1 ntley@Ottawa-HSE-ppp4073450.sympatico.ca] has joined #moin
   2 15:16 < abentley> Hi all.  I'm running Debian, and their recent moin update means my configuration's invalid.  Can anyone point me at instructions for upgrading?  I think I had 1.2 before.
   3 15:17 < xorAxAx> abentley: doesnt README.debian point to the correct pages? if not, file a bug please
   4 15:18 < nir> read README.*
   5 15:18 < xorAxAx> abentley: in any case, you will need to read HelpOnConfiguration or look at the sample configs
   6 15:18 < abentley> Okie.
   7 15:19 < nir> in short you will have to copy the new config as explained in the install instructions
   8 15:19 < nir> and change the needed options
   9 15:19 < nir> and migrate the data dir with only 11 scripts :)
  10 15:23 < nir> good night
  11 15:23 < starshine> abentley: fancy meeting you here
  12 15:23 < xorAxAx> gn nir
  13 15:23 < starshine> there are a set of migration scripts for 1.2-> 1.3 transition, described heavily in upstream README.migration
  14 15:25 < starshine> .o( I *know* the text I filed with debian maint warned them they'd need postinstall to handle this.
  15 15:26 < abentley> Good grief.
  16 15:26 < starshine> nn nir
  17 15:26 < abentley> These migration instructions are pretty involved.
  18 15:26 < starshine> the result of the change is that the "built in" docs are kept seperate of the users' new pages
  19 15:26 < starshine> makes it easy to share them on a moin farm
  20 15:27 < nir> and make it easy to upgrade
  21 15:27 < starshine> and backups can be smarter
  22 15:27 < nir> simply replace the underlay dir
  23 15:27 < nir> keep underlay locked from changes
  24 15:28 < xorAxAx> nir: MEEP, wrong
  25 15:28  * starshine takes action item to see what deb's package does and doesn't do, so I can file a better report
  26 15:28 < xorAxAx> nir: "What are ACLs?" would have been the right question
  27 15:28 < nir> no
  28 15:28 < abentley> They include README.migration.bz
  29 15:28 < starshine> and I have this 1.2.x data tree here to test with..
  30 15:29 < xorAxAx> nir: for the last point
  31 15:29 < starshine> ideally they should have put up a nice popup box warning people they'd need to migrate.
  32 15:29 < nir> its does not help you that you have acl when your pages are mixed with 500 system pages in 10 languages
  33 15:29 < xorAxAx> nir: " keep underlay locked from changes"
  34 15:29 < nir> moin stuff should be out of your stuff
  35 15:29 < xorAxAx> nir: ACLs are doing that
  36 15:29 < starshine> nir: or when people have as freely edited help as anything else..
  37 15:33 < abentley> When they tell me to back up my MoinMoin directory, do they really mean they want to back up the already-upgraded /usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/MoinMoin ?
  38 15:33 < nir> no
  39 15:33 < nir> just your data dir
  40 15:33 < starshine> heh. they mean your wiki instance
  41 15:33 < nir> yea
  42 15:34 < abentley> they said  backup your MoinMoin/ directory (see sys.path.append at start of
  43 15:34 < abentley>    moin.cgi or standard location like /usr/lib/python2.x/site-packages)
  44 15:34 < nir> strange
  45 15:34 < xorAxAx> abentley: who is "they"?
  46 15:35 < nir> maybe if you want to go back to your old version
  47 15:35 < xorAxAx> abentley: are you talking about the install scripts or README.debian?
  48 15:35 < starshine> nir: actually, yes, standard migration directions do say to backup the code as one block, the data dir, and your config file
  49 15:35 < xorAxAx> yeah, right
  50 15:35 < nir> anyway, to migrate your old wiki, and test the new one, don't touch the old wiki at all
  51 15:35 < xorAxAx> and it makes sense because you backup before you continue migration
  52 15:36 < nir> don't install the new moin, just extract it somewhere
  53 15:36 < nir> then copy your data dir and migrate it
  54 15:36 < xorAxAx> but on debian, you trust your debs
  55 15:36 < nir> then config a new instance and test everything
  56 15:36 < xorAxAx> so you dont have to backup shared code
  57 15:37 < nir> only when everything is ok replace the old instance, and maybe install moin
  58 15:37 < abentley> nir: At this point, it's a bit late for that.
  59 15:38 < starshine> ok. code has been transited.  config file can be checked.  we just need to get the data dir fixed up.
  60 15:38 < abentley> I apt-get updated, and I got config-breaking changes, without any kind of warning or even a note.
  61 15:38 < xorAxAx> abentley: but this is not moinmoin issue
  62 15:38 < xorAxAx> abentley: i hope that you can understand that
  63 15:38 < starshine> *definitely* please file a debian bug on that
  64 15:38 < abentley> xorAxAx: I do.
  65 15:38 < starshine> I use debian myself though I use moin upstream code.  so I'll help as I can..
  66 15:39 -!- J-PGuerard [tylor@82.127.124.161] has quit ["Argl. Déconnecté| !"]
  67 15:39 < ThomasWaldmann> moin
  68 15:39 < nir> is there apt-undo? :-)
  69 15:40 < Fabi> moin tw
  70 15:40 < nir> moin
  71 15:41 < starshine> ThomasWaldmann: what are the bad side effects of running moin 1.3.4 across 1.2.4 data tree?
  72 15:41 < xorAxAx> starshine: it does not work at all
  73 15:41 < starshine> nir: with old deb package you can force-downgrade, but this is not ideal
  74 15:42 < starshine> xorAxAx: does not work and does no damage, right?
  75 15:42 < xorAxAx> starshine: i am not sure. at least moin should not attempt to delete or destroy data
  76 15:42 < ThomasWaldmann> abentley: it makes sense to backup the MoinMoin code dir, but only if you do it before installing new code into it
  77 15:42 < ThomasWaldmann> starshine: that nothing will work?
  78 15:43 < ThomasWaldmann> i didnt try if it does damage. i think it rather does not.
  79 15:44 < starshine> well if I grok abentley's condition here, he should file a Serious bug against the deb package, they upgraded the code and didn't have post-install adjust his wiki instance to work
  80 15:44 < starshine> if the omission caused it to hurt his tree, I'd say Grave.
  81 15:44 < ThomasWaldmann> that's not that easy
  82 15:45 < xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: rewriting the config file? sure.
  83 15:45 < xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: migrating data? less ...
  84 15:45 < xorAxAx> i think you can write a one-liner sed script to rewrite the config file :)
  85 15:45 < ThomasWaldmann> even migrating the data isnt easy
  86 15:46 < xorAxAx> yeah, as i said
  87 15:46 < nir> maybe we had to publish moin as MoinMoin2
  88 15:47 < ThomasWaldmann> twaldmann@thinkmo:/org/de.wikiwikiweb.moinmaster/bin$ grep 404 twistd.log |wc -l
  89 15:47 < ThomasWaldmann> 209
  90 15:47 < nir> so you can have both version running easily
  91 15:47 < ThomasWaldmann> nir: just wait some months :)
  92 15:47 < starshine> nir: ugh, I don't wanna hand copy 200ish wiki pages from one to another
  93 15:48 < starshine> even tiptoe through the mig scripts is better than *that*
  94 15:49 < Vito`> copying files by hand builds character
  95 15:49 < xorAxAx> nir: no, with stable interfaces
  96 15:49 < nir> we could support both old style config and new
  97 15:49 < xorAxAx> Vito`: yeah, without using globbing
  98 15:49 < nir> its not that hard
  99 15:51 < xorAxAx> DVB-P <g>
 100 15:51 < starshine> argh. I have to go.
 101 15:51 < xorAxAx> c u starshine
 102 15:51  * nir realy going now
 103 15:51 < xorAxAx> gn^2 nir
 104 15:51 < starshine> abentley: each migration script makes a copy of your tree, have plenty of space and watch the steps, you'll be fine.
 105 
 106 
 107 15:55 < abentley> ThomasWaldmann: Sorry, was filing bug.  It's too late for me, and probably too late for all Debian Moin users.
 108 15:56 < starshine_away> [not too late, unlikely data dir damage has been done. but I *will* check.]
 109 15:56  * starshine_away : gone
 110 15:56 < abentley> starshine_away: Too late in the sense that we've got broken wikis, not that we have data loss.
 111 
 112 16:19 < abentley> Is my data directory supposed to contain a data_dir directory?
 113 
 114 16:20 < xorAxAx> abentley: no, the ./data/ directory should be set in the data_dir option
 115 16:21 < abentley> Well, it is, but the error '"data_dir" does not exists at "/var/local/lib/ooswiki2/data"' isn't too clear.
 116 16:22 < xorAxAx> it just says that the data structures are broken
 117 16:22 < xorAxAx> did you migrate?
 118 16:22 < abentley> It should be more like 'data_dir /var/local/lib/ooswiki2/data does not exist'
 119 16:22 < abentley> xorAxAx: Yes.
 120 16:24 < xorAxAx> we dont have any native english speakers in the team :-)
 121 16:28 < abentley> Ah, well.  Being a native english speaker ain't all it's cracked up to be.
 122 16:48 < abentley> So my url prefix is '/oos'  When I try to get 'http://www.aaronbentley.com/oos/modern/css/common.css', this is interpreted as a wiki page.
 123 16:59 < abentley> Nevermind.
 124 17:01  * mhz BBL
 125 17:16 -!- abentley [abentley@Ottawa-HSE-ppp4073450.sympatico.ca] has left #moin [""Thanks for the tips""]
 126 ~