1 2012-11-09T00:13:49 *** brunomartin
2 2012-11-09T00:13:51 *** bruno_
3 2012-11-09T00:14:42 *** brunomartin
4 2012-11-09T00:32:08 *** dwcramer
5 2012-11-09T01:03:24 *** dwcramer
6 2012-11-09T01:16:03 *** dwcramer
7 2012-11-09T02:23:01 *** MattMaker
8 2012-11-09T06:02:16 *** dwcramer
9 2012-11-09T06:19:25 *** MattMaker
10 2012-11-09T06:45:56 *** MattMaker
11 2012-11-09T06:46:02 *** Trip_
12 2012-11-09T08:46:26 *** Trip_
13 2012-11-09T09:54:00 *** Marenz
14 2012-11-09T10:04:42 *** Marenz
15 2012-11-09T10:38:07 <ThomasWaldmann> moin
16 2012-11-09T10:50:18 *** greg_f
17 2012-11-09T13:26:27 <Marenz> hi
18 2012-11-09T13:37:33 *** dave_largo
19 2012-11-09T13:43:37 <sunu> moin
20 2012-11-09T14:02:10 <sunu> ThomasWaldmann: Tested logging on gae with fileConfig() , dictConfig() . GAE logs act weird all the time I manipulate the logging format no matter what method I use. So what should I do next ?
21 2012-11-09T14:59:47 <ThomasWaldmann> sunu: find out whether this is a bug or somehow documented / to be expected
22 2012-11-09T15:00:30 <Marenz> ThomasWaldmann, my idea with having a git storage backend was, that people can clone a wiki to their local computer, do changes and push them or do pull requests, similar to github
23 2012-11-09T15:00:51 <Marenz> Mayeb this could be implemented on top of the storage layer, but I guess that would be more difficult
24 2012-11-09T15:01:33 <ThomasWaldmann> it's not easy in any way
25 2012-11-09T15:02:06 <ThomasWaldmann> if one would do it in backend, it would only work in that backend (see why we killed hg storage)
26 2012-11-09T15:02:22 <ThomasWaldmann> but in any case, you need ui support
27 2012-11-09T15:02:56 <Marenz> yes
28 2012-11-09T15:03:12 <ThomasWaldmann> and it is not just "git-like", but rather "multi-git-like"
29 2012-11-09T15:03:21 <Marenz> as in, github like ;)
30 2012-11-09T15:09:13 <ThomasWaldmann> 1 repo per item, 1 head per wiki user
31 2012-11-09T15:09:56 <Marenz> per item? why not per wiki? (I can also just continue reading the etherpad if that answers this question)
32 2012-11-09T15:09:59 <ThomasWaldmann> see that etherpad i pointed you to. from there it gets a bit complicated towards UI.
33 2012-11-09T15:11:11 <ThomasWaldmann> wiki items are more individual things than sourcecode files
34 2012-11-09T15:13:18 <ThomasWaldmann> breton: ^^
35 2012-11-09T15:15:42 <ThomasWaldmann> also you have to consider, that the typical scenario for a DVCS is 1 user editing file(s). files have arbitrary content and little and quite limited metadata
36 2012-11-09T15:16:28 <ThomasWaldmann> moin1 need multiple users, editing items with rich metadata.
37 2012-11-09T15:16:34 <ThomasWaldmann> ehrm, moin2
38 2012-11-09T15:18:48 *** xiaq
39 2012-11-09T15:20:57 <Marenz> I know too little of moin2's inner workings to say something useful now ;)
40 2012-11-09T15:21:05 <ThomasWaldmann> (sometimes there is also the vague idea that "files" in such a backend repo storage could be somehow like repo/FrontPage and editable with an editor, but that is not possible due to these limitations)
41 2012-11-09T15:21:43 <Marenz> That was actually my idea yes. I didn't know that there is so much metadata to take care of
42 2012-11-09T15:21:57 <Marenz> part of the idea at least
43 2012-11-09T15:22:05 *** RogerHaase
44 2012-11-09T15:23:03 <ThomasWaldmann> http://moin-20.readthedocs.org/en/latest/devel/development.html#storage there are a few words about it. the lower 2 layers are very simple.
45 2012-11-09T15:24:28 *** xiaq
46 2012-11-09T15:24:33 <ThomasWaldmann> filenames need to be ascii minus the usual special characters. in moin 1.x we used the pagename and encoded it in some special way.
47 2012-11-09T15:25:31 <ThomasWaldmann> so stuff like FrontPage really was FrontPage in the fs. but if you had chinese pagenames, it was just something like (xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) with x being a hex digit
48 2012-11-09T15:27:03 <ThomasWaldmann> also, long pagenames made long fs filenames, so you could reach a limit rather soon
49 2012-11-09T15:27:08 <Marenz> Okay. Though there are fs out there that would support unicode names
50 2012-11-09T15:27:29 <Marenz> but I guess that kind of dependency is not exactly desired
51 2012-11-09T15:27:40 <ThomasWaldmann> thus, in moin2, we use UUIDs to identify objects. they are always ascii, same length. so no problem.
52 2012-11-09T15:28:12 <Marenz> so the 'name' of an object is always the UUID and the actual title is saved in the metadata?
53 2012-11-09T15:28:15 <ThomasWaldmann> at least as long as you don't try working manually in the storage data
54 2012-11-09T15:28:27 <Marenz> that is actually similar to how git stores stuff internally
55 2012-11-09T15:28:33 <Marenz> havnig the SHA hash value
56 2012-11-09T15:28:56 <Marenz> and a tree object that has the names, types and permissions of the objects
57 2012-11-09T15:29:07 <ThomasWaldmann> yes, we don't use the hash, but similar idea
58 2012-11-09T15:29:35 <ThomasWaldmann> the name is just one of potentially many metadata entries of a revision
59 2012-11-09T15:30:06 <ThomasWaldmann> and in the namespaces branch, there can be multiple names for one revision
60 2012-11-09T15:36:05 <ThomasWaldmann> Marenz: btw, did you install moin2? it's rather easy and well documented.
61 2012-11-09T15:36:18 <Marenz> No, I only read stuff so far
62 2012-11-09T15:36:43 *** xiaq
63 2012-11-09T15:36:51 *** xiaq
64 2012-11-09T15:37:01 <ThomasWaldmann> you can also have a look on test.moinmo.in (but note that this is not always the latest version)
65 2012-11-09T16:04:44 *** dwcramer
66 2012-11-09T17:41:12 <dreimark> Marenz: if you just want a fork of a m1 wiki with attachments, you can look at http://pypi.python.org/pypi/wiki-xmlrpc-extensions/0.2
67 2012-11-09T17:41:31 <dreimark> ForkWikiContent makes that, but it did not merge
68 2012-11-09T17:42:14 <Marenz> dreimark, well, I would like the modular storage, so m2 is more suited
69 2012-11-09T17:42:28 <Marenz> but I think my idea just won't work well with moin in general
70 2012-11-09T17:42:46 <Marenz> With the metadata especially
71 2012-11-09T17:51:20 <dreimark> in m2 you can serialize and deserialize all content
72 2012-11-09T17:52:20 <dreimark> if there would be only text items, then in the middle of that process the data could go into a repository
73 2012-11-09T17:53:26 <dreimark> it can be less effort for doing a valid merge on that data
74 2012-11-09T17:55:52 <dreimark> http://hg.moinmo.in/moin/2.0/file/553bf177019b/MoinMoin/script/maint/serialization.py
75 2012-11-09T17:56:12 <dreimark> Marenz: ^
76 2012-11-09T18:01:34 <Marenz> I certainly see advantages in having metadata, no doubt
77 2012-11-09T18:02:41 <Marenz> But it doesn't fit well with the idea of being able to clone a wiki using git, modify things and push it back to the server.. as an example
78 2012-11-09T18:02:43 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: is load working for you?
79 2012-11-09T18:04:34 <dreimark> no not easily. you can serialize an item with its meta data into a file and store that object by a repository
80 2012-11-09T18:05:51 <dreimark> but currently the serialize tool stores the whole backend into a file
81 2012-11-09T18:07:23 <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: it works just figured that one has to rebuild the index.
82 2012-11-09T18:08:17 *** greg_f
83 2012-11-09T18:10:25 <dreimark> if a serialized item needs to become merged it needs a special tool, which knows what meta and data is
84 2012-11-09T18:11:16 <dreimark> htg bbl
85 2012-11-09T18:27:34 *** greg_f
86 2012-11-09T18:41:37 *** MattMaker
87 2012-11-09T18:45:38 *** greg_f
88 2012-11-09T18:47:13 *** spy
89 2012-11-09T20:33:49 <dreimark> re
90 2012-11-09T21:02:19 <breton> Marenz: now it's called wiki synchronization. Theoretically, it will be possible, when that synchronization is coded, it will just require some kind of middleware.
91 2012-11-09T21:11:15 <breton> Marenz: using dvcs as storage directly is difficult, because a lot of meta information needs to be stored, such as tags, transclusions, contenttype, name etc.
92 2012-11-09T21:12:51 <Marenz> well, if you don't desire the flexibility of using any backend, you could use git as a databass. it has native objects to do all these things. Then again, it is all filebased.
93 2012-11-09T21:15:12 <breton> it should be possible to do, but it's not possible now. Now a lot of things are tied to indexing middleware. Though again - how do you suggest to store tags and contenttype?
94 2012-11-09T21:18:44 <Marenz> I don't have concrete ideas
95 2012-11-09T21:18:54 <Marenz> I guess it could be made working..
96 2012-11-09T21:19:10 <Marenz> but we don't need to force that into something that wasn't made for it
97 2012-11-09T22:03:58 *** moin5
98 2012-11-09T22:04:16 <moin5> hi, I have one question, I would appreciate it much if someone would help me. Does moin2 supports image align tag, I can't find any information. {{imagename|alight="right"}} doesn't works for me
99 2012-11-09T22:05:00 <moin5> {{imagename| align ="right"}}
100 2012-11-09T22:14:05 <ThomasWaldmann> and it is ||
101 2012-11-09T22:17:34 <ThomasWaldmann> moin5: there is something broken / different than before, see http://test.moinmo.in/HelpOnImages
102 2012-11-09T22:22:52 *** dave_largo
103 2012-11-09T22:59:19 <RogerHaase> moin5: https://bitbucket.org/thomaswaldmann/moin-2.0/issue/275/cannot-insert-small-image-into-paragraph - this bug may be the problem
104 2012-11-09T23:04:33 *** RogerHaase
105 2012-11-09T23:18:03 <dreimark> gn
106 2012-11-09T23:35:58 *** dwcramer
107 2012-11-09T23:51:26 *** moin5
108
