)
207 2012-03-28T18:17:13 <bretonium> ThomasWaldmann: frankly, "rpc" part in that idea confuses me. How should it look like? I see it as fetching data by url from another wiki, in some format (json, yaml, xml or whatever).
208 2012-03-28T18:18:06 <bretonium> ThomasWaldmann: which still involves interaction with webserver, and not with python application itself.
209 2012-03-28T18:39:52 <MaikuMori> ThomasWaldmann: Could I request ACL for my GSoC application draft?
210 2012-03-28T18:40:33 <MaikuMori> http://moinmo.in/MiksKalnins/Soc2012Application
211 2012-03-28T18:41:18 <MaikuMori> Also could probably use a bit feedback to see if I'm going in right direction
212 2012-03-28T18:41:24 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: will we save namespace in storage, or just in index?
213 2012-03-28T18:42:22 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: I'm doing this now, editing indexing to index namespace, and so on...
214 2012-03-28T18:45:35 <ThomasWaldmann> bretonium: for sync you need to know what to sync, and then you need to transfer it
215 2012-03-28T18:46:27 <ThomasWaldmann> so yes, rpc is maybe a too specific/limiting term, it is just about transfering data (in moin 1.9 we did it by xmlrpc, but there are other options now also)
216 2012-03-28T18:46:36 <ThomasWaldmann> hi MaikuMori
217 2012-03-28T18:46:41 <MaikuMori> Hey
218 2012-03-28T18:46:58 <ThomasWaldmann> MaikuMori: do you want ACLs on that page?
219 2012-03-28T18:47:28 <MaikuMori> Yes please.
220 2012-03-28T18:47:53 <MaikuMori> Unless it would be better to keep it open for others to read as well.
221 2012-03-28T18:48:23 <ThomasWaldmann> MaikuMori: maybe create the parent page also and check if you still can access the application page now
222 2012-03-28T18:48:39 <ThomasWaldmann> all mentors can still read it (and you)
223 2012-03-28T18:49:29 <ThomasWaldmann> for now we just want to make sure students have OWN ideas (and not copy&pasted some from other students)
224 2012-03-28T18:49:57 <MaikuMori> Alright sounds good.
225 2012-03-28T18:50:33 <ThomasWaldmann> can you still access your application page?
226 2012-03-28T18:50:45 <ThomasWaldmann> (i was just using the toplevel pagename as username)
227 2012-03-28T18:51:09 <MaikuMori> I can still see it
228 2012-03-28T18:54:47 <ThomasWaldmann> MaikuMori: i am reading your application
229 2012-03-28T18:55:23 <ThomasWaldmann> you are suggesting lesscss and sass (which is fine), but we already use stylus (see foobar theme)
230 2012-03-28T18:56:16 <ThomasWaldmann> but i guess it doesn't make a big difference, the goals are quite similar :)
231 2012-03-28T18:56:25 <MaikuMori> I've used that one as well, in fact, that's the last one I've used.
232 2012-03-28T18:56:37 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, your wiki page has some markup issues, esp. the list items
233 2012-03-28T18:56:55 <MaikuMori> I'll look into that.
234 2012-03-28T18:56:59 <ThomasWaldmann> it's blank star blank for moin
235 2012-03-28T18:58:13 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe tell how many exams you have / how much time you need to prepare (roughly)
236 2012-03-28T18:59:41 <ThomasWaldmann> MaikuMori: statistics/rewards stuff: i don't see that for this years SoC. see the main goal on the ideas page.
237 2012-03-28T19:00:33 <ThomasWaldmann> there's just so much todo that we should fokus on the release critical stuff and keep other ideas for later.
238 2012-03-28T19:01:23 <MaikuMori> Alright, I'll focus on the given ideas then.
239 2012-03-28T19:02:00 <ThomasWaldmann> (the ideas of pastebin/calendar/issue tracker/blog are also somewhat questionable for these reasons, but the difference is that they can use a lot of code we already have and need new code that we also need at other places)
240 2012-03-28T19:02:55 <ThomasWaldmann> about typography, simplicity, etc: I agree.
241 2012-03-28T19:03:19 *** dave_largo
242 2012-03-28T19:03:23 <ThomasWaldmann> We just shall not make it simpler than needed. But we can make it as simple as possible. :)
243 2012-03-28T19:04:16 <ThomasWaldmann> i am not sure what exactly you think is the alternative to the trail (breadcrumbs). the back button of the browser?
244 2012-03-28T19:04:39 <MaikuMori> Yes back button and the whole history in the browser
245 2012-03-28T19:05:26 <ThomasWaldmann> well, if you try to work on the wiki using the back button, you'll see that this does not really work when editing stuff (or in general, often using non-show views)
246 2012-03-28T19:05:50 <MaikuMori> The way I see trail it's not really breadcrumbs.
247 2012-03-28T19:06:39 <ThomasWaldmann> (history in firefox has same issue btw, lists edits also)
248 2012-03-28T19:06:51 <ThomasWaldmann> trail == path breadcrumbs
249 2012-03-28T19:07:00 <MaikuMori> I as a user would never use back button to switch between pages, most browsers have tabs which I think are amazing for that kinda of thing.
250 2012-03-28T19:07:28 <ThomasWaldmann> there are users out there who did not discover that yet :D
251 2012-03-28T19:08:19 <MaikuMori> I can agree with that, would be actually interesting to see trail is being used in an active wiki.
252 2012-03-28T19:08:37 <MaikuMori> how much trail*
253 2012-03-28T19:09:21 <ThomasWaldmann> i don't have data about that, i use it sometimes. more often than browser history or back button.
254 2012-03-28T19:10:22 <MaikuMori> I mostly use tabs myself, no page reloads.
255 2012-03-28T19:10:38 <ThomasWaldmann> yeah, i of course also use tabs and MMB a lot
256 2012-03-28T19:11:49 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, the link to your twitter page on your homepage does not work
257 2012-03-28T19:12:14 *** greg_f
258 2012-03-28T19:12:50 <MaikuMori> Thanks, going to fix that. I'm more of a passive twitter user though, so nothing to see there.
259 2012-03-28T19:13:05 <ThomasWaldmann> (me too :)
260 2012-03-28T19:13:11 <MaikuMori> It does work for me though
261 2012-03-28T19:13:52 <ThomasWaldmann> huh, strange. it now works for me too. it did not a minute ago. strange.
262 2012-03-28T19:13:52 <MaikuMori> -> <a href="http://twitter.com/maikumori">Twitter</a>
263 2012-03-28T19:14:29 <ThomasWaldmann> and now again it does not work
264 2012-03-28T19:14:35 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe try it multiple times...
265 2012-03-28T19:14:52 <MaikuMori> It's a static html file, hmm.
266 2012-03-28T19:14:59 <ThomasWaldmann> "Sorry, diese Seite existiert nicht! " (Sorry, this page does not exist!)
267 2012-03-28T19:15:12 <ThomasWaldmann> https://twitter.com/#!/maikumori < seen there
268 2012-03-28T19:16:02 <ThomasWaldmann> now it works again. seems like a random bug. :D
269 2012-03-28T19:16:04 <MaikuMori> It should link to non SSL version, maybe you have some addon which redirects you to SSL version
270 2012-03-28T19:16:38 <ThomasWaldmann> i have "always use ssl" on for twitter.
271 2012-03-28T19:18:20 <dreimark> MaikuMori: the bread crumbs are important, shortform last history of your work
272 2012-03-28T19:18:34 <dreimark> it is remembered between browser sessions
273 2012-03-28T19:18:47 <dreimark> and in your account stored
274 2012-03-28T19:19:27 <brunomartin> ThomasWaldmann: will we save namespace in storage, or just in index? I'm doing this now, editing indexing to index namespace, and so on...
275 2012-03-28T19:19:28 <MaikuMori> Yeah I read the code. I guess if you maintain several pages it could be nice.
276 2012-03-28T19:19:30 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: i think in moin2 we use the session cookie for that right now.
277 2012-03-28T19:20:18 <dreimark> yes i think that is correct.
278 2012-03-28T19:20:44 <MaikuMori> ThomasWaldmann: Can't seem to reproduce the twitter thing, tried 2 browsers on 2 OSes.
279 2012-03-28T19:20:50 <dreimark> so i think i miss a platform independent trail then
280 2012-03-28T19:21:33 <ThomasWaldmann> MaikuMori: maybe they just have some problem here... - maybe ask some other twitter users
281 2012-03-28T19:21:34 <dreimark> MaikuMori: where is the twitter link, which page
282 2012-03-28T19:21:45 <MaikuMori> dreimark: maikumori.com
283 2012-03-28T19:21:53 <ThomasWaldmann> i followed the link about 6 times, 3 times worked, 3 times not
284 2012-03-28T19:22:31 <MaikuMori> ThomasWaldmann: Is that twitter 404 that you get?
285 2012-03-28T19:22:54 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: works for me
286 2012-03-28T19:23:58 <ThomasWaldmann> now it worked multiple times in sequence for me also. heisenbug.
287 2012-03-28T19:24:32 <ThomasWaldmann> MaikuMori: maybe you need to use it more often, so they don't have to load you from tape. :D
288 2012-03-28T19:25:03 <MaikuMori> dreimark: what about quicklinks/watchlist? What I don't like it, and it really confused me a while back when I tried moin1 is that it's jumping around much, I don't have much control over it. I suppose if you have only few pages you work with it's nice and I can see how it can be useful.
289 2012-03-28T19:25:52 <ThomasWaldmann> quicklinks in moin1 don't scale to large amounts. it looks rather messy then.
290 2012-03-28T19:26:18 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, i have to go to local LUG meeting, bbl
291 2012-03-28T19:27:33 <MaikuMori> With sidebar I belive 5-10 would still be okey. And you can make make the whole section collapsible.
292 2012-03-28T19:27:52 <MaikuMori> ThomasWaldmann: TTYL
293 2012-03-28T19:46:30 *** dave_largo
294 2012-03-28T19:48:19 <dreimark> MaikuMori: yes, once i had so much quicklinks that i used a separate page for them
295 2012-03-28T19:48:34 <dreimark> too much is not quick
296 2012-03-28T19:49:03 <dreimark> it lacks also grouping or sorting by priority
297 2012-03-28T19:49:30 <dreimark> there is also no stat how often a quicklink was used for navigation
298 2012-03-28T19:49:56 <dreimark> some automated cleanup or request for doing so is also helpful
299 2012-03-28T20:22:06 *** yufra
300 2012-03-28T20:29:10 *** MattMaker
301 2012-03-28T20:35:10 *** yufra
302 2012-03-28T22:40:10 *** dave_largo
303
