2006-02-17T00:05:56 <xorAxAx> [PERIODIC ANNOUNCEMENT] Logs can be found on http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev
2006-02-17T14:26:18 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: there is a parser/formatter patch on the ML, can you review it?
2006-02-17T14:27:00 <ThomasWaldmann> later
2006-02-17T14:28:49 <xorAxAx> as long as you dont forget it :)
2006-02-17T14:39:19 <ThomasWaldmann> we have a wiki for such stuff
2006-02-17T16:23:51 <starshine> ThomasWaldmann: and sometimes it even responds :) we're surged again
2006-02-17T16:27:13 <xorAxAx> i dont believe him that the surge cases started when he integrated the code. that doesnt make any sense :)
2006-02-17T16:34:40 <starshine> doesn't fit. my site's been under ns and crawler attack before (we finally completed a configuration that shoots down the NS creeps) and my site doesn't melt down this way
2006-02-17T16:35:00 <starshine> although admitted if our pipe's ful it's close :)
2006-02-17T16:41:30 <starshine> patch 407 is first mention of surge suppression code. 006-01-29 00:13:25 GMT
2006-02-17T16:41:41 <starshine> *2006
2006-02-17T16:42:49 <starshine> 444 is the current one in my fetched tla tree
2006-02-17T16:43:34 <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: believe less
2006-02-17T16:43:57 <ThomasWaldmann> i've deactived sp now and restarted the stuff
2006-02-17T16:44:16 <starshine> \o/
2006-02-17T16:44:42 * starshine reaches MoinMoinEtymology page in record time for the week
2006-02-17T16:47:32 <ThomasWaldmann> that's because of the restart. it is fast after restarting, no matter if sp is on or off.
2006-02-17T17:07:19 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: maybe its the indexing code which gets into a loop?
2006-02-17T17:08:22 <ThomasWaldmann> why should it?
2006-02-17T17:09:59 <xorAxAx> umm, because lupy code is known to be a little erratic? :)
2006-02-17T17:10:12 <xorAxAx> but as long as we dont have any tracebacks, we cannot know
2006-02-17T17:14:39 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe look at the code instead of making wild guesses
2006-02-17T17:19:11 <xorAxAx> no, i wont
2006-02-17T17:19:23 <xorAxAx> as you havent look at it either. its quite much
2006-02-17T17:19:28 <xorAxAx> (incl. lupy etc.)
2006-02-17T17:19:42 <xorAxAx> but you can create a traceback next time it stalls
2006-02-17T17:20:21 <starshine> .o( can we have it self detect a stall and restart ?
2006-02-17T17:20:56 <starshine> stall detection would have been nice for the socket wedging problem I tripped over a long while back
2006-02-17T17:21:51 <xorAxAx> its not really stalling (that would be 0% cpu usage)
2006-02-17T17:22:14 <xorAxAx> its going to 100%, i.e. threads may be in an endless loop
2006-02-17T17:23:28 <ThomasWaldmann> is there a working method now to make a traceback?
2006-02-17T17:23:30 <starshine> hm then it'd be a little stuck to do something about it too :/
2006-02-17T17:23:51 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: yeah, with the posted gdb file and a python debug build
2006-02-17T17:24:01 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: that should work in any case
2006-02-17T17:24:04 <ThomasWaldmann> there is no python debug build yet
2006-02-17T17:24:14 <xorAxAx> umm, thats a matter of calling configure
2006-02-17T17:24:21 <xorAxAx> dont you like building python?
2006-02-17T17:24:25 <ThomasWaldmann> later...
2006-02-17T17:25:16 <xorAxAx> #python couldnt tell me why the other method didnt work
2006-02-17T17:46:56 <xorAxAx> for the record - the patch was submitted as a bug item
2006-02-17T17:47:06 <xorAxAx> (the one i was talking about earlier)
2006-02-17T17:48:09 <xorAxAx> at least one of the discussed issues is new since you/Fabi fiddled with the escape-kwargs
2006-02-17T17:48:21 <xorAxAx> --> we have new XSS issues
2006-02-17T17:48:30 <xorAxAx> --> fun
2006-02-17T17:50:08 <xorAxAx> ah, no, at least no. 4 cannot be exploited as XSS
2006-02-17T19:12:41 <xorAxAx> so we need a security check for tuples or lists to avoid strings in the superuser setting
2006-02-17T19:12:50 <xorAxAx> (why wasnt it called superusers ...)
2006-02-17T19:21:12 <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: the sample configs had a correct entry. that guy must have deleted it and added a wrong one.
2006-02-17T19:21:28 <xorAxAx> yeah, i didnt doubt that
2006-02-17T19:21:50 <ThomasWaldmann> but we could check user.valid
2006-02-17T19:21:50 <xorAxAx> but nevertheless its a source of unnoticed user errors with a big impact on security
2006-02-17T19:22:10 <xorAxAx> in any case, we need an isSuperUser method
2006-02-17T19:22:18 <xorAxAx> in order to remove duplicate code
2006-02-17T22:31:19 <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: JFYI: twisted runs at 100% currently
2006-02-17T22:36:57 <xorAxAx> ok :)
2006-02-17T22:37:03 <xorAxAx> so we know that it is lupy
2006-02-17T22:37:17 <xorAxAx> things can be so simple :)
2006-02-17T22:39:53 <dreimark> xorAxAx:should I add a patch about DE and superuser
2006-02-17T22:40:37 <dreimark> if self.request.user.name and self.request.user.name in self.request.cfg.superuser:
2006-02-17T22:40:41 <dreimark> in userform.py
2006-02-17T22:40:45 <dreimark> linie 474
2006-02-17T22:41:01 <xorAxAx> dreimark: no, why?
2006-02-17T22:41:13 <xorAxAx> i think we already talked about this issue, didnt we?
2006-02-17T22:41:20 <xorAxAx> you can find it in the logs ...
2006-02-17T22:41:30 <dreimark> yes we did it was on 5th
2006-02-17T22:41:44 <dreimark> probably this user requests here http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/MoinMoinFragen
2006-02-17T22:42:54 <xorAxAx> no, thats not related
2006-02-17T22:43:01 <xorAxAx> the user had a string set as superuser
2006-02-17T22:43:04 <xorAxAx> if you mean that
2006-02-17T22:43:10 <xorAxAx> (last item)
2006-02-17T22:43:28 <dreimark> thats from Thomas
2006-02-17T22:43:41 <xorAxAx> which item do you mean on that page?
2006-02-17T22:43:44 <dreimark> there is no name used in the name field
2006-02-17T22:44:00 <xorAxAx> ?
2006-02-17T22:44:25 <dreimark> you don't need to use any username in DE if you have set one user as superuser
2006-02-17T22:44:36 <dreimark> no login just select for everyone
2006-02-17T22:44:39 <xorAxAx> as i said, i want to avoid that
2006-02-17T22:45:03 <xorAxAx> and it doesnt make any sense either except if you have multiple personalities
2006-02-17T22:45:17 <xorAxAx> please use a local wikiconfig and create an account
2006-02-17T22:45:49 <dreimark> there was one the last days using DE as zeroconfig wiki
2006-02-17T22:46:25 <xorAxAx> yeah, exactly
2006-02-17T22:46:40 <xorAxAx> then they think about configuring and the first thing they add is interface = ""
2006-02-17T22:46:46 <xorAxAx> and then you have a problem
2006-02-17T22:47:15 <xorAxAx> my point is - no zero-config user needs to switch accounts
2006-02-17T22:47:24 <xorAxAx> either he has none or just one
2006-02-17T22:47:28 <dreimark> and if he adds only one name to superuser all user gots this ability login as everyone
2006-02-17T22:47:47 <dreimark> normally yes but this one talks about a small group users
2006-02-17T22:48:31 <dreimark> they use DE different as supposed
2006-02-17T22:48:48 <dreimark> may be limit the no of accounts to 1
2006-02-17T22:48:58 <xorAxAx> ?
2006-02-17T22:49:10 <xorAxAx> i dont see your problem
2006-02-17T22:49:27 <xorAxAx> if they use the wiki by multiple persons, then they can afford the time adding that line
2006-02-17T22:49:31 <dreimark> In the past I thought DE is just only for me (one user)
2006-02-17T22:49:32 <xorAxAx> thats beyond desktop usage to me
2006-02-17T22:49:47 <xorAxAx> now your colleagues want to peek
2006-02-17T22:49:53 <xorAxAx> but they dont want to be you
2006-02-17T22:50:26 <xorAxAx> this is about security ...
2006-02-17T22:50:34 <dreimark> yeah
2006-02-17T22:51:06 <dreimark> probably they don't use it for peek they try to use it regular
2006-02-17T22:51:55 <xorAxAx> "try to use it regularly"?
2006-02-17T22:52:05 <xorAxAx> umm, how is that? they have there own account
2006-02-17T22:52:26 <dreimark> and one is superuser
2006-02-17T22:52:54 <xorAxAx> yeah and he can afford the time adding that line :)
2006-02-17T22:53:03 <dreimark> he has to know
2006-02-17T22:53:15 *** irc.freenode.net sets mode: +o ChanServ
2006-02-17T22:53:26 <dreimark> there is no hint about
2006-02-17T22:53:37 <dreimark> what is different in configuration acls ...
2006-02-17T22:54:39 <dreimark> normally nothing for a personal moin matter
2006-02-17T22:55:05 <xorAxAx> switching users is nothing for a personal matter either
2006-02-17T22:55:57 <dreimark> if you have only one user right it's impossible
2006-02-17T22:56:38 <xorAxAx> even if you have two users, i dont see any use case :)
2006-02-17T22:57:42 <dreimark> my be superuser should be disabled for DE
2006-02-17T22:57:44 <dreimark> may
2006-02-17T22:58:01 <xorAxAx> then he couldnt install his langguage package
2006-02-17T22:58:19 <dreimark> ok
2006-02-17T22:58:40 <dreimark> but normally it is not defined in wikiconfig.py
2006-02-17T22:59:24 <dreimark> if an existing username is added to this it makes the difference
2006-02-17T23:01:02 <xorAxAx> right. because of that users from localhost are handled differently
2006-02-17T23:02:02 <dreimark> if one tries all features of mm he could not try this one it is very different and he should know this
2006-02-17T23:02:59 <xorAxAx> right, i dont mind, sorry :)
2006-02-17T23:03:27 <xorAxAx> this is "practical value (security implications) vs. wishes of the marketing department"
2006-02-17T23:03:38 <dreimark> always
2006-02-17T23:05:01 <dreimark> so what could be done
2006-02-17T23:05:29 <xorAxAx> quite simple
2006-02-17T23:05:53 <xorAxAx> we need a wizard that creates config files and a first user on the first requests
2006-02-17T23:06:11 <dreimark> lol
2006-02-17T23:06:59 <dreimark> to simple :-)
2006-02-17T23:07:16 <xorAxAx> it is simple from the user's point of view
2006-02-17T23:07:23 <xorAxAx> and simple from the security point of view
2006-02-17T23:08:14 <dreimark> do you then restrict DE just only for this user
2006-02-17T23:08:17 <dreimark> ?
2006-02-17T23:08:44 <xorAxAx> no, just that user will have admin/superuser rights by default
2006-02-17T23:09:03 <dreimark> internal or by this var
2006-02-17T23:10:37 <dreimark> and do you add this line if self.request.user.name ...
2006-02-17T23:10:57 <xorAxAx> ?
2006-02-17T23:11:14 <dreimark> I don't know how to say it
2006-02-17T23:11:43 <dreimark> if you have one user yourself and you add this name to superuser
2006-02-17T23:11:56 <dreimark> everyone who is able to login to your machine
2006-02-17T23:12:08 <dreimark> could login to DE with your name without a password
2006-02-17T23:12:24 <xorAxAx> hmm, no
2006-02-17T23:12:32 <xorAxAx> he has to know the superuser pwd first
2006-02-17T23:12:42 <dreimark> no
2006-02-17T23:13:47 <dreimark> he needs not to know a name and not to know a password it is exactly like the one it has on MoinMoinFragen
2006-02-17T23:14:12 <dreimark> he gots listed the user and could select it
2006-02-17T23:14:20 <dreimark> then the cookie is set
2006-02-17T23:14:25 <dreimark> and he is logged in
2006-02-17T23:14:59 <xorAxAx> this is only possible in case of a misconfiguration
2006-02-17T23:15:03 <dreimark> no
2006-02-17T23:15:20 <xorAxAx> DE doesnt do the localhost check for that su thingie
2006-02-17T23:15:51 <dreimark> use DE set suoeruser to your name then logout and select login
2006-02-17T23:16:21 <xorAxAx> it did not delete your cookie?
2006-02-17T23:16:28 <xorAxAx> then you should file a bug
2006-02-17T23:16:37 <dreimark> logout deletes the cookie
2006-02-17T23:17:06 <dreimark> but while everyone on the machine (localhost) has superuser if one is added to this var
2006-02-17T23:17:21 <dreimark> everayone could login as everyone
2006-02-17T23:17:23 <xorAxAx> no, not everyone using it from localhost is superuser
2006-02-17T23:17:32 <xorAxAx> but they can use the packageinstaller
2006-02-17T23:17:42 <dreimark> is that complicated
2006-02-17T23:17:42 <xorAxAx> so it is a risk on a multiuser system, indeed
2006-02-17T23:17:51 <xorAxAx> yeah, it is :)
2006-02-17T23:18:07 <dreimark> the problem is adding a username to superuser
2006-02-17T23:18:15 <dreimark> on DE
2006-02-17T23:18:20 <xorAxAx> hmm, yeah, configuration in general
2006-02-17T23:19:38 <dreimark> if file a bug report and the patch but this should be tested carefully
2006-02-17T23:19:51 <dreimark> I don't know mutch on the changes for DE
2006-02-17T23:20:23 <xorAxAx> what do you want to patch?
2006-02-17T23:20:44 <xorAxAx> there is no real problem here except for PI usage to unpriveleged users on a multiuser system
2006-02-17T23:20:49 <dreimark> userform.py
2006-02-17T23:20:55 <dreimark> linie 474
2006-02-17T23:21:05 <dreimark> may be if self.request.user.name and self.request.user.name in self.request.cfg.superuser:
2006-02-17T23:21:45 <xorAxAx> in order to fix the problem seen in the wiki?
2006-02-17T23:22:10 <xorAxAx> yeah, but at least i wont apply that patch but factor out that code into a User.method
2006-02-17T23:22:22 <dreimark> yeah and to prevent for login without superuser password
2006-02-17T23:24:00 <xorAxAx> i will read the log and have to learn for maths now ...
2006-02-17T23:24:07 <dreimark> may be that is better because it was not needed for MM
2006-02-17T23:24:13 <dreimark> ok
MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2006-02-17 (last edited 2007-10-29 19:08:02 by localhost)