1 2013-04-14T00:08:18 *** desophos
2 2013-04-14T01:35:18 *** desophos
3 2013-04-14T02:12:28 *** desophos
4 2013-04-14T03:08:07 *** dwcramer
5 2013-04-14T04:12:11 *** sharky93
6 2013-04-14T04:24:12 *** dwcramer
7 2013-04-14T04:35:28 <sharky93> ThomasWaldmann, please added a reply to your comments, added new patch set, please review https://codereview.appspot.com/8660044/
8 2013-04-14T04:36:30 <sharky93> ThomasWaldmann, please review this too https://codereview.appspot.com/8717045/ (#340)
9 2013-04-14T04:37:15 <sharky93> ^^ * I added a reply to your comments
10 2013-04-14T05:00:30 *** dwcramer
11 2013-04-14T05:07:54 *** RogerHaase
12 2013-04-14T05:11:26 *** RogerHaase
13 2013-04-14T06:23:43 *** sharky93
14 2013-04-14T06:25:03 *** sharky93
15 2013-04-14T06:30:10 *** ducky
16 2013-04-14T06:31:05 *** sharky93
17 2013-04-14T06:35:06 *** ducky
18 2013-04-14T06:35:17 *** ducky
19 2013-04-14T06:43:26 *** ronny
20 2013-04-14T07:00:59 *** sharky93
21 2013-04-14T07:01:00 *** ducky
22 2013-04-14T07:05:37 *** sharky93
23 2013-04-14T07:33:51 *** sharky93
24 2013-04-14T07:38:45 *** ashutosh1461
25 2013-04-14T07:49:53 *** ashutosh1461
26 2013-04-14T07:50:17 *** ashutosh1461
27 2013-04-14T08:29:02 *** sharky93
28 2013-04-14T08:36:09 *** macobo
29 2013-04-14T09:00:22 *** sharky93
30 2013-04-14T09:48:21 *** sharky93
31 2013-04-14T09:49:10 *** sharky93
32 2013-04-14T11:01:06 <ashutosh1461> moin everyone :)
33 2013-04-14T11:21:00 *** rihnapstor
34 2013-04-14T11:23:22 *** djadmin
35 2013-04-14T11:24:51 <djadmin> I wanted to discuss a project idea. Whom shall i approach or shall i directly add it on the InitialProjectIdeas page of Moinmo
36 2013-04-14T11:24:53 <djadmin> ?
37 2013-04-14T11:33:45 *** ana-balica_
38 2013-04-14T11:43:26 *** djadmin
39 2013-04-14T11:44:42 *** djadmin
40 2013-04-14T11:57:11 *** djadmin
41 2013-04-14T11:57:34 *** djadmin
42 2013-04-14T12:02:09 *** djadmin
43 2013-04-14T12:32:28 <dreimark> no patience
44 2013-04-14T12:43:42 *** rihnapstor
45 2013-04-14T12:44:07 *** rihnapstor
46 2013-04-14T12:49:39 *** spy
47 2013-04-14T12:49:39 *** spy
48 2013-04-14T12:51:59 *** rihnapstor
49 2013-04-14T12:54:36 <ThomasWaldmann> moin
50 2013-04-14T12:59:04 <dreimark> views sometimes got to much functional code which is there not easy to cover by tests
51 2013-04-14T13:05:01 *** djadmin
52 2013-04-14T13:06:14 <ThomasWaldmann> hi djadmin
53 2013-04-14T13:06:34 <djadmin> hello ThomasWaldmann
54 2013-04-14T13:06:39 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, if you post specific information and wait for the answer, it'll be faster. :)
55 2013-04-14T13:12:26 *** ana-balica_
56 2013-04-14T13:12:38 <sharky93> ThomasWaldmann, please review https://codereview.appspot.com/8717045/
57 2013-04-14T13:13:09 <dreimark> hi djadmin seen you many times joining in and out
58 2013-04-14T13:13:33 <djadmin> dreimark because of the bad connection
59 2013-04-14T13:13:45 <dreimark> ah, ok
60 2013-04-14T13:14:22 <djadmin> btw, could you tell me one thing. are there any mentors finalized for the gsoc whom i can discussed ideas with?
61 2013-04-14T13:15:07 <dreimark> we finalize and organize us after we have the proposals
62 2013-04-14T13:15:23 <dreimark> and we always mentor all students together
63 2013-04-14T13:15:46 <dreimark> but one of us will be your responsible mentor
64 2013-04-14T13:15:58 <dreimark> (in general)
65 2013-04-14T13:16:54 <dreimark> you can have a acl protected page for discussing your project
66 2013-04-14T13:17:06 <djadmin> alright !
67 2013-04-14T13:17:31 <djadmin> I'll create one
68 2013-04-14T13:19:45 *** greg_f
69 2013-04-14T13:22:58 <sharky93> ThomasWaldmann, please review https://codereview.appspot.com/8660044/ added replies to your comment
70 2013-04-14T13:25:23 *** dwcramer
71 2013-04-14T13:31:59 *** dwcramer
72 2013-04-14T13:33:49 <ashutosh1461> moin ThomasWaldmann
73 2013-04-14T13:34:22 <dreimark> "Error: AssertionError; please report!" first time I got this with CR
74 2013-04-14T13:36:58 <ashutosh1461> ThomasWaldmann, i checked all the views, https://codereview.appspot.com/8540045/ and in doing so i found out that the current lookup view is also not written to support multiple names.
75 2013-04-14T13:37:57 <ashutosh1461> Here is a patch fixing that, please review this too, https://codereview.appspot.com/8753043/
76 2013-04-14T13:47:54 <ThomasWaldmann> hi ashutosh1461 - ok, I'll have a look...
77 2013-04-14T13:50:00 <sharky93> ThomasWaldmann, in relation to your first comment here https://codereview.appspot.com/8717045/diff/25001/MoinMoin/converter/html_out.py
78 2013-04-14T13:50:26 <sharky93> is it not a special case that arises only during testing ?, href being "unicode" ..
79 2013-04-14T13:51:29 <sharky93> IMHO it always would be an Iri object ?
80 2013-04-14T13:54:27 *** RogerHaase
81 2013-04-14T13:59:58 <ThomasWaldmann> sharky93: tests should reflect reality
82 2013-04-14T14:06:57 <RogerHaase> ThomasWaldmann: I don't understand why we would want both "width=100,height=100 " and "&w=10,&h=100" for resizing images rather than have html_out determine the best way to do it. Having 2 ways seems hard to explain to an end user.
83 2013-04-14T14:10:00 <ThomasWaldmann> the params in the z for [[x|y|z]] or {{x|y|z}} are for general use and the user tells by using the appropriate markup where they should go to
84 2013-04-14T14:10:25 <ThomasWaldmann> so, it is not just about width and height of images
85 2013-04-14T14:15:12 <RogerHaase> ThomasWaldmann: so we must explain to an end user that &w creates a query string for server side resizing and is used for png, jpg, gif, and width is used for most other transclusions that use client side sizing?
86 2013-04-14T14:15:58 <ThomasWaldmann> well, looks like
87 2013-04-14T14:16:12 <ThomasWaldmann> (i see what you mean, but the user needs to know that anyway)
88 2013-04-14T14:16:47 <ThomasWaldmann> e.g. class=foo will work, &class=foo will not (class like in html)
89 2013-04-14T14:17:31 <sharky93> ThomasWaldmann: supposing in a case the user enters "width=100" ignoring the warning, you would not want that going as a qs to the server directly
90 2013-04-14T14:17:52 <sharky93> these things could relate to exposing server side vulnerabilities ?
91 2013-04-14T14:17:53 <ThomasWaldmann> and it is not only dependent on the type of the object, but also where it comes from
92 2013-04-14T14:18:14 <sharky93> anyway you would have to parse what you are sending to the server ?
93 2013-04-14T14:18:21 <ThomasWaldmann> if a remote url is moin, server side scaling will work. if it is not moin, it will not work.
94 2013-04-14T14:18:31 <ThomasWaldmann> moin2*
95 2013-04-14T14:19:58 <ThomasWaldmann> i don't think we can foresee all the cases and in general I am rather against magic, because it might make behaviour even more unexplainable
96 2013-04-14T14:20:17 <ThomasWaldmann> if there is a rule, that applies sometimes, but sometimes, magic kicks in and does it differently
97 2013-04-14T14:20:28 <RogerHaase> ThomasWaldmann: hmm, how would you determine if a remote server is moin? If transclusion is from a remote server I think html_out should never send a query string
98 2013-04-14T14:20:54 <ThomasWaldmann> i would not determine that
99 2013-04-14T14:21:21 <ThomasWaldmann> if a user knows, he can use the appropriate markup to give qs args
100 2013-04-14T14:23:13 <ashutosh1461> ThomasWaldmann, replied to your comment, https://codereview.appspot.com/8753043/
101 2013-04-14T14:23:42 *** rihnapstor
102 2013-04-14T14:25:15 <RogerHaase> I yield that point to you, but doing that would be so rare that it is a small point - then you have to explain that passing &w works only for moin servers and tell the user how to tell a moin server from other servers
103 2013-04-14T14:30:05 <ThomasWaldmann> well, the same wiki is moin. for other wikis/sites you either have to know, to try or to use client-side.
104 2013-04-14T14:32:05 <ThomasWaldmann> i already got some question for moin 1.9 about params usage and people just badly used (not used) the args, because they didn't know the difference between &name= and name=
105 2013-04-14T14:32:40 <ThomasWaldmann> so we'll have to explain that in the docs in any case, not just for images
106 2013-04-14T14:32:54 <sharky93> I feel monitoring the querystring is necessary, we should not allow the user to put in anything. We may be sure that a fixed set of things work.. but what is the point in not taking the safer side.
107 2013-04-14T14:33:24 <ThomasWaldmann> nope
108 2013-04-14T14:33:33 <ThomasWaldmann> use is free to put in anything there
109 2013-04-14T14:33:55 <ThomasWaldmann> we can't validate it, because we can't know the target url's requirements for the qs
110 2013-04-14T14:34:46 <ThomasWaldmann> for the tag attrs, we could only let through the stuff that is valid for the respecitve tag, though
111 2013-04-14T14:36:11 <RogerHaase> if user knows the query string, he can do {{myimage.png?w=100}} rather than {{myimage.png||&w=100}}
112 2013-04-14T14:36:51 <ThomasWaldmann> no, that won't work (IIRC)
113 2013-04-14T14:37:14 <ThomasWaldmann> it'll make an itemname from that, including the (escaped) ?
114 2013-04-14T14:37:33 *** rihnapstor
115 2013-04-14T14:37:46 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, sorry, i have to go....
116 2013-04-14T14:50:15 <sunu> moin :)
117 2013-04-14T14:50:23 *** rihnapstor
118 2013-04-14T14:52:11 *** djadmin
119 2013-04-14T14:57:21 <ashutosh1461> ThomasWaldmann, please check https://codereview.appspot.com/8753043/ , replied to your comment.
120 2013-04-14T15:46:37 *** alexanderd
121 2013-04-14T15:59:44 <alexanderd> hi, i asked if i could work on issue 109 and was told to show up here: https://bitbucket.org/thomaswaldmann/moin-2.0/issue/109/similar-view-always-shown-on-item-create
122 2013-04-14T16:00:36 <alexanderd> i don't have a lot of python experience yet (mostly java), but the problem looks simple enough to "dip my toes" into moin development
123 2013-04-14T16:09:57 *** djadmin
124 2013-04-14T16:20:15 *** alexanderd
125 2013-04-14T16:23:25 *** dwcramer
126 2013-04-14T16:23:36 *** vaishak_
127 2013-04-14T16:33:01 *** ana-balica
128 2013-04-14T16:36:26 *** dwcramer
129 2013-04-14T16:37:01 *** dwcramer
130 2013-04-14T16:42:36 *** rihnapstor
131 2013-04-14T17:10:09 *** greg_f
132 2013-04-14T17:12:47 *** dwcramer
133 2013-04-14T17:44:43 *** adietrich
134 2013-04-14T17:51:48 *** rihnapstor
135 2013-04-14T17:53:02 *** rihnapstor
136 2013-04-14T17:53:02 *** rihnapstor
137 2013-04-14T17:54:31 *** adietrich
138 2013-04-14T18:07:43 *** desophos
139 2013-04-14T18:13:27 *** djadmin
140 2013-04-14T18:30:08 *** adietrich
141 2013-04-14T18:46:49 *** adietrich
142 2013-04-14T18:57:06 *** adietrich
143 2013-04-14T19:02:10 *** adietrich
144 2013-04-14T19:06:44 <ThomasWaldmann> hi adietrich
145 2013-04-14T19:07:37 <adietrich> hi!
146 2013-04-14T19:09:49 <adietrich> so i was looking at https://bitbucket.org/thomaswaldmann/moin-2.0/issue/109/similar-view-always-shown-on-item-create
147 2013-04-14T19:12:23 <adietrich> seems like /+similar_names already has the necessary search, it just needs to be used by NonExistent items
148 2013-04-14T19:20:47 <ashutosh1461> ThomasWaldmann, is this fine https://codereview.appspot.com/8540045/ ?
149 2013-04-14T19:27:18 <ThomasWaldmann> adietrich: yeah
150 2013-04-14T19:28:42 <ThomasWaldmann> adietrich: btw, i recently analysed some high load condition on our (moin 1.9) wiki server. one reason was bots visiting urls of nonexistent pages and triggering expensive "similar pages" searches.
151 2013-04-14T19:39:18 <adietrich> ok
152 2013-04-14T19:39:28 *** ana-balica
153 2013-04-14T19:41:32 <adietrich> i haven't looked at the old implementation yet, is it the same?
154 2013-04-14T19:49:27 <adietrich> but if it is, you don't want to use it for 2.0?
155 2013-04-14T20:01:34 <dreimark> we need it but we have to find a way to exclude bots
156 2013-04-14T20:19:09 <ThomasWaldmann> adietrich: no, moin 1.x is very different from moin2
157 2013-04-14T20:20:10 <ThomasWaldmann> i guess we need some more POSTs, so that expensive stuff is not triggered by simple URL GET requests
158 2013-04-14T20:22:10 <adietrich> in the case of new pages, it will usually be a GET though, right? at least i normally link to a non-existing page or just type its url in
159 2013-04-14T20:23:00 <ThomasWaldmann> yup, but then there follow multiple "dialogues" (views) with the user
160 2013-04-14T20:24:14 <adietrich> right, but in 1.9 the suggestions for existing pages show up immediately on the "missing" page, are you thinking of changing that?
161 2013-04-14T20:24:20 <ThomasWaldmann> yes
162 2013-04-14T20:24:26 <adietrich> ah
163 2013-04-14T20:25:27 <adietrich> as a user i think i'd prefer the existing way, seems more convenient
164 2013-04-14T20:26:01 <adietrich> which would mean either speeding up/simplifying the search or skipping it when a bot comes visiting
165 2013-04-14T20:26:16 <ThomasWaldmann> sure, but as a user you also want a responsive wiki, that's talking to YOU and not dozends of bots crawlings expensive to compute views
166 2013-04-14T20:26:26 <adietrich> of course
167 2013-04-14T20:27:02 <ThomasWaldmann> and there is no safe way to detect bots.
168 2013-04-14T20:27:22 <ashutosh1461> ThomasWaldmann, regarding with https://bitbucket.org/thomaswaldmann/moin-2.0/issue/361/ , where should we fix the issue?
169 2013-04-14T20:28:02 *** rihnapstor
170 2013-04-14T20:29:02 <ThomasWaldmann> ashutosh1461: sounds like the rename highlevel code is buggy
171 2013-04-14T20:29:08 <adietrich> i was going to ask: do you have bot access logs available? maybe there are patterns, it can't hurt to look
172 2013-04-14T20:29:35 <sharky93> ThomasWaldmann, is it okay if the line :21 stays that way @ https://codereview.appspot.com/8660044/diff/34001/MoinMoin/converter/_tests/test_image.py
173 2013-04-14T20:29:52 <ThomasWaldmann> from time to time i look into the logs. some bots have fake user agents and distributed ips.
174 2013-04-14T20:29:52 <adietrich> but i'd rather take a look at the search instead. right now it seems very regex-heavy, maybe there's some potential for optimzation
175 2013-04-14T20:32:00 <ashutosh1461> ThomasWaldmann, actually what happens that while renaming we inherit the meta from the previous revision, so some fields have to be cleared out before doing the operation, like comment being the one.
176 2013-04-14T20:33:30 <ThomasWaldmann> adietrich: in moin2 we use whoosh for all lookups / searches
177 2013-04-14T20:33:49 <ThomasWaldmann> but doing complex regex stuff might be beyond it
178 2013-04-14T20:34:38 <ashutosh1461> Also, i replied to your comment here, https://codereview.appspot.com/8753043/ please take a look.
179 2013-04-14T20:36:50 <adietrich> no, sorry, the regex is used only once one the item name it seems
180 2013-04-14T20:37:23 <adietrich> but then it looks like it iterates over all item names and searches with startswith/endswith
181 2013-04-14T20:41:31 <adietrich> and then there's a call to difflib
182 2013-04-14T20:45:39 <adietrich> or i'm totally overlooking something
183 2013-04-14T20:55:29 <adietrich> just in general: is it already decided to not have similar names show up on the 404 page? in that case, looking into search performance might not be very urgent
184 2013-04-14T20:55:54 *** gamer_
185 2013-04-14T20:56:48 <adietrich> as a sidenote, right now you have to click through three screens before you can start writing a new page, that seems a bit much
186 2013-04-14T20:57:30 <RogerHaase> ThomasWaldmann: sharky93: continuation of transclusion width/height discussion: http://etherpad.osuosl.org/Z4p4mmXRqH
187 2013-04-14T20:57:54 *** rubocoptero
188 2013-04-14T21:18:10 <dreimark> RogerHaase: btw. you can give a pad a name e.g. moin2-transclusion by just adding it to the url
189 2013-04-14T21:18:21 <dreimark> (just a note)
190 2013-04-14T21:26:46 <RogerHaase> thanks, did not know that
191 2013-04-14T21:29:43 <dreimark> RogerHaase: we have also alt as attribute
192 2013-04-14T21:30:09 <dreimark> besides the other keywords it is after the first |
193 2013-04-14T21:32:26 <dreimark> We have also much attributes, e.g. border, longdesc
194 2013-04-14T21:32:41 <dreimark> s/much/some/
195 2013-04-14T21:33:01 <dreimark> we currently don't support
196 2013-04-14T21:34:21 <RogerHaase> dreimark: those are the things you meant in issue 7?
197 2013-04-14T21:35:05 <adietrich> ok, i'll check in later again about the name search, or is there a more straightforward issue that i could work on for a start?
198 2013-04-14T21:37:40 <dreimark> at that time i thought only on width and height but by looking at the query syntax in the ep it is a question if we just should suppor more
199 2013-04-14T21:39:47 <dreimark> i am currently undecided if some of these possible parameters should have a default in meta
200 2013-04-14T21:40:56 <dreimark> because if an image is to big you could define height and width in meta and everywhere you added it you have not to set explicity the same values
201 2013-04-14T21:41:49 <RogerHaase> yes, that could be useful
202 2013-04-14T21:43:21 *** adietrich
203 2013-04-14T21:45:01 <dreimark> if one makes a gallery and has for each file an item with defaults e.g. long description, alt, width, height etc.
204 2013-04-14T21:46:06 <dreimark> image can have a render_view which shows a caption etc.
205 2013-04-14T21:47:05 <dreimark> with the content view it could be used without the caption
206 2013-04-14T21:47:45 <dreimark> so we are back on solving to get different renderings
207 2013-04-14T21:50:41 <sharky93> http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_img.asp has a list of attributes but many like border, longdesc are deprecated now.
208 2013-04-14T21:50:46 <sharky93> dreimark, ^
209 2013-04-14T21:54:55 <dreimark> simplified
210 2013-04-14T21:54:55 *** gamer_
211 2013-04-14T21:55:20 <dreimark> gn
212 2013-04-14T21:57:15 *** ashutosh1461
213 2013-04-14T22:12:53 *** RogerHaase
214 2013-04-14T22:14:24 *** desophos
215 2013-04-14T22:18:17 <sharky93> ThomasWaldmann, please review https://codereview.appspot.com/8660044/ IMHO, final version for #360, also please try to comment on the etherpad :) continuing the discussion, maybe finalizing it.
216 2013-04-14T22:21:39 * sharky93 yawns
217 2013-04-14T22:21:55 <sharky93> gn
218 2013-04-14T22:34:26 *** sharky93
219 2013-04-14T22:47:54 *** spy_
220 2013-04-14T23:03:47 *** macobo
221 2013-04-14T23:06:26 *** ronny
222
