Description

Everything seems to work fine - and it also does - but from an accessibility's point of view (AccessibleMoin) this could be considered as a bug: Bulletless lists do have the same html markup as visual indentation. Or to quote the IBM Human Ability and Accessibility Centre (http://www-03.ibm.com/able/guidelines/web/webmarkup.html):

Use list elements (OL, UL, and DL) to properly convey lists of information. Do not use list elements for visual indentation because assistive technology will interpret and deliver information differently from what was intended. 

Often badly accessilbe sites do use <blockqoute> or <dl> markup to indent a paragraph. IBM Home Page Reader will read the paragraph then as a quote or a definition list. Moin uses <ul> to indent text into serveral levels. However - if you look at most common ways of usage in this wiki e.g. in discussions - creating a list is not really intended: only a paragraph should be indented more or less to structure a text visually like

Blablabla... -- UserA

I like it -- UserA

In this case: we have two lists with only one list emement at at thime. Would you call a list a list if you have only one item?? This means: Real indentation must be done by providing a css class with a certain padding/margin only - not by lists IMHO.

Steps to reproduce

  1. Go to HelpOnLists

  2. Check the html markup of the examples "indentation" and "bulletless list"
  3. Both concept aim a different purposes but have the same markup

Example

Component selection

Details

MoinMoin Version

OS and Version

Python Version

Server Setup

Server Details

Language you are using the wiki in (set in the browser/UserPreferences)

Workaround

Discussion

There are two ways to deal with that:

This "bug"-report is also a plead to use more logical markup like <code> <abbr> <ins> <del> <address> <blockqoute> <q>... and move away from a visual orientation only (like already done with <strong> and <em> instead of using <b> and <i>)

Indentation represents a discussion, which have a tree like structure. For example:

<div>
    Text...
    <div>
        Reply to text...
        <div>
            Replay 1 to reply...
        </div>
        <div>
            Reply 2 to replay
        </div> 
    </div>
</div>

Using CSS you can indent each div relative to its parent div. I don't know what a screen reader can grok from such structure. Using unordered lists is not much different from those divs and seems acceptable solution.

I suggest you go and find what is the best way to present tree like structures to screen readers, and how others are doing this.

Plan

Comment & Possible Solution

This has been discussed, and I have working code which fixes this by making the indented paragraphs PARAGRAPHS!

The solution is located at this bug: MoinMoinBugs/ParagraphBreaksBrokenWhenIndented.

The solution presented in MoinMoinBugs/ParagraphBreaksBrokenWhenIndented also solves broken table formatting when the table is indented. --VincentCordrey 2008-04-18 09:15:09


CategoryMoinMoinBug CategoryForMoin2

MoinMoin: MoinMoinBugs/DoNotUseListsForVisualIdentationOfText (last edited 2011-01-18 07:40:48 by ReimarBauer)