MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2005-12-04

2005-12-04T00:03:10  <ThomasWaldmann> yes, and this is why the admin has to set auto_create = True
2005-12-04T00:05:59  <lida> So the idea is to only document that it is stronly suggested to use user_autocreate=True when using http-auth but not to enforce it. I think that is fine.
2005-12-04T00:06:58  <lida> I think I first read vour "ever" as "never"...
2005-12-04T00:12:37  <ThomasWaldmann> right
2005-12-04T00:21:37  <lida> I added info on user_autocreate to HelpOnConfiguration on MoinMaster.
2005-12-04T00:26:12  *** lida has quit IRC
2005-12-04T00:30:48  <xorAxAx> php really sucks. i wonder why i didnt mind the pain when i was more active in that language a few years ago
2005-12-04T00:31:20  * xorAxAx detex: mainly bug activities in the last days
2005-12-04T00:34:17  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: the irc log importer stopped working
2005-12-04T00:34:33  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: on 27th of nov
2005-12-04T00:34:44  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: please fix it
2005-12-04T00:35:08  <ThomasWaldmann> i didnt change it
2005-12-04T00:35:21  <xorAxAx> so, does the cron job still run?
2005-12-04T00:35:28  <xorAxAx> if so, what does it output?
2005-12-04T00:36:28  <xorAxAx> oops, permissions issue again
2005-12-04T00:36:44  <xorAxAx> umm
2005-12-04T00:37:08  <xorAxAx> would an umask call in a wrapper solve it?
2005-12-04T00:40:24  <xorAxAx> ok, its running again
2005-12-04T02:21:24  *** Fabi has quit IRC
2005-12-04T11:59:04  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: i just looked into the test trace backs - some point to serious bugs in the converter
2005-12-04T12:01:52  <ThomasWaldmann> attach them to the guieditor bug page
2005-12-04T12:05:39  <xorAxAx> nah, you can check the make test output as well. look for all failures that are not just there because of whitespace/line no. issues
2005-12-04T12:06:38  * xorAxAx fixes wiki.py
2005-12-04T12:07:51  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: hah, i broke tla again. please fix it like you did it last time :)
2005-12-04T12:27:47  <ThomasWaldmann> try now
2005-12-04T12:28:28  <xorAxAx> works, thanks
2005-12-04T13:42:10  <ThomasWaldmann> moin lida
2005-12-04T13:42:34  <ThomasWaldmann> lida: i fixed it the same way while you worked on it :)
2005-12-04T13:44:06  <lida> ...that shows that I was on the right track ;-)
2005-12-04T13:44:35  <ThomasWaldmann> hopefully it doesnt break other stuff :)
2005-12-04T14:00:39  <ThomasWaldmann> lida: maybe you can move those autocreate infos from that subpage to some toplevel page (or even a help page on moinmaster)
2005-12-04T14:05:33  <lida> What about a HelpOnAuthentication page? I would start first in MoinMoin and move it MoinMaster when it is ready.
2005-12-04T14:07:15  <ThomasWaldmann> start it on master or it might be forgotten (one cant easily see where it comes from when looking at it in moinmoin wiki)
2005-12-04T14:09:10  <lida> Ok.
2005-12-04T14:11:26  <ThomasWaldmann> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpOnAuthentication i created the page and acls on it already
2005-12-04T14:11:44  <ThomasWaldmann> and linked it from HelpOnConfiguration
2005-12-04T14:12:32  <ThomasWaldmann> fsck
2005-12-04T14:12:43  <ThomasWaldmann> wrong wiki X)
2005-12-04T15:57:55  <ThomasWaldmann> lida: i started with the page. please review / extend it.
2005-12-04T17:33:23  <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: that converter test src looks strange
2005-12-04T17:37:21  <ThomasWaldmann> i am quite sure JuergenHermann didnt write it
2005-12-04T17:37:41  <ThomasWaldmann> those """"" also look strange
2005-12-04T17:43:47  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: i guess waldi did ;-)
2005-12-04T17:44:21  <ThomasWaldmann> and most of them are simply wrong
2005-12-04T17:44:25  <ThomasWaldmann> (now)
2005-12-04T17:45:27  *** lida has quit IRC
2005-12-04T17:46:18  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: i guess most simply test with ==. you should never do that with html
2005-12-04T17:46:38  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: you need to test semantics. e.g. parse it as xml and compare the dom or use xpath (like kensanata does)
2005-12-04T17:47:04  <xorAxAx> or use a simple htmllib plugin that checks internal state etc.
2005-12-04T17:47:21  <xorAxAx> --> its not easy to write good tests (ok, it is, after you have implemented a few nice methods)
2005-12-04T17:47:25  <ThomasWaldmann> i dont think i will invest the time needed to do that
2005-12-04T17:47:26  <xorAxAx> but its worth to do so
2005-12-04T17:48:08  <xorAxAx> there are some whitespace tests that just fail because of whitespace at the end. trim might help there
2005-12-04T18:50:11  * ThomasWaldmann thinks to make another beta later today
2005-12-04T19:41:47  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: your bug fix didnt fix the bug completly, test case added
2005-12-04T19:47:25  <ThomasWaldmann> what bug?
2005-12-04T19:53:56  <xorAxAx> the last one you edited
2005-12-04T20:22:09  <ThomasWaldmann> that was the css bug
2005-12-04T20:24:11  <xorAxAx> no, not at that time
2005-12-04T20:24:30  <xorAxAx> it was the format-pi leads to data destruction bug
2005-12-04T20:27:28  <ThomasWaldmann> you cant know what I edited last :)
2005-12-04T20:29:16  <xorAxAx> i am reading all bug mails :)
2005-12-04T20:32:37  * ThomasWaldmann talks of Vim :)
2005-12-04T20:33:10  * xorAxAx talks about bug reports
2005-12-04T20:40:21  * ThomasWaldmann thinks absolute references rule instead of making a quiz out of everything
2005-12-04T20:42:02  <ThomasWaldmann> and what's the problem with that "test case"?
2005-12-04T20:42:50  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: edit it with the gui editor and see how it breeaks :-)
2005-12-04T20:43:09  <xorAxAx> (as said on the bug page)
2005-12-04T20:43:40  <ThomasWaldmann> gui editor is not offered for me
2005-12-04T20:45:11  <xorAxAx> it was offered for me
2005-12-04T20:45:23  <xorAxAx> start with a plain editor, input #format, click gui editor ;-)
2005-12-04T20:45:32  <xorAxAx> i admit, not easy to solve
2005-12-04T20:45:41  <ThomasWaldmann> shit, fast kill bill 2 verpasst :)
2005-12-04T20:47:53  <xorAxAx> we could have a JS hack here
2005-12-04T20:48:05  * xorAxAx would not like it, though :)
2005-12-04T20:54:28  <ThomasWaldmann> if a user asks for trouble, he should get it :)
2005-12-04T20:58:11  <xorAxAx> in fact, the first user has to ask for trouble
2005-12-04T20:58:23  <xorAxAx> so its a quick check if somebody is good or evil
2005-12-04T21:02:48  <xorAxAx> ok, but there is still a gui edit button even when the page has been created already before
2005-12-04T21:03:14  <xorAxAx> the JS in the edit view should be init'ed like the one in the view-view is
2005-12-04T21:08:14  <nwp_> ThomasWaldmann: just saw your message re. patch, thanks
2005-12-04T21:10:50  <ThomasWaldmann> nwp_: would be great if we could have some working ldap code in moin
2005-12-04T21:11:12  <nwp_> well, what I have seems to work at the moment. but it's not pretty
2005-12-04T21:11:15  <ThomasWaldmann> either in MoinMoin.auth (when generic/configurable) or in contrib/ as sample for own work
2005-12-04T21:11:28  <xorAxAx> nwp_: it just needs to fit the 1.5 interface for auth
2005-12-04T21:12:05  <xorAxAx> having something that has proven its quality in a productive environment is enough to make it tidy afterwards (by us)
2005-12-04T21:12:53  <nwp_> I think I put it in FeatureRequests/AuthLDAP
2005-12-04T21:13:28  <nwp_> ah yes. It seems to have gained a load of helpful comments now.
2005-12-04T21:13:32  <nwp_> Which I will now read :-)
2005-12-04T21:15:12  <ThomasWaldmann> make sure you have latest patchlevel
2005-12-04T21:15:22  <nwp_> Reading it from archzoom
2005-12-04T21:15:53  <nwp_> arch is still in the sticking-pins-in-dolls category for me :-/
2005-12-04T21:16:15  <nwp_> I guess this will provide a good excuse to learn to use it properly :-)
2005-12-04T21:16:47  <nwp_> The returning extra value looks like it should do the job fine...
2005-12-04T21:17:14  <xorAxAx> arch is broken by design, realising that motivates just in case you like to dig into broken systems ;-)
2005-12-04T21:17:48  <nwp_> not sure I follow the second half of that
2005-12-04T21:19:00  <xorAxAx> if you dont like broken systems, you wont like to dig into them ;-)
2005-12-04T21:19:49  <ThomasWaldmann> nwp_: we might switch to hg soon :) when they have rename.
2005-12-04T21:21:15  <nwp_> One day there will be a sensible working VC system that does what you really want it to.
2005-12-04T21:21:43  <nwp_> If I'm lucky it will be in my lifetime :-/
2005-12-04T21:23:32  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe have a look at it. it's easier and faster than tla at least.
2005-12-04T21:23:49  <nwp_> Will do
2005-12-04T21:24:05  <xorAxAx> and its writen in .... PYTHON! :-)
2005-12-04T21:25:39  <nwp_> xorAxAx: I'm sorry, is that a recommendation? o:-)
2005-12-04T21:25:47  <xorAxAx> nwp_: yes!
2005-12-04T21:26:07  <xorAxAx> nwp_: imagine a VCS in perl - klunky, slow, insecure ...
2005-12-04T21:26:08  <xorAxAx> ;-)
2005-12-04T21:26:26  <xorAxAx> the command line of a regular call would look like line noise
2005-12-04T21:26:31  <nwp_> ThomasWaldmann: was it you pointing out Bugzilla LDAP code in FeatureRequests/AuthLDAP?
2005-12-04T21:26:44  <nwp_> mmmm, line noise... ;-)
2005-12-04T21:27:06  <xorAxAx> the project would claim to have lowered the LOC every week while increasing the no. of features
2005-12-04T21:27:52  <xorAxAx> it would be shipped in a tar and not a tgz because gzip could not compress it, because of the high entropy
2005-12-04T21:27:59  <nwp_> Easy to decrease LOC by jst writing everything on one long line...
2005-12-04T21:28:14  <xorAxAx> not in python ;-)
2005-12-04T21:28:35  <nwp_> xorAxAx: well, you could always use ACME::Bleach if you like whitespace...
2005-12-04T21:28:35  <xorAxAx> you need really to transform the logic if you want to express py programs in a single line
2005-12-04T21:28:42  <nwp_> but we should probably stop there
2005-12-04T21:28:57  <xorAxAx> :-)
2005-12-04T21:28:59  <nwp_> after all, this channel is logged. there'll be evidence...
2005-12-04T21:29:18  <ThomasWaldmann> nwp_: no, was not me
2005-12-04T21:29:18  <xorAxAx> that i made bad jokes about a bad language? :-)
2005-12-04T21:30:35  <nwp_> ThomasWaldmann: Ah. Then I can't ask you to explain what whoever-it-was is on about with mail names etc.
2005-12-04T21:31:04  <xorAxAx> is bugzilla written in python?
2005-12-04T21:31:14  <nwp_> I think they're probably missing the point that this should be auth and auth only... and if you want to look up mailname etc. then you should do it in some other module
2005-12-04T21:31:17  <xorAxAx> otherwise its not very useful to have it as a model IMHO
2005-12-04T21:31:35  <nwp_> I have no idea about bugzilla. I've always avoided it
2005-12-04T21:31:36  <xorAxAx> because LDAP is mostly interface-specific
2005-12-04T21:31:51  <xorAxAx> yeah, its not really a project with highest usability
2005-12-04T21:32:40  <nwp_> I do remember seeing what they were talking about re. ADS not allowing anon binds... saw that in the examples in the python-ldap docs. And thought "glad I don't have to worry about that then"
2005-12-04T21:32:58  <xorAxAx> but it is not a problem, is it?
2005-12-04T21:33:09  <xorAxAx> you can simply bind with the users' credentials
2005-12-04T21:33:17  <nwp_> but it would be fairly easy to add an option to do the search with an authenticated bind
2005-12-04T21:33:30  <nwp_> xorAxAx: no, you need to provide credentials in the config I think
2005-12-04T21:33:41  <xorAxAx> at least my code worked liek that when i wrote an LDAP wrapper module for AD in php
2005-12-04T21:33:56  <xorAxAx> i simply used the users' credentials ;-)
2005-12-04T21:34:14  <nwp_> you might not be using the same field as username that the ldap does
2005-12-04T21:34:24  <nwp_> not sure
2005-12-04T21:34:35  <xorAxAx> hmm, possible. that might restrict the potential field, yeah
2005-12-04T21:34:41  <xorAxAx> but the AD is very flexible
2005-12-04T21:34:51  <xorAxAx> at least the logon accepts many forms
2005-12-04T21:34:57  <xorAxAx> (and they are really creative at ms)
2005-12-04T21:34:58  <nwp_> and the individual users might not have permission to do the necessary search
2005-12-04T21:35:27  <xorAxAx> name@domain, domain/name, domain\name, \\domain\name, ...
2005-12-04T22:08:37  <ThomasWaldmann> any last words before beta5?
2005-12-04T22:26:09  <nwp_> "good luck"?
2005-12-04T22:26:38  <nwp_> oh, have you fixed the Location handling with mod_python yet?
2005-12-04T22:26:58  <nwp_> did I even upload a patch yet?
2005-12-04T22:27:58  <nwp_> ah, I submitted it as a debian bug but didn't put it anywhere on Moin wiki
2005-12-04T22:28:24  <nwp_> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=339543
2005-12-04T22:45:43  <ThomasWaldmann> nwp_: did you test this stuff, with different wiki locations?
2005-12-04T22:58:28  <ThomasWaldmann> nwp_: I committed your patch. If it doesn't work, I can't fix it anyway. :)
2005-12-04T22:58:39  <nwp_> yes... I can't run without it
2005-12-04T22:59:30  <nwp_> it was definitely broken before, so it can't be any worse :-P
2005-12-04T23:00:38  <nwp_> the options.get thing first made it crash, and trusting the script_name failed in lots of cases too, so...
2005-12-04T23:01:26  <ThomasWaldmann> ok, it is in b5
2005-12-04T23:01:39  <nwp_> what do you run with if not mod_python?
2005-12-04T23:03:25  <ThomasWaldmann> Twisted
2005-12-04T23:03:40  <nwp_> is it fast?
2005-12-04T23:04:42  <xorAxAx> no, slowest in fact
2005-12-04T23:04:56  <nwp_> any redeeming features then?
2005-12-04T23:05:00  <xorAxAx> fastest is standalone and mod_fastcgi
2005-12-04T23:05:21  <xorAxAx> depends - twisted is twisted and kinda big
2005-12-04T23:05:39  <xorAxAx> if you have other apps running under it
2005-12-04T23:05:51  <xorAxAx> or if you dont like apache
2005-12-04T23:06:01  <xorAxAx> and dont trust standalone. then its ok