1 2012-05-03T00:37:02 *** dwcramer
2 2012-05-03T01:50:54 *** dwcramer
3 2012-05-03T03:42:36 *** sudo_dirk
4 2012-05-03T03:57:29 *** sudo_dirk
5 2012-05-03T04:50:19 *** dwcramer
6 2012-05-03T04:55:05 <breton_> oh damn.
7 2012-05-03T04:55:16 *** breton_
8 2012-05-03T05:14:31 <breton> ThomasWaldmann: finished reading Mercurial Book. Also, my network and syncing part sucks, see the XXX and some comments.
9 2012-05-03T05:33:35 *** MattMaker
10 2012-05-03T08:52:38 *** MattMaker
11 2012-05-03T09:31:04 <ThomasWaldmann> moin
12 2012-05-03T10:01:28 <ThomasWaldmann> breton: been there, but didn't see specific questions
13 2012-05-03T10:14:36 *** jek
14 2012-05-03T10:15:34 <breton> ThomasWaldmann: 1. how are non-existent parents handled now?
15 2012-05-03T10:20:31 *** jek_
16 2012-05-03T10:20:54 <ThomasWaldmann> i don't think we do much with the parents metadata yet, except setting it
17 2012-05-03T10:31:39 <breton> ThomasWaldmann: 2. what part of network and syncing part should be done on server side? I'd do all parsing and handling on client side, but you said something about implementing it on lower levels
18 2012-05-03T10:36:23 <dreimark> moin
19 2012-05-03T10:46:11 <ThomasWaldmann> breton: well, my idea was to do it on storage api level rather than views level, but we'll have to see that...
20 2012-05-03T11:40:16 *** greg_f
21 2012-05-03T12:11:45 *** MattMaker
22 2012-05-03T13:55:21 *** dwcramer
23 2012-05-03T14:43:48 *** dave_largo
24 2012-05-03T14:50:58 *** dwcramer
25 2012-05-03T15:00:27 *** kanha_
26 2012-05-03T15:00:40 *** kanha
27 2012-05-03T15:45:48 *** DasIch
28 2012-05-03T15:46:53 *** jaiditya
29 2012-05-03T15:49:00 <DasIch> hello guys
30 2012-05-03T15:49:35 <DasIch> I had no internet connection due to problems with my ISP for the last couple of days did I miss anything?
31 2012-05-03T15:56:33 *** jaiditya
32 2012-05-03T16:01:23 *** dwcramer
33 2012-05-03T16:05:20 <breton> DasIch: today at 16:00 UTC is a meeting
34 2012-05-03T16:05:50 <DasIch> breton: ok, that's 19:00 CEST, right?
35 2012-05-03T16:18:33 <dreimark> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=moin+gsoc+meeting&iso=20120503T16&ah=1&am=30
36 2012-05-03T16:22:16 <dreimark> or select the time zone convertor there
37 2012-05-03T16:23:06 <DasIch> dreimark: ah, thanks
38 2012-05-03T16:40:24 *** jaiditya
39 2012-05-03T16:40:41 <jaiditya> moin
40 2012-05-03T16:48:42 <MaikuMori> I might be a bit late for the meeting
41 2012-05-03T17:03:53 *** dwcramer
42 2012-05-03T17:11:31 <dreimark> jaiditya: do you work on the ep?
43 2012-05-03T17:14:33 <dreimark> MaikuMori: have you looked at sphinx plugins?
44 2012-05-03T17:14:53 <jaiditya> sorry i was not able to do much work. was busy completing university practicals ended today.
45 2012-05-03T17:17:21 *** dwcramer
46 2012-05-03T17:39:15 <dreimark> brb
47 2012-05-03T17:48:48 <jaiditya> dreimark: In foobar theme comment in local.html says "If you want itemviews in your template, extend from show.html, not from here." but meta.html has been extended from local.html
48 2012-05-03T17:53:53 <dreimark> jaiditya: collect that all on the ep
49 2012-05-03T17:54:17 <jaiditya> ok
50 2012-05-03T17:58:11 *** spy
51 2012-05-03T17:59:13 <breton> badumtss
52 2012-05-03T17:59:20 <breton> 16:00
53 2012-05-03T17:59:37 <dreimark> yeah, give a signal if you are here ;)
54 2012-05-03T17:59:45 <DasIch> HERE!!!
55 2012-05-03T17:59:47 <DasIch> ;)
56 2012-05-03T17:59:51 <xiaq> moin
57 2012-05-03T18:00:01 <waldi> *meld*
58 2012-05-03T18:00:08 <jaiditya> yup
59 2012-05-03T18:00:14 <spy> here!
60 2012-05-03T18:00:53 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, now here also (was on the phone)
61 2012-05-03T18:01:10 <dreimark> esyr: ping
62 2012-05-03T18:01:17 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, welcome to our first GSOC all-together meeting :)
63 2012-05-03T18:01:56 <ThomasWaldmann> we'll have these meetings once a week from now on, so that everybody knows what's going on and how the current state is.
64 2012-05-03T18:03:09 <ThomasWaldmann> currently (in community binding phase), it is not as strict as later, but we can already do some meeting training now, so it works better when coding phase has begun.
65 2012-05-03T18:03:41 *** dwcramer
66 2012-05-03T18:03:47 <ThomasWaldmann> breton: can you begin with LAST / BLOCKERS / NEXT ?
67 2012-05-03T18:04:58 <ThomasWaldmann> (btw, is anybody in a hurry and needs to leave soon?)
68 2012-05-03T18:05:36 * xiaq is currently on phone, but will have time till 1h30min later
69 2012-05-03T18:05:47 <ThomasWaldmann> breton: give a life sign :)
70 2012-05-03T18:05:50 <breton> here.
71 2012-05-03T18:06:00 <breton> LAST: (revert-sorted on time spent) finishing local project (done), learning Mercurial (done, but no practice), working on project description (in progress)
72 2012-05-03T18:06:03 <breton> BLOCKERS: none
73 2012-05-03T18:06:05 <breton> NEXT: discussing and refining plan on the etherpad.
74 2012-05-03T18:06:23 <ThomasWaldmann> perfect :)
75 2012-05-03T18:07:20 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, about mercurial practice: you can even do that locally on your filesystem (no need for bitbucket etc.), just create 2 local repos for push/pull
76 2012-05-03T18:07:54 <dreimark> breton: before you add there more content the line 15 XXX should be solved first
77 2012-05-03T18:07:54 <ThomasWaldmann> that is especially interesting for testing critical stuff you don't want to publish :D
78 2012-05-03T18:08:30 <dreimark> and remove that line when done
79 2012-05-03T18:08:44 <breton> ThomasWaldmann: well, it didn't help me too much when I was learning git. I will do it 3-4 days before the coding period starts
80 2012-05-03T18:09:03 <DasIch> breton: have you seen hginit.com ?
81 2012-05-03T18:09:28 <ThomasWaldmann> ( /me agrees about line 15 XXX )
82 2012-05-03T18:09:42 <breton> ThomasWaldmann: dreimark: ok, will do.
83 2012-05-03T18:09:45 *** greg_f
84 2012-05-03T18:10:06 <breton> DasIch: nope, thanks. But I'd appreciate something like git->hg howto.
85 2012-05-03T18:10:21 <dreimark> and about questions highlight the line on the chat window of the pad
86 2012-05-03T18:10:34 <ThomasWaldmann> we have a short page about the most important mercurial stuff on the wiki
87 2012-05-03T18:11:00 <ThomasWaldmann> http://moinmo.in/MoinDev/MercurialGuide
88 2012-05-03T18:11:19 <ThomasWaldmann> (but I am sure there are better tutorials out there and even books :)
89 2012-05-03T18:11:24 <dreimark> i think we also had a screencast
90 2012-05-03T18:11:54 <ThomasWaldmann> breton: any questions for mentors / about soc?
91 2012-05-03T18:13:01 <esyr> dreimark: pong
92 2012-05-03T18:13:16 <dreimark> esyr: welcome to the meeting
93 2012-05-03T18:13:31 <ThomasWaldmann> (in general, this is for all students, making a good clear plan before coding phase is essential, it'll cost you some time now, but will avoid losing time on try-and-error later)
94 2012-05-03T18:13:32 <esyr> yes, thank you for reminding
95 2012-05-03T18:14:04 <breton> ThomasWaldmann: well, none except some details, which can be discussed on the pad.
96 2012-05-03T18:14:41 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, thanks breton :) DasIch: your stage
97 2012-05-03T18:14:47 <spy>
98 2012-05-03T18:14:48 <breton> though I still cannot read the page with plugin proposal
99 2012-05-03T18:15:13 <esyr> breton: there is git-hg also, if you're bonded to git much.
100 2012-05-03T18:15:25 <ThomasWaldmann> breton: we'll ask MaikuMori when he's having the stage
101 2012-05-03T18:15:36 <DasIch> LAST: Added more details to my etherpad. That happened a lot later than it should have and I intended I apologize for that.
102 2012-05-03T18:15:44 <DasIch> BLOCKERS: None
103 2012-05-03T18:16:10 <ThomasWaldmann> (I read about your ISP problems, shit happens)
104 2012-05-03T18:16:13 <DasIch> NEXT: I will take a closer look at the Moin source code and see what's available and what might pose a problem for my project
105 2012-05-03T18:17:02 <dreimark> yes, you should look which of those functions just can be used
106 2012-05-03T18:17:10 <ThomasWaldmann> DasIch: as there's more content now, I'll have a more detailled look after the meeting and comment there.
107 2012-05-03T18:17:12 <DasIch> This should make time estimates easier and allow me to make a better schedule
108 2012-05-03T18:17:13 <dreimark> and which kind of different meta data you need
109 2012-05-03T18:17:28 <DasIch> that's it for now
110 2012-05-03T18:17:58 <ThomasWaldmann> for the blog / issue tracker / pastebin projects, a lot will be clever reusing and improving of existing stuff
111 2012-05-03T18:18:54 <dreimark> sure - communication what is needed must be done first
112 2012-05-03T18:18:57 <ThomasWaldmann> I also hope that we can do some collaboration on some commonly needed features, like UI widgets
113 2012-05-03T18:19:29 <ThomasWaldmann> (that's what this common flatland etherpad is for)
114 2012-05-03T18:19:51 <dreimark> DasIch: look on some of the js features of codereview
115 2012-05-03T18:20:15 <DasIch> Maybe we can make (a) separate branch(es)/repository for common stuff
116 2012-05-03T18:20:20 <DasIch> dreimark: I will
117 2012-05-03T18:20:46 <dreimark> e.g. for the ruler and the comments on lines
118 2012-05-03T18:21:20 <ThomasWaldmann> DasIch: yes, good idea. as long as it doesn't conflict, it maybe also can be just done in main repo
119 2012-05-03T18:21:54 <dreimark> ok, i think i add further comments direct to the pad
120 2012-05-03T18:22:05 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, now as paste.pocoo.org is gone, there's even more need for your project :D
121 2012-05-03T18:22:20 <ThomasWaldmann> and to avoid having same issues
122 2012-05-03T18:22:25 <dreimark> we have to look on lodgeit too
123 2012-05-03T18:22:44 <ThomasWaldmann> i hope we can use wiki soft security for good
124 2012-05-03T18:23:19 <DasIch> ThomasWaldmann: that reminds me, would it be acceptable to require the same auth for the pastebin as for other pages on the wiki?
125 2012-05-03T18:23:45 <DasIch> ThomasWaldmann: a public pastebin is probably incredibly hard to make secure
126 2012-05-03T18:23:58 <ThomasWaldmann> sure, we can use acls
127 2012-05-03T18:24:16 <dreimark> we have textcha, acls and we can add a new rule for urls
128 2012-05-03T18:24:34 <ThomasWaldmann> as i said: we already have quite a lot what we need, we just need to clever reuse it, refine it, make nice ui, etc.
129 2012-05-03T18:24:38 <dreimark> BadContent isn't yet implemented
130 2012-05-03T18:25:16 <ThomasWaldmann> and we hopefully can not only replace pastebins for text/code, but also for images, etc.
131 2012-05-03T18:25:44 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, any more questions for DasIch ?
132 2012-05-03T18:26:39 <ThomasWaldmann> if not, thanks DasIch. xiaq: your stage! :)
133 2012-05-03T18:27:04 * ThomasWaldmann uses the random order as seen on the GoogleSoc2012 wiki page
134 2012-05-03T18:27:29 <xiaq> LAST: work on etherpad (pretty much pushed by Thomas :) )
135 2012-05-03T18:27:39 <dreimark> haha
136 2012-05-03T18:27:39 <xiaq> also gone through the hg book
137 2012-05-03T18:27:57 <xiaq> BLOCKER: none
138 2012-05-03T18:28:29 <xiaq> NEXT: continue to refine the project, perhaps look at some source
139 2012-05-03T18:29:21 <dreimark> please review also for page and replace by item
140 2012-05-03T18:29:35 * ThomasWaldmann mentors DasIch and breton (but I can't resist commenting everywhere anyway, so don't wonder :).
141 2012-05-03T18:29:37 <dreimark> we should have a good wording match there.
142 2012-05-03T18:30:17 <xiaq> dreimark: hm i have got rid of all the "pages"
143 2012-05-03T18:30:34 <xiaq> dreimark: only 3 occurences on the etherpad
144 2012-05-03T18:30:37 <dreimark> then there is need for Version category pages
145 2012-05-03T18:30:53 <dreimark> i have no idea why it directly jumps on me
146 2012-05-03T18:31:33 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: btw, it was DasIch who said that he has seen cases where people didn't want to create an issue because it was "no problem"
147 2012-05-03T18:31:42 <xiaq> dreimark: it was by ronny
148 2012-05-03T18:31:58 <xiaq> dreimark: you picked up yellow :)
149 2012-05-03T18:32:05 <dreimark> shame
150 2012-05-03T18:32:17 <ThomasWaldmann> and i think i read some twitter stuff going in same direction also, saying that ticket sounds more positive
151 2012-05-03T18:32:51 <dreimark> we can clear all colors at some point in the future
152 2012-05-03T18:33:26 <ThomasWaldmann> somehow the colours are strange / messed up
153 2012-05-03T18:33:33 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: alright, are we also calling it a "ticket tracker"? :)
154 2012-05-03T18:33:49 <dreimark> xiaq: i have currently in any pad a different one and have selected the yellow one
155 2012-05-03T18:33:55 <xiaq> or still issue tracker, but use "ticket" anywhere else?
156 2012-05-03T18:33:56 <ThomasWaldmann> ticket system rather
157 2012-05-03T18:34:19 <dreimark> for now we can live with ticket system, until we have the better name
158 2012-05-03T18:34:53 <xiaq> no problem for me, though i still doubt it is a bit obscure..
159 2012-05-03T18:34:55 <dreimark> xiaq: index and acls can you think on that too
160 2012-05-03T18:35:19 * ThomasWaldmann thinks it is more generic. e.g. if you want to discuss plans or enhancements, that's not an "issue" (in the negative sense).
161 2012-05-03T18:35:55 <dreimark> what we can do with acls or if we need a defined set
162 2012-05-03T18:35:56 <xiaq> ok, so let's stick to the "ticket" terms
163 2012-05-03T18:36:40 <dreimark> for example hierarchical acls
164 2012-05-03T18:36:48 <ThomasWaldmann> uhoh
165 2012-05-03T18:37:08 <ThomasWaldmann> I'ld like to suggest to not open that can of worms
166 2012-05-03T18:37:26 <ThomasWaldmann> acls yes, but for now not hierarchical ones.
167 2012-05-03T18:37:33 <dreimark> ok, that should be noted on the pad
168 2012-05-03T18:38:03 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: hm your current color seems to conflict with dreimark's...
169 2012-05-03T18:38:13 * ThomasWaldmann hasn't made up his mind on hieracl yet, just noticed lots of trouble at the horizon.
170 2012-05-03T18:38:27 <dreimark> xiaq: we have some discussions on the tracker and wiki about hacl
171 2012-05-03T18:39:12 <xiaq> dreimark: care to share some links?
172 2012-05-03T18:39:37 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, xiaq: any questions? / or any other questions for xiaq?
173 2012-05-03T18:39:46 <xiaq> hm, so the part of on the ticket's item structure is almost finished i think
174 2012-05-03T18:40:02 <xiaq> i need your opinion on that ThomasWaldmann :)
175 2012-05-03T18:40:09 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: the main issue with hieracl is that that "hierarchy" is based in the name, which established parent and child items
176 2012-05-03T18:40:22 <xiaq> if so i will be working on the index and acl part
177 2012-05-03T18:40:36 <ThomasWaldmann> so, if you change names somehow, you are in trouble.
178 2012-05-03T18:40:44 <dreimark> https://bitbucket.org/thomaswaldmann/moin-2.0/issue/107/hierachical-acls
179 2012-05-03T18:41:27 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: btw, did you do the deep thinking about names, ids, ... already?
180 2012-05-03T18:41:32 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: seems that also seems to counter the style of using hashsum-based "content management" (vs. directory management)
181 2012-05-03T18:41:53 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: well i did some :)
182 2012-05-03T18:42:26 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, we can go through it on the pad later, give the line numbers there.
183 2012-05-03T18:43:02 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: haven't put it on the pad... some random ideas, mostly fruitless :)
184 2012-05-03T18:43:30 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, time slice is over, thanks to xiaq! MaikuMori's stage now.
185 2012-05-03T18:43:46 <MaikuMori> LAST: Refined proposal in etherpad.
186 2012-05-03T18:43:46 <MaikuMori> BLOCKER: None.
187 2012-05-03T18:43:46 <MaikuMori> NEXT: Decide what form the plugin system is going to take (standalone/flask_plugin or integrate it in MoinMoin). Look at MoinMoin source to see where the entry points should be and how they could look/work. Also figure out how to implement configuration. Work on several sections in the proposal. If it's going to be flask plugin then pitch the idea to flask community and get some feedback. I'd like to think more about specific implementations, currently
188 2012-05-03T18:43:46 <MaikuMori> the proposal is still too vague.
189 2012-05-03T18:44:13 <ThomasWaldmann> esyr: ^^
190 2012-05-03T18:44:51 <ThomasWaldmann> yeah, agreed.
191 2012-05-03T18:45:44 <ThomasWaldmann> i think it should be cleaned up and separated into generic plugin vs. flask extension (maybe) vs. what moin needs / how it is used by moin
192 2012-05-03T18:46:11 <esyr> hmmm.
193 2012-05-03T18:46:30 <dreimark> how do we handle theme templates? a plugin can alter one or have a new one
194 2012-05-03T18:46:33 <MaikuMori> The problem is that the implementation changes if it's flask extension
195 2012-05-03T18:47:01 <MaikuMori> Hopefully flask-themes will be dropped and it will be handled by plugin system
196 2012-05-03T18:47:02 <esyr> well, may be consider idea of entry points'hookups and plugin providers?
197 2012-05-03T18:47:02 <ThomasWaldmann> there are some plugin systems out there (I have looked at some a year ago or so), but somehow not the right thing for us
198 2012-05-03T18:47:17 <esyr> s/'/\//
199 2012-05-03T18:47:26 <MaikuMori> You could just register templates, altering the current ones could be too much hasle
200 2012-05-03T18:48:09 <esyr> so we can split one problem in multiple smaller (most precisely, plugin interface and plugin system implementation, which can vary and adopt differend needs)
201 2012-05-03T18:48:12 <MaikuMori> no one is stopping you from forking one of the theme plugins and just changing 2 lines if that's what you want.
202 2012-05-03T18:48:30 <MaikuMori> Umm
203 2012-05-03T18:48:50 <MaikuMori> I'm thinking about mixing Signals with ABC
204 2012-05-03T18:49:17 <MaikuMori> Plugins can implement abstract base class and do that classes role.
205 2012-05-03T18:49:44 <MaikuMori> Signals makes sense for the small things so you don't have tons of 5 line classes.
206 2012-05-03T18:49:47 <esyr> well, in tyrac plugins implement different interfaces related different types of interfaces.
207 2012-05-03T18:49:55 <esyr> *in trac
208 2012-05-03T18:50:00 <MaikuMori> Yeah I saw that.
209 2012-05-03T18:50:07 <esyr> (iirc you know it already)
210 2012-05-03T18:50:10 <esyr> ah, ok.
211 2012-05-03T18:50:23 <MaikuMori> I'm just thinking about use cases
212 2012-05-03T18:51:11 <MaikuMori> Generally you want to alter the main funcitons, not functions of some other plugin
213 2012-05-03T18:51:32 <MaikuMori> Though I can see where it could make interesting interactions.
214 2012-05-03T18:51:33 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe we can try to have something elegantly simple. not sure what that is, but it would have value by just that.
215 2012-05-03T18:51:53 <esyr> generally i think about plugins as callbacks/hooks mostly.
216 2012-05-03T18:52:14 <dreimark> please don't think only about one plugin type.
217 2012-05-03T18:52:25 <MaikuMori> Trac implementation is very thin and simple and yet it makes possible to make complex systems.
218 2012-05-03T18:52:28 *** DasIch-m
219 2012-05-03T18:52:32 <dreimark> i have lots which have a view, a template, a convertor etc.
220 2012-05-03T18:52:42 <esyr> dreimark: well, i can see how everything can be implemented in this paradigm. Or using ABC. Or using Signal.
221 2012-05-03T18:52:53 <esyr> the question is which paradigm is most suitable.
222 2012-05-03T18:53:09 <MaikuMori> I think of them more as ABC implementations and hooks.
223 2012-05-03T18:53:21 <esyr> *signal
224 2012-05-03T18:53:24 <esyr> *signals
225 2012-05-03T18:53:33 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe showing how it would look like would help
226 2012-05-03T18:53:35 <MaikuMori> Signals = hooks more or less
227 2012-05-03T18:53:40 <dreimark> can we get a table / discussion of pro and cons?
228 2012-05-03T18:53:44 <MaikuMori> Or maybe I misunderstand you interpretation
229 2012-05-03T18:53:46 <esyr> MaikuMori: mmm, not precisely.
230 2012-05-03T18:53:55 <esyr> (at least, in my mind)
231 2012-05-03T18:54:01 <MaikuMori> I understand it as event system
232 2012-05-03T18:54:11 <MaikuMori> with a fancy name
233 2012-05-03T18:54:29 <MaikuMori> plugins listen to events and the main code or other plugins emit events
234 2012-05-03T18:55:07 <esyr> yes, the question usually about actors and synchronization.
235 2012-05-03T18:55:10 <esyr> nevertheless.
236 2012-05-03T18:55:13 <ThomasWaldmann> one specific thing i am wondering about: is it just me or is someone else feeling bad if we would use setuptools entrypoints (in the light of pip and whatever we will have next for installing python stuff)?
237 2012-05-03T18:55:35 <MaikuMori> Whis is fine for simple cases, but if you want to implement something more complex ABC makes more sense.
238 2012-05-03T18:55:52 <MaikuMori> Well I want to use directory
239 2012-05-03T18:56:16 <MaikuMori> And then maybe add support for entry_points which should be only like 20 LOC or so.
240 2012-05-03T18:56:22 <esyr> ThomasWaldmann: adn what is bad with setuptools?
241 2012-05-03T18:56:26 <esyr> *and
242 2012-05-03T18:56:59 <DasIch-m> ThomasWaldmann: it's not just you but that's something you could talk to the packaging guys about
243 2012-05-03T18:57:01 <MaikuMori> entry_points are going to be dropped, but there is going to be another similar system or at least API with wich you can build one.
244 2012-05-03T18:57:16 <ThomasWaldmann> esyr: well, (AFAIK) it's code smells. AFAIK for that reason distribute was made. and then we have pip, and next we maybe will have packaging/distutils2.
245 2012-05-03T18:57:31 <esyr> hehe.
246 2012-05-03T18:57:34 <ThomasWaldmann> so it is kind of "install tool of the year", with slightly changing feature sets.
247 2012-05-03T18:57:44 <MaikuMori> Well it's the only way to make system wide plugin system
248 2012-05-03T18:58:10 <esyr> MaikuMori: as you can see from moin 1.x, not the only way :)
249 2012-05-03T18:58:18 <dreimark> however if we don't want to implement that also we have to use it
250 2012-05-03T18:58:31 <MaikuMori> I mean system wide as in it's universal for all packages
251 2012-05-03T18:58:45 <MaikuMori> It's simply there. You chose to use it or not.
252 2012-05-03T18:58:47 <esyr> (that's why i have idea with plugin interface and plugin provider separated)
253 2012-05-03T18:59:05 <MaikuMori> I'm not quite sure I understand your idea there
254 2012-05-03T18:59:43 <MaikuMori> Do you mean that moinmoin has plugin interface and the whole plugin system is seperate package?
255 2012-05-03T19:00:20 <ThomasWaldmann> esyr: btw, you added some stuff in the misc section - can we try to relocate the parts of that where they belong to?
256 2012-05-03T19:00:28 <ThomasWaldmann> (on the etherpad)
257 2012-05-03T19:00:37 <esyr> well, generally we have some generic interface for registering/unregistering events and hooks and some implementation which do handling of plugin discovery, loading calling and so on.
258 2012-05-03T19:00:55 <esyr> ThomasWaldmann: yes, of course, i just want it to become more formed.
259 2012-05-03T19:00:57 * dreimark we have two other waiting
260 2012-05-03T19:01:06 <esyr> (it begins just from some thoughts in my head)
261 2012-05-03T19:01:35 <MaikuMori> Isn't that what we're proposing at the moment more or less
262 2012-05-03T19:01:46 <ThomasWaldmann> yup. esyr i think you can contribute a lot, but we have to continue with next students. please dump your brain on the etherpad. :)
263 2012-05-03T19:01:58 <MaikuMori> Except the registration for events/hooks isn't quite defined yet
264 2012-05-03T19:02:06 <esyr> MaikuMori: mostly, ecept the separation of discussing how precisely plugins are implemented.
265 2012-05-03T19:02:14 <esyr> *except
266 2012-05-03T19:02:26 <dreimark> spy: please prepare
267 2012-05-03T19:02:39 <esyr> MaikuMori: yeah, i'd like to split one undefuined entity into two undefined entities :)
268 2012-05-03T19:02:40 <ThomasWaldmann> (or discussion after meeting end right here)
269 2012-05-03T19:02:44 <spy> LAST: learning Mercrurial (in progress), looked at source code related to items.
270 2012-05-03T19:02:50 <spy> BLOCKERS: none
271 2012-05-03T19:02:59 <spy> NEXT: Understand what kind of namespace/meta/contenttype I should use (look also at mediawiki blog extention and Issue tracker ideas on etherpad), describing/defining the work on my project on etherpad, discussing on #moin-dev.
272 2012-05-03T19:03:04 <esyr> *undefined
273 2012-05-03T19:03:42 <dreimark> spy: it would be good you would work more visible on the pad.
274 2012-05-03T19:04:06 <dreimark> I missed you the last days
275 2012-05-03T19:04:29 <dreimark> because your project is a bit similiar to the pastebin and issuetracker one
276 2012-05-03T19:04:30 <spy> I took exams
277 2012-05-03T19:04:39 <spy> yes, I understand that
278 2012-05-03T19:04:55 <ThomasWaldmann> just fill much more contents into the pad
279 2012-05-03T19:05:00 <dreimark> you can get some ideas from those too.
280 2012-05-03T19:05:01 <ThomasWaldmann> it's good for feedback
281 2012-05-03T19:05:36 <dreimark> you can completly ignore the topics i set if you have a better approach
282 2012-05-03T19:05:47 <ThomasWaldmann> and you don't need to break your brain thinking about the specific content-type, if we need one, we'll find one.
283 2012-05-03T19:05:51 <dreimark> but those are the parts you need to think on
284 2012-05-03T19:05:57 <ThomasWaldmann> rather about how the whole thing will work
285 2012-05-03T19:06:55 <spy> ok, will talk about it soon in irc
286 2012-05-03T19:07:24 <dreimark> pleaase add to your homepage for now times you are not available for exams
287 2012-05-03T19:07:45 <dreimark> s/for/because/
288 2012-05-03T19:08:01 <spy> I will
289 2012-05-03T19:08:07 <dreimark> so it did not sound vanished student to me
290 2012-05-03T19:08:51 <ThomasWaldmann> spy: btw, if you need pointers to some specific parts of the src or anything else, just ask
291 2012-05-03T19:09:16 <ThomasWaldmann> communication is a good part of gsoc (and google will ask us all how good the communication was :)
292 2012-05-03T19:09:22 <DasIch-m> That reminds me I probably won't be available via IRC on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday morning
293 2012-05-03T19:09:45 <dreimark> just see the work on the ep for formulating a plan how the work will be done
294 2012-05-03T19:10:16 <dreimark> and we all can find parts which overlap with other projects
295 2012-05-03T19:10:22 <dreimark> e.g. ui elements
296 2012-05-03T19:10:49 <ThomasWaldmann> (maybe if there is planned offline time, put some note on your project page. it is a bit hard to remember everyones dates.)
297 2012-05-03T19:11:38 <ThomasWaldmann> any other questions to/from spy?
298 2012-05-03T19:12:20 <spy> sure, it would be better for me too. I think no, after meeting I will talk a little about my project
299 2012-05-03T19:12:23 <dreimark> evreything said - for now
300 2012-05-03T19:12:32 <ThomasWaldmann> if not, thanks spy! last, but not least: jaiditya
301 2012-05-03T19:12:38 <jaiditya> LAST: Understanding the code, basically the template structure, dealing with jinja2. Looking for unimplemented features in foobar theme.
302 2012-05-03T19:12:46 <jaiditya> BLOCKERS: none
303 2012-05-03T19:13:08 <jaiditya> NEXT: Work on implementation of "Content Editable" to content areas using html5. Moreover working on javascript to lock and convert html5 to reST for using same for pages in reST. Further look foobar theme for unimplemented features and content styling . Refine plans on etherpad.
304 2012-05-03T19:14:27 <dreimark> jaiditya: you can also describe ideas how to make the template structure better
305 2012-05-03T19:14:38 <ThomasWaldmann> jaiditya: that html5 to rest, for what exactly is it?
306 2012-05-03T19:14:38 <dreimark> or improve it.
307 2012-05-03T19:14:59 <ThomasWaldmann> waldi: ^^
308 2012-05-03T19:16:28 <jaiditya> content editable is for html5. so for pages in reST we have to convert those pages back to reST
309 2012-05-03T19:16:42 <dreimark> an example for line 8 would be good
310 2012-05-03T19:17:06 <ThomasWaldmann> jaiditya: you are aware that we support lots of different markups in python code?
311 2012-05-03T19:18:17 <dreimark> foobar theme misses more than usersettings
312 2012-05-03T19:18:25 <jaiditya> yeah
313 2012-05-03T19:19:29 <ThomasWaldmann> so, before you try implementing something (which is rather work for the coding phase), I'ld like to see some planning / reasoning about it on the etherpad
314 2012-05-03T19:19:38 <dreimark> for now I would say "Content Editable" should be moved to the end of tasks
315 2012-05-03T19:19:54 <jaiditya> ok.
316 2012-05-03T19:20:06 <dreimark> and show a more detailed plan of work packages
317 2012-05-03T19:21:09 <ThomasWaldmann> the format converters we have in python are about half a summer of code each, I doubt you want to do that all again in js. :D
318 2012-05-03T19:21:48 <ThomasWaldmann> (but maybe I am misunderstanding you, that's why there should be more planning/discussion)
319 2012-05-03T19:22:01 <dreimark> the stuff there is a bit vague, that means I don't see if you or if you not have looked deep enough to see something which will block you
320 2012-05-03T19:22:22 <ThomasWaldmann> waldi: are you there?
321 2012-05-03T19:23:32 <jaiditya> i'll not gone through that part deeply yet. i'll refine it asap
322 2012-05-03T19:23:40 <waldi> jaiditya: i see no real plan in the etherpad
323 2012-05-03T19:24:59 <ThomasWaldmann> one great goal for you could be "let moin2 look consistently great" :) I could live without contenteditable if we could reach that. :D
324 2012-05-03T19:25:00 <jaiditya> i think i misunderstood the problem. so at the moment i'll be implementing content editable for only html and reST .
325 2012-05-03T19:25:33 <waldi> jaiditya: right now is not the time to implement anything, at least if this should be part of SOC
326 2012-05-03T19:25:54 <ThomasWaldmann> yup, $RULES
327 2012-05-03T19:26:19 <ThomasWaldmann> (of course one can play around with some code, but we must not count that for soc)
328 2012-05-03T19:27:08 <jaiditya> oh i don't mean writing the code now. i meant for SoC period only
329 2012-05-03T19:27:09 <ThomasWaldmann> but you can make coding phase much more relaxed if you have a good detailled plan until then with mentors agreeing
330 2012-05-03T19:28:02 <dreimark> jaiditya: currently i think you should first have a plan overall and the work on details like this tool
331 2012-05-03T19:28:11 <xiaq> hm i've been considering doing some quick prototyping before coding phase begins too
332 2012-05-03T19:28:17 <ThomasWaldmann> how was that saying "with some weeks of coding, you can save an hour of thinking."
333 2012-05-03T19:29:20 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: that can be seen as advanced planning maybe, depends
334 2012-05-03T19:29:30 <jaiditya> so primarily i'll refine the plans first
335 2012-05-03T19:29:36 <dreimark> yes
336 2012-05-03T19:29:40 <dreimark> waldi: ?
337 2012-05-03T19:29:47 <waldi> yes
338 2012-05-03T19:30:03 <ThomasWaldmann> jaiditya: did you use moin2 yet practically?
339 2012-05-03T19:30:18 <jaiditya> yeah
340 2012-05-03T19:30:26 <xiaq> hey is the meeting officially over?
341 2012-05-03T19:30:35 <dreimark> xiaq: soon
342 2012-05-03T19:30:49 <ThomasWaldmann> every time you think "oh man, that looks bad" would make a good item for SOC :)
343 2012-05-03T19:31:15 <jaiditya> ofcourse
344 2012-05-03T19:31:25 <ThomasWaldmann> you can help us a lot, obviously we are not designers
345 2012-05-03T19:31:41 <ThomasWaldmann> (except software)
346 2012-05-03T19:32:23 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, looks like meeting time is over.
347 2012-05-03T19:32:41 <ThomasWaldmann> thanks to everybody for participating!
348 2012-05-03T19:33:24 <breton> ty too.
349 2012-05-03T19:33:31 <jaiditya> thank u all
350 2012-05-03T19:33:35 <ThomasWaldmann> (random irc discussions now and non-random etherpadding)
351 2012-05-03T19:33:55 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: i've been thinking about the name/id/url stuff
352 2012-05-03T19:34:17 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: when another question came to me
353 2012-05-03T19:34:28 <xiaq> moin2 uses hashsum for itemid
354 2012-05-03T19:34:40 <ThomasWaldmann> uuids rather
355 2012-05-03T19:34:55 <ThomasWaldmann> but also long strange hex stuff, yes.
356 2012-05-03T19:35:16 <xiaq> i wonder what's wrong with an auto-incrementing number?
357 2012-05-03T19:35:25 <xiaq> DVCS needs long strange hex number...
358 2012-05-03T19:35:39 <xiaq> because there's no single authority to keep track of those numbers..
359 2012-05-03T19:35:41 <ThomasWaldmann> not being a uuid, that's what's wrong
360 2012-05-03T19:36:16 <ThomasWaldmann> did i tell that bitbucket "closed #xxx" fsckup to you already?
361 2012-05-03T19:36:33 <xiaq> yeah
362 2012-05-03T19:37:06 <xiaq> so we have "close a43b76ef978a234b0e435" instead? :)
363 2012-05-03T19:37:22 <ThomasWaldmann> yes
364 2012-05-03T19:37:42 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe you could also say "close a43b7" as long as it is unique.
365 2012-05-03T19:37:52 <xiaq> hm
366 2012-05-03T19:38:08 <dreimark> or ←↓←→→ĸ←ħð
367 2012-05-03T19:38:18 <ThomasWaldmann> but that's be far better than closing random unrelated issues :)
368 2012-05-03T19:38:46 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: well, "a43b7" is not guaranteered to be unique later
369 2012-05-03T19:38:51 <ThomasWaldmann> just because everybody starts counting at 1 (or zero)
370 2012-05-03T19:39:21 <ThomasWaldmann> i guess dvcses have same problem
371 2012-05-03T19:39:34 <ThomasWaldmann> noone solves it except being good enough
372 2012-05-03T19:39:55 <ThomasWaldmann> if hell freezes over first, noone will care for your misclosed issue afterwards
373 2012-05-03T19:40:45 <dreimark> instead of the hexnumber we could also encode it to a http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicodeblock_Verschiedene_Symbole unicode symbol
374 2012-05-03T19:40:53 <ThomasWaldmann> s/hell freezes over/sun explodes/ # for the non-believers :DD
375 2012-05-03T19:41:23 <xiaq> dreimark: i vote for trigrams :)
376 2012-05-03T19:41:52 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: because urls are so greatly made for unicode? :P
377 2012-05-03T19:42:28 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: we can use every char that needs no url escaping then...
378 2012-05-03T19:42:39 <ThomasWaldmann> bad idea
379 2012-05-03T19:42:50 <xiaq> hm?
380 2012-05-03T19:42:59 <dreimark> for the the hexnumber
381 2012-05-03T19:43:03 <ThomasWaldmann> (because we often need those chars for other purposes)
382 2012-05-03T19:43:25 <xiaq> well, only [0-9a-z] then, or just [0-9a-e]
383 2012-05-03T19:43:26 <ThomasWaldmann> so let's just use the hex number, it is simple and at least dvcs people are used to them anyway
384 2012-05-03T19:43:52 <xiaq> adopting base-36 would make it much shorter :-P
385 2012-05-03T19:44:20 <ThomasWaldmann> and if we only used 4 digits, that is a chance of 1:65536 for collisions
386 2012-05-03T19:44:53 <ThomasWaldmann> (assuming random distribution)
387 2012-05-03T19:45:09 <ThomasWaldmann> if that's not enough, lets use more
388 2012-05-03T19:45:35 <ThomasWaldmann> if we use 1..., a collision WILL happen
389 2012-05-03T19:45:49 <ThomasWaldmann> (i mean for just incrementing numbers)
390 2012-05-03T19:46:13 <xiaq> hm.. 4 digits is enough if you want it unique within a site, but not if you want it globally unique
391 2012-05-03T19:46:38 <dreimark> hmm, at the time we have the namespace branch, we could also think about a increasng number as an alias name for the hexnumber
392 2012-05-03T19:46:51 <ThomasWaldmann> also, you need to find out next number, which is either state keeping or looking up max(oldnumbers)
393 2012-05-03T19:46:54 *** DasIch-m
394 2012-05-03T19:47:17 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: we can handle that dynamically
395 2012-05-03T19:47:20 <dreimark> so that it did not look that strange to someone else who is using a ticket system not for coding
396 2012-05-03T19:47:47 <ThomasWaldmann> likely my hello world project would be ok with 1 digit while the linux kernel project might want 10
397 2012-05-03T19:48:48 <dreimark> the hexnumber has an useability issue
398 2012-05-03T19:48:48 <xiaq> hm..
399 2012-05-03T19:48:48 <ThomasWaldmann> internally, we have the full length of course
400 2012-05-03T19:49:14 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: which?
401 2012-05-03T19:49:17 <xiaq> if we only seek to solve the robot problem
402 2012-05-03T19:49:31 <dreimark> try to tell about - no one can speak that
403 2012-05-03T19:49:55 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: it's no different from dvcs
404 2012-05-03T19:49:56 <xiaq> the "robot comments on the wrong issue tracker when looking at the commit log" problem
405 2012-05-03T19:50:20 <dreimark> that just means they don't have a solution
406 2012-05-03T19:50:20 <xiaq> if it's only for the robot problem
407 2012-05-03T19:50:41 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: no, they don't have a problem :)
408 2012-05-03T19:50:48 <dreimark> yeah
409 2012-05-03T19:51:01 <xiaq> just name tickets "moinmo.in#42" and have committers write that
410 2012-05-03T19:51:17 <dreimark> that spelling problem may be the reason for the bb numbers
411 2012-05-03T19:51:30 <ThomasWaldmann> and it is not only for the robot problem (closing wrong bug due to misidentifying the bug)
412 2012-05-03T19:52:01 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: and what additional trouble is caused by count from 1? :)
413 2012-05-03T19:52:06 <ThomasWaldmann> it is just about being able to identify something globally with low probability of failure
414 2012-05-03T19:52:42 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: you have 100 bugs in your tracker, choose one, tell me the number
415 2012-05-03T19:53:15 <xiaq> well, moinmo.in#42 feels good enough for me
416 2012-05-03T19:53:25 <xiaq> domain names are not GUIDs but they are unique
417 2012-05-03T19:53:27 <dreimark> after a merge the numbers are not unique
418 2012-05-03T19:53:34 <dreimark> but the uuid is
419 2012-05-03T19:54:05 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: yeah, adding the domain would solve it, but then the simplicity is gone
420 2012-05-03T19:54:18 <ThomasWaldmann> and if you choose to switch your domain...
421 2012-05-03T19:55:02 <dreimark> looks to me we need a mapping somehow similiar to our mapping name to uuid
422 2012-05-03T19:55:03 <ThomasWaldmann> for exactly the same reason noone should ever use the changeset number with mercurial, but always the hash
423 2012-05-03T19:55:37 <ThomasWaldmann> the hash uniquely identifies the changeset, the number does not
424 2012-05-03T19:55:38 <dreimark> e.g. alt text like in the ui
425 2012-05-03T19:56:01 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: well i came from Git :) Git got only hash, no number
426 2012-05-03T19:56:09 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: that's the next problem, let's first solve the first
427 2012-05-03T19:57:19 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: another problem related to counting (we had that in moin 1.x) is that you have to lock to create the next number
428 2012-05-03T19:57:45 <ThomasWaldmann> if you don't and it is not atomic (it is not), you might get duplicates by concurrency
429 2012-05-03T19:58:15 <ThomasWaldmann> it's so much more relaxed in moin2 with just creating the next uuid :)
430 2012-05-03T19:58:18 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: interesting, makes sense to me
431 2012-05-03T19:58:43 <ThomasWaldmann> (and hoping that whoever implemented THAT didn't fuck it up :D )
432 2012-05-03T19:59:13 * dreimark don't ask about win32
433 2012-05-03T19:59:13 * ThomasWaldmann thinks of random number generators in popular linux dists
434 2012-05-03T19:59:34 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: i wonder what's the consequence of the locking stuff? does that result in lots of extra code or something?
435 2012-05-03T19:59:46 <xiaq> or bad performance?
436 2012-05-03T20:00:02 <dreimark> it can be very different on all platforms
437 2012-05-03T20:00:03 <xiaq> or it just feels bad? :)
438 2012-05-03T20:00:19 <ThomasWaldmann> lock, determine last number, increment it, make new record, unlock
439 2012-05-03T20:00:51 <ThomasWaldmann> determine last number == either remember the current number somewhere and read it
440 2012-05-03T20:00:52 <dreimark> and determine if lock has expired
441 2012-05-03T20:01:03 <ThomasWaldmann> or you have to read ALL numbers and find the max
442 2012-05-03T20:01:29 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: dreimark: wow seems you two are saying "this locking stuff is crap" :)
443 2012-05-03T20:01:30 <ThomasWaldmann> both is somehow stupid once you have found that hash or uuid way
444 2012-05-03T20:01:34 <dreimark> and items can be purged
445 2012-05-03T20:01:40 <dreimark> so you have a missing number
446 2012-05-03T20:01:55 <ThomasWaldmann> and you have to renumber
447 2012-05-03T20:02:08 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: or live with the hole...
448 2012-05-03T20:02:21 <xiaq> (ps. it's called a hole in Lua)
449 2012-05-03T20:02:22 <ThomasWaldmann> (if you like nice sequences without holes)
450 2012-05-03T20:02:36 <dreimark> then you need more rules because you don't know the neighbour
451 2012-05-03T20:03:06 <ThomasWaldmann> that's why we have revid and parentid now :)
452 2012-05-03T20:03:52 <xiaq> hm
453 2012-05-03T20:03:56 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, for now lets assume hg and git just did the right thing with that long hex number
454 2012-05-03T20:04:08 <xiaq> okay.
455 2012-05-03T20:04:21 <ThomasWaldmann> what do we do with the "name" metadata?
456 2012-05-03T20:04:48 <ThomasWaldmann> how do we access tickets?
457 2012-05-03T20:05:14 <ThomasWaldmann> (i mean the url)
458 2012-05-03T20:05:27 <xiaq> it can be either just the title
459 2012-05-03T20:05:33 <xiaq> or anything else :)
460 2012-05-03T20:06:10 <ThomasWaldmann> http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinBugs/HttpPostResponseFromStandaloneServerMakesInternetExplorer6Unhappy
461 2012-05-03T20:06:13 <dreimark> title can be long
462 2012-05-03T20:06:23 <ThomasWaldmann> do you know why such stuff happens in moin 1.x?
463 2012-05-03T20:06:27 <dreimark> and think on differnt languages
464 2012-05-03T20:06:46 <xiaq> hm, unified name for different languages?
465 2012-05-03T20:07:13 <xiaq> the discussion will be in English anyway.
466 2012-05-03T20:07:18 <ThomasWaldmann> (i mean such ridiculously long camelcase page names)
467 2012-05-03T20:07:19 <dreimark> i think we should have a short name
468 2012-05-03T20:08:01 <xiaq> i thought about making name == "short name" and title == "long name"
469 2012-05-03T20:08:01 <ThomasWaldmann> it is because moin 1.x displays it in big letters and people think that is the title
470 2012-05-03T20:08:07 <dreimark> xiaq: on a chinese ticket system there is no reason to discuss in english
471 2012-05-03T20:08:25 <ThomasWaldmann> but in fact the title should be inside the document
472 2012-05-03T20:09:03 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: i still don't get the relationship of long camelcase page name and language
473 2012-05-03T20:09:17 <dreimark> url should be similiar to tinyurl
474 2012-05-03T20:09:29 <ThomasWaldmann> it is like document filename and url vs. (text processor) document and (wiki item) content
475 2012-05-03T20:09:40 <dreimark> very short and expand to the long version later
476 2012-05-03T20:09:49 <dreimark> but for posting short and in a defined way
477 2012-05-03T20:09:54 <ThomasWaldmann> i didn't mention language
478 2012-05-03T20:10:15 <xiaq> oops, it was dreimark who brought that up
479 2012-05-03T20:10:41 <dreimark> I was not refering to ThomasWaldmann example
480 2012-05-03T20:11:03 <dreimark> 20:08 < dreimark> title can be long
481 2012-05-03T20:11:07 <ThomasWaldmann> https://bitbucket.org/thomaswaldmann/moin-2.0/issue/185/creating-more-than-one-user-is-resulting
482 2012-05-03T20:11:15 <ThomasWaldmann> this is how bitbucket makes urls ^^
483 2012-05-03T20:11:29 <ThomasWaldmann> https://bitbucket.org/thomaswaldmann/moin-2.0/issue/185
484 2012-05-03T20:11:37 <ThomasWaldmann> this will go to same issue ^^
485 2012-05-03T20:11:54 <dreimark> http://tinyurl.com/cylfhr9
486 2012-05-03T20:11:57 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: yeah have noticed that...
487 2012-05-03T20:12:03 <dreimark> and this is the tiny version
488 2012-05-03T20:12:29 <ThomasWaldmann> so they have some id in there that does the work (and some text so humans see beforehands what it is about)
489 2012-05-03T20:12:32 <dreimark> as we have already the uuid we can use
490 2012-05-03T20:12:34 <dreimark> it
491 2012-05-03T20:13:31 <ThomasWaldmann> github only has the id
492 2012-05-03T20:14:00 <xiaq> well, tickets.moinmo.in/a75ef76beff435ecdd5646eac90/HttpPostResponseFromStandaloneServerMakesInternetExplorer6Unhappy ?
493 2012-05-03T20:14:05 <xiaq> :-P
494 2012-05-03T20:14:12 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: can we have for any item the url as tiny uuid version?
495 2012-05-03T20:14:46 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: usually not
496 2012-05-03T20:15:19 <dreimark> test.moino.in/ID=57d392557d3925
497 2012-05-03T20:15:37 *** dwcramer
498 2012-05-03T20:15:37 <ThomasWaldmann> i am somehow thinking about tickets.moinmo.in/ID=12ab34
499 2012-05-03T20:15:59 <ThomasWaldmann> (the ID= part has to be seen)
500 2012-05-03T20:16:17 <xiaq> well, what about letting the user to choose the short name?
501 2012-05-03T20:16:42 <xiaq> so we have tickets.moinmo.in/respie6
502 2012-05-03T20:16:46 <ThomasWaldmann> alternatively, one could use the usual addressing by name, like tickets.moinmo.in/issue%20numbering%20issue
503 2012-05-03T20:17:15 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: yes, it is like creating a new wiki page
504 2012-05-03T20:17:45 <ThomasWaldmann> you choose a name (maybe with some support so it is not duplicate and also otherwise "sane")
505 2012-05-03T20:17:51 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: the upside is that when someone is actively working on an issue, he/she can remember it for a while
506 2012-05-03T20:17:58 <ThomasWaldmann> you get an itemid (as ever)
507 2012-05-03T20:18:00 <xiaq> and avoid copying the long hex number every time
508 2012-05-03T20:18:32 <ThomasWaldmann> yes, I am good for rememberable names :)
509 2012-05-03T20:18:40 <dreimark> xiaq: therefore i thouht about using quicklinks
510 2012-05-03T20:19:20 <dreimark> but images or names are better to remember
511 2012-05-03T20:19:36 <ThomasWaldmann> so basically we just use the normal access mechanism by name plus a new (separate) one by itemid?
512 2012-05-03T20:20:00 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: sounds reasonable
513 2012-05-03T20:20:14 <ThomasWaldmann> with the itemid one being flexible, so prefixes are ok also as long as they are unique?
514 2012-05-03T20:20:36 <dreimark> by itemid not only for issues, this is always better if you want to insert it somewhere
515 2012-05-03T20:20:44 <dreimark> (well don't do a typo)
516 2012-05-03T20:21:04 <ThomasWaldmann> dreimark: we need that itemid linking anyways, everywhere :)
517 2012-05-03T20:21:05 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: well itemid is when you want something eternal :)
518 2012-05-03T20:21:14 <ThomasWaldmann> it is the permalink
519 2012-05-03T20:21:27 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: exactly
520 2012-05-03T20:21:37 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: unambigious prefix is not eternal
521 2012-05-03T20:21:47 <xiaq> (i must have messed up the spelling...)
522 2012-05-03T20:21:56 <ThomasWaldmann> nothing is eternal
523 2012-05-03T20:22:15 <ThomasWaldmann> the full thing is just being unique for longer than the short one
524 2012-05-03T20:22:55 <ThomasWaldmann> or lets say, less likely to have collisions
525 2012-05-03T20:23:44 <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: you keep that in the pad?
526 2012-05-03T20:23:49 *** dwcramer
527 2012-05-03T20:24:02 <xiaq> yeah
528 2012-05-03T20:24:35 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe try to make up some real url design for it
529 2012-05-03T20:25:00 <ThomasWaldmann> that is somehow compatible and great
530 2012-05-03T20:25:36 <dreimark> ok, i have to do some shopping
531 2012-05-03T20:25:40 <dreimark> bbl
532 2012-05-03T20:27:13 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: if we have a property that's seldom changes once the ticket is created
533 2012-05-03T20:27:17 <xiaq> we can make that part of the URL
534 2012-05-03T20:27:37 <ThomasWaldmann> for what reason?
535 2012-05-03T20:28:17 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: well that makes the hex itemid conveal some meanings
536 2012-05-03T20:28:26 <xiaq> i mean the URL using hex itemid
537 2012-05-03T20:29:01 <xiaq> so that we have tickets.moinmo.in/ui/id=1234ab
538 2012-05-03T20:29:13 <xiaq> .../dom/id=4567ef
539 2012-05-03T20:29:29 <ThomasWaldmann> with ui being the name of the ticket?
540 2012-05-03T20:29:48 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: no, the "property that seldom changes" (i'm using `component`)
541 2012-05-03T20:30:19 <ThomasWaldmann> well... is that helpful?
542 2012-05-03T20:30:43 <ThomasWaldmann> you only know it's one of these 100 ui tickets :)
543 2012-05-03T20:31:10 <xiaq> well you can make the uuid prefix even shorter
544 2012-05-03T20:31:36 <xiaq> (since the total set is smaller)
545 2012-05-03T20:31:44 <ThomasWaldmann> tickets.moinmo.in/short_issue_name?itemid=1234ab
546 2012-05-03T20:32:29 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: the "?itemid=1234ab" is redundant perhaps
547 2012-05-03T20:32:30 <ThomasWaldmann> it could do first lookup by name and for empty result, use the id
548 2012-05-03T20:33:16 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: to allow for name changes?
549 2012-05-03T20:33:28 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe we just keep it simple: either itemid or name :)
550 2012-05-03T20:34:00 <breton> tickets.moinmo.in/1234ab/
551 2012-05-03T20:34:03 <ThomasWaldmann> we could show a list of matches in case the itemid doesn't yield a single result
552 2012-05-03T20:34:34 <ThomasWaldmann> that could even be a feature for name prefix lookups
553 2012-05-03T20:35:18 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: part of reason i want (say component) a property in the URL is that it can impose some rule on the arbitrary naming
554 2012-05-03T20:35:37 *** dwcramer
555 2012-05-03T20:35:43 <ThomasWaldmann> for the url dispatcher?
556 2012-05-03T20:36:40 <ThomasWaldmann> or just to make the list of all tickets somehow cleaner / sorted?
557 2012-05-03T20:36:50 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: no i mean it's basically meant to force you name your ticket as "ui/foo" or "wsgi/bar"
558 2012-05-03T20:37:05 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: yes to make the names more regular
559 2012-05-03T20:37:18 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: or people will be giving random names...
560 2012-05-03T20:37:19 <ThomasWaldmann> and when someone misclassifies, you (namebased) url changes...
561 2012-05-03T20:37:28 <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: yep that's the problem
562 2012-05-03T20:37:33 <ThomasWaldmann> and namebased links break
563 2012-05-03T20:38:04 <ThomasWaldmann> i guess we are better off without that
564 2012-05-03T20:38:23 <ThomasWaldmann> for list building, we can use whoosh and sort by anything we want anyway
565 2012-05-03T20:38:35 <xiaq> okay. that was just one of my random ideas :)
566 2012-05-03T20:39:13 * xiaq needs to Zzzz soon, it's 2:40AM here...
567 2012-05-03T20:39:30 <ThomasWaldmann> ah, right |-)
568 2012-05-03T20:39:42 <xiaq> cu all
569 2012-05-03T20:39:47 <ThomasWaldmann> and me needs some dinner, gn xiaq
570 2012-05-03T20:40:26 <xiaq> gn :)
571 2012-05-03T20:44:00 <dreimark> gn
572 2012-05-03T21:13:20 *** jaiditya
573 2012-05-03T21:25:56 *** RogerHaase
574 2012-05-03T23:14:09 *** jaiditya
575 2012-05-03T23:18:09 *** dave_largo
576 2012-05-03T23:29:47 *** dwcramer
577
