2006-06-29T00:00:02 <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: same user, different id, different log entries
2006-06-29T00:00:04 <AndrewSmart> but finally beeing Pythonic... you don't have a chance :-))
2006-06-29T00:00:27 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: ah
2006-06-29T00:00:49 <xorAxAx> AndrewSmart: there is a page about sync: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/WikiSyncronisation
2006-06-29T00:00:51 <AndrewSmart> So I'm willing to spent some money to give moinmoin some twiki features i need & want to have - but in some specific areas *better* than twiki
2006-06-29T00:00:54 <xorAxAx> AndrewSmart: add your ideas there
2006-06-29T00:01:26 <AndrewSmart> I'll check & see
2006-06-29T00:01:29 <AndrewSmart> & do
2006-06-29T00:01:40 <ThomasWaldmann> AndrewSmart: some twiki stuff is powerful, but some stuff looks weird (like perl :)
2006-06-29T00:01:55 <AndrewSmart> setting and tweaking twiki is a nightmare
2006-06-29T00:01:59 <ThomasWaldmann> so we can try to have it look / feel less weird
2006-06-29T00:02:18 <AndrewSmart> the %SEARCH - functionality is extremly powerful - but it took my days to find out how to use it
2006-06-29T00:02:40 <AndrewSmart> and it's painful slow
2006-06-29T00:02:42 <AndrewSmart> even with caching
2006-06-29T00:02:55 <ThomasWaldmann> Xapian will soon rule :)
2006-06-29T00:02:57 <AndrewSmart> and you can't set it up with hostet webspace
2006-06-29T00:03:02 <AndrewSmart> ??
2006-06-29T00:03:18 <ThomasWaldmann> our next indexed search engine
2006-06-29T00:03:19 <xorAxAx> its nice to know that its slow
2006-06-29T00:03:31 <xorAxAx> AndrewSmart: oh, why is that? because you need cvs binaries?
2006-06-29T00:03:34 <xorAxAx> or rcs binaries
2006-06-29T00:03:57 <AndrewSmart> fine - if you are also supporting indexing of meta-data that even better... ;-)
2006-06-29T00:04:12 <AndrewSmart> you have to setup rights and do some rights/apache tweaking
2006-06-29T00:04:20 <AndrewSmart> normal webhosters don't allow that normally
2006-06-29T00:04:22 <ThomasWaldmann> it is currently being implemented
2006-06-29T00:04:48 <AndrewSmart> the last area of change ideas is a bit more comple
2006-06-29T00:04:51 <AndrewSmart> complex
2006-06-29T00:05:17 <AndrewSmart> if we have meta data support, webforms and some minor corporate features we can start working on the "document" stuff
2006-06-29T00:05:34 <mvirkkil> ThomasWaldmann: Not a single macro uses ParameterParser :/
2006-06-29T00:05:52 <AndrewSmart> basic idea: you store various content in a wiki
2006-06-29T00:06:07 <ThomasWaldmann> mvirkkil: you can be the pioneer :)
2006-06-29T00:06:21 <AndrewSmart> and people/groups are able to retrieve "their" view out of wiki in PDF oder .doc format
2006-06-29T00:06:54 <mvirkkil> ThomasWaldmann: Except that the instructions for using it are not complete.
2006-06-29T00:07:21 <AndrewSmart> the interesting thing would be that the document/view definition will be generic - based on the meta data of the various content pages
2006-06-29T00:07:24 <xorAxAx> mvirkkil: of course :)
2006-06-29T00:07:37 <xorAxAx> mvirkkil: even fabi didnt figure out how to use it when i asked him
2006-06-29T00:07:45 <ThomasWaldmann> AndrewSmart: did you look at our mimetype ideas?
2006-06-29T00:07:51 <xorAxAx> and still people refrain from writing docs
2006-06-29T00:08:17 <xorAxAx> AndrewSmart: umm, you can already switch to a "pdf view"
2006-06-29T00:08:18 <AndrewSmart> I looked over it but - to be true - i didn't grasp the idea behind it
2006-06-29T00:08:23 <xorAxAx> AndrewSmart: on a per page basis
2006-06-29T00:08:29 <AndrewSmart> I know - I know also that there is a docbook approach
2006-06-29T00:08:32 <xorAxAx> AndrewSmart: so what would be new?
2006-06-29T00:08:33 <xorAxAx> yes
2006-06-29T00:09:06 <AndrewSmart> first: the documents I need would contain a large set of wiki pages
2006-06-29T00:09:36 <AndrewSmart> I need table-of-contents, I need filtering of pages based on meta-data of the pages
2006-06-29T00:09:56 <xorAxAx> which would mean having a flexible include macro in the current model
2006-06-29T00:10:08 <AndrewSmart> yep, something like that
2006-06-29T00:10:31 <AndrewSmart> twiki has a kind of this already, but you have to define the content of the document manually - more or less
2006-06-29T00:10:43 <AndrewSmart> what I want is a generic view definition
2006-06-29T00:11:02 <AndrewSmart> I could explain the usecase if you are interested - or you wait until you see the spec
2006-06-29T00:11:25 <AndrewSmart> If I can realize my ideas I could gain support of larger IT organisations for using this stuff
2006-06-29T00:11:49 <AndrewSmart> like, say, people from Vodafone or T-Mobile
2006-06-29T00:11:58 <AndrewSmart> companies I'm consult currently ;-)
2006-06-29T00:12:06 <ThomasWaldmann> i guess your input will be useful to us soon
2006-06-29T00:12:31 <ThomasWaldmann> we just need to have the new mimetype and storage stuff working first
2006-06-29T00:12:57 <AndrewSmart> is there any kind of "todo" list where you have your focus on currently?
2006-06-29T00:13:19 <AndrewSmart> I'm willing to speed up things to reach my goals :-)
2006-06-29T00:13:51 <AndrewSmart> just to be curious: does anyone of you work fulltime on moinmoin or is it more-or-less continued in "free time"?
2006-06-29T00:13:52 <ThomasWaldmann> current focus is our 3 google soc projects
2006-06-29T00:14:04 <AndrewSmart> ???
2006-06-29T00:14:08 <xorAxAx> AndrewSmart: all SOC students work full time
2006-06-29T00:14:11 <xorAxAx> sponsored by google
2006-06-29T00:14:16 <ThomasWaldmann> sync, storage/items, xapian search
2006-06-29T00:14:28 <xorAxAx> http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/GoogleSoc2006
2006-06-29T00:15:05 <mvirkkil> AndrewSmart: I'm working on the docbook approach (I'm Fedora's SoC-student, working part time on this).
2006-06-29T00:15:16 <xorAxAx> sponsored by google as well
2006-06-29T00:15:35 <AndrewSmart> ah, cool
2006-06-29T00:15:50 <mvirkkil> AndrewSmart: And I've just finished writing a more flexible include macro (I call insert) which I'll use to build a docbook from multiple wikipages.
2006-06-29T00:16:21 <mvirkkil> AndrewSmart: I've got support for parts, chapters, colophon, appendix, glossary, footnote and some other stuff.
2006-06-29T00:16:21 <AndrewSmart> ah... do you have some senior mentors or how do I have to understand the "mentor" thing?
2006-06-29T00:16:29 <AndrewSmart> cool
2006-06-29T00:16:33 <xorAxAx> the mentors actually give a rating
2006-06-29T00:16:44 <xorAxAx> and are not allowed to be students in the same project at the same time :-(
2006-06-29T00:17:05 <AndrewSmart> will you get in trouble If you use "external" help?
2006-06-29T00:17:10 <AndrewSmart> in terms of "rating"
2006-06-29T00:17:11 <AndrewSmart> ?
2006-06-29T00:17:12 <mvirkkil> AndrewSmart: The only thing I don't have that you'd need is a table of contents thingie, since with docbook that is automagically generated from the docbook.
2006-06-29T00:17:27 <AndrewSmart> mvirkkil: ah, fine
2006-06-29T00:17:29 <xorAxAx> AndrewSmart: thats to be determined by the mentor mainly
2006-06-29T00:18:15 <mvirkkil> AndrewSmart: Well, we're all discussing our approaches and stuff here... I don't think anyone is getting in to trouble for this, but I guess if you did the whole project with a friend or something and you got caught, you might not get pais.
2006-06-29T00:18:23 <mvirkkil> s/pais/paid
2006-06-29T00:18:30 <AndrewSmart> my "sponsored" participation would be probably 200h working dev'time / month
2006-06-29T00:19:02 <AndrewSmart> I would spend 1 or 2 months - depending how far this would bring moinmoin
2006-06-29T00:19:04 <xorAxAx> umm
2006-06-29T00:19:12 <xorAxAx> thats quite much :-)
2006-06-29T00:19:15 <ThomasWaldmann> googles definition for "help" is that it is no problem as long as the student project part is reasonable and clearly determined iirc
2006-06-29T00:19:16 <AndrewSmart> I know
2006-06-29T00:19:35 <xorAxAx> AndrewSmart: but if you say that you have your coders already ...
2006-06-29T00:19:45 <xorAxAx> AndrewSmart: then those will implement the features
2006-06-29T00:19:46 <AndrewSmart> as long as we have seperate and clear defined jobs
2006-06-29T00:19:50 <xorAxAx> yeah
2006-06-29T00:20:03 <xorAxAx> i think you only collide with the sync, right?
2006-06-29T00:20:14 <AndrewSmart> hmmm...
2006-06-29T00:20:19 <xorAxAx> this view thingie would build upon available tools like the new include macro
2006-06-29T00:20:28 <AndrewSmart> I'll check the sync stuff - maybe its sufficient for what I need
2006-06-29T00:20:36 <AndrewSmart> then the focus would go to different areas
2006-06-29T00:21:08 <AndrewSmart> so maybe the focus would be best on webforms and meta data?
2006-06-29T00:21:16 <xorAxAx> are you planning on having a master server for syncing?
2006-06-29T00:21:23 <xorAxAx> then my results might be sufficient
2006-06-29T00:21:39 <AndrewSmart> must it be a active server process on the master or just a data store?
2006-06-29T00:21:55 <AndrewSmart> combined with some .py's called like webpages...?
2006-06-29T00:21:57 <xorAxAx> just a moin
2006-06-29T00:22:04 <mvirkkil> ThomasWaldmann: I figured out how to use ParameterParser. It's quite nice and I shaved of a few lines from my code :)
2006-06-29T00:22:36 <AndrewSmart> where are you all based?
2006-06-29T00:22:36 <xorAxAx> mvirkkil: document it, please :)
2006-06-29T00:22:37 <ThomasWaldmann> great, so you can add the missing docs to it now <eg>
2006-06-29T00:22:48 <ThomasWaldmann> ehehe
2006-06-29T00:23:00 <xorAxAx> germany, besides that one is .fi and another .uk
2006-06-29T00:23:02 <ThomasWaldmann> AndrewSmart: stuttgart area
2006-06-29T00:23:12 <xorAxAx> paderborn
2006-06-29T00:23:18 <AndrewSmart> Düsseldorf
2006-06-29T00:23:34 <AndrewSmart> .fi ? Finnland?
2006-06-29T00:23:38 <xorAxAx> yes
2006-06-29T00:23:42 <xorAxAx> mvirkkil is from .fi
2006-06-29T00:23:54 <ThomasWaldmann> AndrewSmart: you dont visit europython, do you?
2006-06-29T00:23:56 <AndrewSmart> so we have more-or-less the same time zones :-)
2006-06-29T00:24:14 <xorAxAx> .fi is +2, right, mvirkkil?
2006-06-29T00:24:21 <xorAxAx> .uk is +0 obviously
2006-06-29T00:24:23 <AndrewSmart> yes i did - I'm the one who did those crazy speeches about "does python change the way programmers think..." :-)
2006-06-29T00:24:44 <xorAxAx> AndrewSmart: he planned to use the future
2006-06-29T00:24:51 <xorAxAx> AndrewSmart: and meant the upcoming EP
2006-06-29T00:24:57 <xorAxAx> which starts on monday
2006-06-29T00:25:11 <xorAxAx> where tom and i will have a talk about moin
2006-06-29T00:25:23 <AndrewSmart> highly probably not - business has a firm grasp on my schedule
2006-06-29T00:25:28 <xorAxAx> hehe
2006-06-29T00:25:30 <AndrewSmart> I would like to...
2006-06-29T00:25:55 <xorAxAx> yeah, its not easy as a one-man show :)
2006-06-29T00:26:07 <ThomasWaldmann> we will throw a python into an accelerator :)
2006-06-29T00:26:12 <mvirkkil> xorAxAx: Actually, during the summer it's +3
2006-06-29T00:26:21 <xorAxAx> mvirkkil: yes, i know
2006-06-29T00:26:33 <mvirkkil> xorAxAx: So it's 1:26 in the morning (yawn)
2006-06-29T00:26:40 <xorAxAx> mvirkkil: sportive!
2006-06-29T00:27:11 <AndrewSmart> the one-man-show wouldn't stop me... it's because i'm currently working on 4 projects various projects the same time :-))
2006-06-29T00:27:12 * mvirkkil has got to be at work tomorrow at 8 :(
2006-06-29T00:27:37 <xorAxAx> AndrewSmart: hehe
2006-06-29T00:27:54 * ThomasWaldmann will have car at service at 0800
2006-06-29T00:28:00 <xorAxAx> AndrewSmart: if your company had more fixed employees, you could give one all projects for those days and go to .ch :)
2006-06-29T00:28:28 <AndrewSmart> one of the projects is currently founding a new company with 4 other partners to be able to grow... :-)
2006-06-29T00:28:44 <AndrewSmart> then .ch would be easy to achive... say... in my next life or so *lol*
2006-06-29T00:29:08 <xorAxAx> hehe
2006-06-29T00:29:13 <ThomasWaldmann> we need a better hg clone :)
2006-06-29T00:29:49 <AndrewSmart> I'll close for now - I'll invite my dev's to this chat - in the next days (they are +4h, so I'll see when they have time)
2006-06-29T00:30:07 <AndrewSmart> I'll write some specs in the moinmoin feature-request-pages
2006-06-29T00:30:16 <ThomasWaldmann> ok, me too. gn everybody.
2006-06-29T00:30:17 <xorAxAx> good idea
2006-06-29T00:30:23 <xorAxAx> gn ThomasWaldmann
2006-06-29T00:30:26 <AndrewSmart> then we'll talk again
2006-06-29T00:30:33 <AndrewSmart> ok?
2006-06-29T00:30:42 <ThomasWaldmann> sure :)
2006-06-29T00:30:55 <AndrewSmart> fine
2006-06-29T00:30:56 <AndrewSmart> cu
2006-06-29T07:33:57 <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2006-06-29T10:10:05 <Kepplar> Morning
2006-06-29T10:10:06 <Kepplar> moin
2006-06-29T14:04:01 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: you merged this cookie hash code ...
2006-06-29T14:04:07 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: i looked at it today
2006-06-29T14:04:19 <xorAxAx> it is more insecure than the old ID auth
2006-06-29T14:04:25 <xorAxAx> nwp_: did you write ti?
2006-06-29T14:04:38 <xorAxAx> furthermore, i completly miss the point of having it :)
2006-06-29T14:04:41 <xorAxAx> it
2006-06-29T14:05:09 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: so can you explain the hashing that is done there and why the hash and the plain text ID is transmitted?
2006-06-29T14:47:37 <Kepplar> lo
2006-06-29T14:47:39 <Kepplar> dodod
2006-06-29T15:01:50 <xorAxAx> dadad!
2006-06-29T15:02:19 <mvirkkil> How can I find out the name of the server that the http-get was addressed to? This is especially a problem when one apache is running multiple virtual hosts.
2006-06-29T15:02:37 <mvirkkil> From inside moinmoin of course,
2006-06-29T15:03:03 <xorAxAx> see multiconfig.py
2006-06-29T15:05:13 <mvirkkil> xorAxAx: hmm.. Not sure what would be suitable. The closest thing I can find is cookie_domain
2006-06-29T15:05:45 <xorAxAx> not the config options
2006-06-29T15:05:49 <xorAxAx> but the config dispatcher
2006-06-29T15:06:06 <xorAxAx> mvirkkil: have you done a print(dir(request))?
2006-06-29T15:06:39 <mvirkkil> xorAxAx: Nope.
2006-06-29T15:06:51 <mvirkkil> xorAxAx: I'll look in to that. Thanks for the tip.
2006-06-29T18:49:47 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: PáginaInicial has _still_ incorrect ACLs
2006-06-29T20:00:15 <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2006-06-29T21:07:28 <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: see above
2006-06-29T21:34:25 <xorAxAx> Kepplar: ping
2006-06-29T22:05:00 <Kepplar> pong
2006-06-29T22:09:15 <xorAxAx> Kepplar: will you be at europython?
2006-06-29T22:39:22 <Kepplar> nein passport expired and i lost it
2006-06-29T22:39:33 <Kepplar> takes 6 weeks to get when you lost it :/
2006-06-29T22:40:03 <xorAxAx> hmm, thats bad
2006-06-29T22:40:10 <xorAxAx> dont forget to fix up the wiki page listing your name
2006-06-29T22:40:16 <Kepplar> ok
MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2006-06-29 (last edited 2007-10-29 19:13:20 by localhost)
