2007-08-04T11:17:01 <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2007-08-04T13:45:23 <vpv> geetings from Assembly :)
2007-08-04T13:45:28 <vpv> greetings even
2007-08-04T13:46:18 <vpv> the internet connection at my student apartment in Helsinki hasn't worked at all, since yesterday morning I suppose, so my progress sucks at the moment :/
2007-08-04T13:52:12 <ThomasWaldmann> vpv: well, if you are at assembly, i guess you are busy with other stuff anyway :)
2007-08-04T14:25:31 <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU%20General%20Public%20License
2007-08-04T14:25:55 <ThomasWaldmann> looks like the feature you want to implement for 1.6
2007-08-04T15:36:08 <vpv> and again I have path problems, this time on my laptop. At least now I have an idea where to look and what might be wrong :D
2007-08-04T16:55:16 <CIA-27> moin: Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> * 2599:13f0331f3a42 1.7/MoinMoin/script/migration/ (_conv160.py _conv160_wiki.py): 1.6 converter: add content conversion (unfinished), cleanup
2007-08-04T16:55:18 <CIA-27> moin: Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> * 2600:4add21cdd6e8 1.7/ (MoinMoin/macro/_tests/test_Action.py setup.py): merge main
2007-08-04T17:09:59 <CIA-27> moin: Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> * 2127:b0d04ee719c7 1.6/MoinMoin/action/AttachFile.py: show new 1.6 quoted attachment syntax in attachment list
2007-08-04T17:12:26 <vpv> ThomasWaldmann, xorAxAx: I think wiki/data/pages should be in default hgignore, what do you think?
2007-08-04T17:26:12 <ThomasWaldmann> no, currently the stuff there is under revision control
2007-08-04T17:27:18 <vpv> oh, ok, then that's understandable, I'll just keep it in my .hgignore
2007-08-04T17:35:31 <CIA-27> moin: Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> * 2601:29657277dd37 1.7/MoinMoin/action/AttachFile.py: show new 1.6 quoted attachment syntax in attachment list
2007-08-04T17:39:19 <CIA-27> moin: Heinrich Wendel <h_wendel@cojobo.net> * 2777:8bd257f24e80 1.7-storage-hwendel/MoinMoin/ (10 files in 4 dirs): more unit test work; add missing things from last commits
2007-08-04T18:13:02 <vpv> yay, I've done some testing on PageEditor, whatever slows down xmlrpc putpage, it's not there in PE. Adding a page takes less than a second.
2007-08-04T18:17:27 <vpv> ThomasWaldmann: does http://hg.moinmo.in/moin/1.7-maninfo-vpv/rev/55d525e18fa4 look like it could go to main?
2007-08-04T19:11:13 <ThomasWaldmann> vpv: did you try killing it completely?
2007-08-04T20:26:27 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2707:dbb19db12abc 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Fix whitespaces
2007-08-04T20:26:33 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2717:7ef8bc3c2fa9 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/classifier/recommendation_system.py: Collect maximum term frequency. Add initial classification cache
2007-08-04T20:26:35 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2718:781e6983bfe5 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/classifier/__init__.py: Clean whitespace
2007-08-04T20:26:38 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2719:e89bbe63278c 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/classifier/recommendation_system.py: Add classification cache
2007-08-04T20:26:44 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2720:911eeabffa69 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/classifier/ (security_policy.py spam_bayes.py): Clean whitespace
2007-08-04T20:26:55 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2721:ba80690955db 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/classifier/spam_bayes_rpc.py: Clean whitespace
2007-08-04T20:27:03 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2722:0c29b92af431 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/theme/__init__.py: Add debuging entry
2007-08-04T20:27:13 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2723:8c2ffacd801d 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/theme/modern.py: Add debugging entry
2007-08-04T20:27:19 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2724:cd5403044ba3 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/support/art.py: Prevent division with zero and remove debugging
2007-08-04T20:27:34 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2738:29237a1ee81b 1.7-classify-mneagul/ (27 files in 18 dirs): Merge with main
2007-08-04T20:27:42 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2739:c24324765733 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/theme/__init__.py: Check for classifier in theme
2007-08-04T20:27:50 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2740:8d7e06b6275b 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/ (classifier/recommendation_system.py theme/__init__.py): Fix coding style
2007-08-04T20:27:58 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2741:310fa7eae202 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/events/classifiernotify.py: Add classifier check
2007-08-04T20:28:06 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2742:c980dce6e541 1.7-classify-mneagul/wikiconfig.py: Cleanup wikiconfig
2007-08-04T20:28:14 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2743:7b7ac8fd80f1 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/action/ (learnpages.py selectfeatures.py): Support actions for the recommender
2007-08-04T20:28:20 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2744:01ddd34e3212 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/classifier/recommendation_system.py: Add category extraction and fix locking
2007-08-04T20:28:32 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2745:de8be3efb452 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/theme/__init__.py: Fix unicode issue
2007-08-04T20:28:40 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2746:e86249269328 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/macro/WikiClusters.py: Macro to display the clusters
2007-08-04T20:28:48 <CIA-27> moin: Marian Neagul marian@info.uvt.ro work * 2747:26b2b8b3019c 1.7-classify-mneagul/MoinMoin/macro/WikiClusters.py: Fix name in macro
2007-08-04T21:28:28 <CIA-27> moin: Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> * 2602:b601db2e4d34 1.7/MoinMoin/script/migration/ (_conv160.py _conv160_wiki.py _tests/test_conv160_wiki.py): 1.6 converter: improve content conversion, add test for it
2007-08-04T22:07:25 <DrFrasierCrane> hey, is anyone alive here?
2007-08-04T22:12:35 <ThomasWaldmann> sure
2007-08-04T22:13:08 <ThomasWaldmann> DrFrasierCrane: you just need some patience :)
2007-08-04T22:13:17 <DrFrasierCrane> oh, great
2007-08-04T22:13:25 <DrFrasierCrane> well
2007-08-04T22:13:35 <DrFrasierCrane> i'm wondering
2007-08-04T22:16:05 <DrFrasierCrane> I'm a new maintainer of Newton Desktop Wiki (see http://newton.sourceforge.net/ - old stuff) - basically it's a wiki on a desktop :-) it'll be (re)written using PyGTK and integrated with Gnome (applet etc). I'm currently evaluating possibility to use existing wiki engine as a backend because I have some quite extensive vision of the project and I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to find the time to implement all the features, not to mention rei
2007-08-04T22:16:40 <DrFrasierCrane> point is, would it be hard to "extract" from MoinMoin just the core wiki engine to use as a standalone engine? write new editors (GTK controls) etc.
2007-08-04T22:17:03 <DrFrasierCrane> sure i know it would be a challenge, but I can take it if it's worth the trouble in your opinion
2007-08-04T22:18:22 <ThomasWaldmann> extracting would be hard
2007-08-04T22:18:42 <ThomasWaldmann> but you can communicate with moin using xmlrpc
2007-08-04T22:19:21 <DrFrasierCrane> but that would assume that instance of MoinMoin is running in the background right ?
2007-08-04T22:20:15 <ThomasWaldmann> yes
2007-08-04T22:20:34 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, moin has a desktop edition :)
2007-08-04T22:20:40 <DrFrasierCrane> i know
2007-08-04T22:22:18 <DrFrasierCrane> but Newton is meant to be really integrated with desktop - I going big on MVC so I want to have pluggable Views so that Newton can have a sticky-notes-on-the-desktop kind of view and also regular application view with treeview of the wiki and stuff, but currently I'm looking for a Model
2007-08-04T22:22:32 <DrFrasierCrane> *I'm going
2007-08-04T22:22:59 <DrFrasierCrane> hmm... so you discourage extraction hacking?
2007-08-04T22:23:22 <ThomasWaldmann> well, I can see the point of sharing some code, but otoh I can't see how to do that without lots of trouble
2007-08-04T22:23:40 <ThomasWaldmann> currently moin is rather tightly coupled in the core
2007-08-04T22:24:29 <ThomasWaldmann> the modular stuff is better, but all is made for browser usage or usage by xmlrpc
2007-08-04T22:24:44 <DrFrasierCrane> I browsed through the code briefly and things like wiki syntax parser or Page class is just something that would help me greatly in the development, the thing is - is it better to hack MoinMoin or struggle to write my own wiki implementation
2007-08-04T22:25:11 <ThomasWaldmann> we are currently doing some cleanup to make it less tightly coupled, but that can still take quite some time
2007-08-04T22:25:35 <DrFrasierCrane> also there would be a possibility that I could actually contribute to MoinMoin maybe while hacking and that's always rewarding
2007-08-04T22:25:48 <DrFrasierCrane> to be honest I would hate to reinvent the wheel grr
2007-08-04T22:25:57 <ThomasWaldmann> parser calls formatter, both use request obj and configuration
2007-08-04T22:26:32 <DrFrasierCrane> is there some sort of bleeding-edge trunk where this clean up is happening?
2007-08-04T22:27:02 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, if you look at code, maybe at least look at 1.6 (if not 1.7), see hg.moinmo.in
2007-08-04T22:27:24 <DrFrasierCrane> yes i have 1.6
2007-08-04T22:27:28 <DrFrasierCrane> nope sorry
2007-08-04T22:27:32 <DrFrasierCrane> 1.5.8 :D
2007-08-04T22:27:34 <ThomasWaldmann> 1.6 is next release, not too development is happening there
2007-08-04T22:27:42 <ThomasWaldmann> 1.7 is devel repo
2007-08-04T22:27:51 <DrFrasierCrane> publicly accessible?
2007-08-04T22:27:54 <ThomasWaldmann> sure
2007-08-04T22:28:01 <DrFrasierCrane> ok I'll take a look
2007-08-04T22:30:59 <ThomasWaldmann> hmm, you could make some request object and call it, just to render one page
2007-08-04T22:31:28 <DrFrasierCrane> I'm using Gecko as a renderer
2007-08-04T22:32:07 <DrFrasierCrane> so HTML is fine, everything goes really
2007-08-04T22:32:11 <DrFrasierCrane> "62 minutes agoThomas Waldmann "
2007-08-04T22:32:20 <DrFrasierCrane> haha now i see where the development is hiding :D
2007-08-04T22:32:46 <ThomasWaldmann> :)
2007-08-04T22:33:20 <DrFrasierCrane> to be honest it would be great to integrate such a great project into Newton
2007-08-04T22:33:31 <DrFrasierCrane> I'll evaluate this possiblity
2007-08-04T22:33:46 <DrFrasierCrane> but I'm biased towards making it work actually :)
2007-08-04T22:35:25 <DrFrasierCrane> and if I manage to make it work, Newton could a proof-of-concept that you did good job on clean up :)
2007-08-04T22:35:51 <ThomasWaldmann> hehe
2007-08-04T22:36:12 <ThomasWaldmann> dont hold your breath until we finished cleaning up
2007-08-04T22:37:31 <DrFrasierCrane> sure I'm aware that "extraction" probably is going to take a lot of hacking
2007-08-04T22:37:40 <DrFrasierCrane> but writing my own wiki also does
2007-08-04T22:38:00 <ThomasWaldmann> maybe better try to use it as backend somehow
2007-08-04T22:38:43 <DrFrasierCrane> BTW
2007-08-04T22:39:14 <ThomasWaldmann> extraction would be lots of work and not sure if it would work at the end (without extracting 100% of the core :)
2007-08-04T22:39:18 <DrFrasierCrane> I don't have much experience in FOSS development, so I'm asking just to make sure, don't laugh :)
2007-08-04T22:39:58 <DrFrasierCrane> GPL means that I can adapt, extract, integrate whatever I want right? of course with giving you guyts credit
2007-08-04T22:40:08 <ThomasWaldmann> so maybe interfacing somehow would be easier and you could follow our development (or even take part)
2007-08-04T22:40:44 <ThomasWaldmann> well, you just have to follow the GPL license :)
2007-08-04T22:40:55 <grzywacz> You have to put your code under GPL as well.
2007-08-04T22:41:05 <DrFrasierCrane> that goes without saying
2007-08-04T22:41:17 <grzywacz> Ok, then feel free to use it. ;)
2007-08-04T22:41:50 <ThomasWaldmann> newton is also GPL, so that should be no problem
2007-08-04T22:41:59 <DrFrasierCrane> yep
2007-08-04T22:42:05 <DrFrasierCrane> and you're right, finding some way to "interface" with MM is going to be my goal, because it's better for everyone
2007-08-04T22:42:24 <DrFrasierCrane> easier for me to merge changes from MM into not-so-hacked Newton version of MM
2007-08-04T22:43:22 <DrFrasierCrane> and better for you because I could actually contribute something, because my patches would be applicable to your tree
2007-08-04T22:44:35 <DrFrasierCrane> ok, thanks for the talk guys
2007-08-04T22:45:02 <ThomasWaldmann> you're welcome :)
2007-08-04T22:45:24 <DrFrasierCrane> I'll let you know about the results of my crazy research
2007-08-04T22:45:25 <DrFrasierCrane> :)
2007-08-04T22:45:30 <ThomasWaldmann> btw, have a look at mercurial :)
2007-08-04T22:46:14 <DrFrasierCrane> yeah, I've already added it to the list of "new things to learn while developing Newton" :-D
2007-08-04T22:46:26 <DrFrasierCrane> it's just below Python and GTK on that list :D
2007-08-04T22:46:55 <DrFrasierCrane> nah, I'm kidding, I ain't so bad, just crazy sometimes
2007-08-04T22:47:09 <DrFrasierCrane> big plans and then no time to accomplish anything :(
2007-08-04T22:47:45 <DrFrasierCrane> but I really want to focus on learning Python after my day-job (surprise... Java! :D)
2007-08-04T22:47:54 <DrFrasierCrane> ok, enough of this brain dump :)
2007-08-04T22:48:01 <ThomasWaldmann> hehe
2007-08-04T22:48:09 <ThomasWaldmann> Java for work, Python to relax
2007-08-04T22:48:31 <DrFrasierCrane> exactly
2007-08-04T22:49:20 <DrFrasierCrane> ok, bye, thanks again
2007-08-04T22:58:50 <grzywacz> Finally, looks like I've managed to fix my mess...
2007-08-04T23:27:31 <DrFrasierCrane> me again! :D
2007-08-04T23:27:43 <DrFrasierCrane> i've done some xmlrpc test and it looks really great!
2007-08-04T23:28:07 <grzywacz> Welcome back!
2007-08-04T23:28:13 <grzywacz> Yes, xmlrpc works. ;)
2007-08-04T23:28:14 <DrFrasierCrane> i thought that standalone moinmoin startup will take like million years, but it's instant
2007-08-04T23:28:19 <grzywacz> Yes.
2007-08-04T23:28:24 <DrFrasierCrane> and it doesn't take so much resources as I thought
2007-08-04T23:28:37 <ThomasWaldmann> it depends on what you do :)
2007-08-04T23:29:17 <DrFrasierCrane> yes well Newton is a desktop app so most popular use case will look like this: "click page A, change something, save"
2007-08-04T23:29:34 <DrFrasierCrane> and I guess it can be handled nicely through xmlrpc
2007-08-04T23:29:54 <grzywacz> Hm.
2007-08-04T23:30:24 <grzywacz> Yes, but you'll probably have to use a separate "renderer" for wiki markup.
2007-08-04T23:30:40 <grzywacz> You can, of course, get a html-formatted page, but you don't want to save it back like that.
2007-08-04T23:31:03 <grzywacz> And raw content can't be displayed as it.
2007-08-04T23:31:07 <grzywacz> *as is
2007-08-04T23:31:25 <DrFrasierCrane> Newton always used wiki markup
2007-08-04T23:31:37 <DrFrasierCrane> it's not 100% compatible with moinmoin's syntax
2007-08-04T23:31:45 <DrFrasierCrane> but it will if i decide to use MM as a backend
2007-08-04T23:31:58 <grzywacz> ack
2007-08-04T23:32:06 <DrFrasierCrane> or did I misunderstood your point
2007-08-04T23:32:25 <grzywacz> No, ok. It's just that I don't know anything about Newton. :-)
2007-08-04T23:32:58 <DrFrasierCrane> it's going to be just like going to a wiki in a webbrowser, only you will be able to edit for example list of todos in a yellow sticky note on your desktop
2007-08-04T23:33:23 <DrFrasierCrane> http://newton.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html - look here to get the general idea
2007-08-04T23:33:28 <grzywacz> ok
2007-08-04T23:33:58 <DrFrasierCrane> one more thing that bugs me
2007-08-04T23:35:01 <DrFrasierCrane> I designed something I call "page templates" - basically someone can write a template for example TodoTemplate and then user creates a new page with this template - and it's rendered and handled by TodoTemplate plugin so that user has nice list of todos + management options
2007-08-04T23:35:21 <DrFrasierCrane> does MoinMoin have some kind of plugin infrastructure ?
2007-08-04T23:35:37 <DrFrasierCrane> or would I have to do it in Newton side
2007-08-04T23:36:12 <grzywacz> Moin does support predefined page templates.
2007-08-04T23:36:18 <grzywacz> You can choose one when you create a new page.
2007-08-04T23:36:34 <grzywacz> but...
2007-08-04T23:37:05 <grzywacz> I think someone more experiences should answer this question.;)
2007-08-04T23:38:53 <DrFrasierCrane> by "template" I not only mean page layout, but also functionality, ideally TodoTemplate plugin could provide its own diff generator so that user could see in the revision control things like "you added TODO blabla" instead of just plain text diff
2007-08-04T23:38:58 <DrFrasierCrane> but that's too complicated I guess
2007-08-04T23:39:43 <ThomasWaldmann> moin templates are currently just content loaded into editor when editing a new page
2007-08-04T23:40:08 <DrFrasierCrane> so how can I plug in custom logic to moin pages ?
2007-08-04T23:40:20 <ThomasWaldmann> there are actions
2007-08-04T23:40:27 <grzywacz> And macros maybe?
2007-08-04T23:40:41 <grzywacz> Yes, in general there is some kind of plugin system in place.
2007-08-04T23:41:10 <DrFrasierCrane> ok, I'll look into it
2007-08-04T23:41:28 <ThomasWaldmann> in some time in the future, the actions will have to depend on the page mimetype
2007-08-04T23:41:55 <DrFrasierCrane> LOL I just thought of an idea
2007-08-04T23:42:04 <DrFrasierCrane> I have a Gecko control in Newton right?
2007-08-04T23:42:19 <grzywacz> Right. ;]
2007-08-04T23:42:23 <DrFrasierCrane> so why not just invoke load_url on it with localhost:8080 and here you have functional wiki
2007-08-04T23:42:37 <DrFrasierCrane> I just did and it look amazing
2007-08-04T23:42:42 <grzywacz> :D
2007-08-04T23:42:45 <grzywacz> Screenshot please. :)
2007-08-04T23:43:14 <DrFrasierCrane> but my goal is to create pluggable views so that user can have wiki pages displayed as sticky notes on desktop (yes, I want to have revision-controlled sticky notes)
2007-08-04T23:43:18 <DrFrasierCrane> i mean who doesn't? :D
2007-08-04T23:44:03 <DrFrasierCrane> screenshot - well it's just standalone MoinMoin loaded in PyGTK application
2007-08-04T23:44:07 <grzywacz> Ok, but then...
2007-08-04T23:44:19 <grzywacz> You have a moin process listening on a widely available port.
2007-08-04T23:44:22 <DrFrasierCrane> nothing complicated, but to think that I would have to implement all this things by myself..
2007-08-04T23:44:36 <DrFrasierCrane> i think it binds to localhost?
2007-08-04T23:44:44 <grzywacz> You can have other users on localhost as well.
2007-08-04T23:44:53 <DrFrasierCrane> hmm
2007-08-04T23:45:11 <DrFrasierCrane> yeah, that's something to think about
2007-08-04T23:45:18 <DrFrasierCrane> thanks for pointing that out
2007-08-04T23:45:21 <grzywacz> np:)
2007-08-04T23:54:48 <DrFrasierCrane> well
2007-08-04T23:54:55 <DrFrasierCrane> how about running MoinMoin as a service then ?
2007-08-04T23:55:01 <DrFrasierCrane> anyone tried that ?
2007-08-04T23:57:04 <DrFrasierCrane> also is it easy to customize MoinMoin's general layout?
2007-08-04T23:57:38 <DrFrasierCrane> I would want to hide all external links or open them in external firefox, because Newton is not a webbrowser after all :)
2007-08-04T23:59:48 <ThomasWaldmann> moin has themes for the non-content framework
MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2007-08-04 (last edited 2007-10-29 19:07:32 by localhost)
