MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2008-01-16

2008-01-16T00:37:37  * ThomasWaldmann created http://code.google.com/p/google-highly-open-participation-moinmoin/issues/detail?id=107
2008-01-16T09:37:47  <dreimark> xorAxAx: issue 100, do we want attachments uploaded to ActionMarket and link from other pages?
2008-01-16T09:38:03  <dreimark> and page Offers is not created, why do we need itß
2008-01-16T09:38:19  <dreimark> moin
2008-01-16T10:03:54  <xorAxAx> dreimark: you mean if they should appear on the subpage or the parent page?
2008-01-16T10:09:32  <dreimark> yes, I believe  newer plugins will be uploaded to the subpage
2008-01-16T10:10:02  <dreimark> may be  currently some plugins need to be duplicated
2008-01-16T10:10:51  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: surgeprotection is easily to trigger with searching and turning the results
2008-01-16T10:14:48  <xorAxAx> duplicated?
2008-01-16T10:14:59  <xorAxAx> well, doesnt it make sense to upload them to the subpage only?
2008-01-16T10:19:18  <ThomasWaldmann> moin
2008-01-16T10:20:33  * ThomasWaldmann would rather have preferred ActionMarket/1.x and /Wanted (no /Offers level)
2008-01-16T10:21:23  <xorAxAx> i didnt suggest an offers level
2008-01-16T10:21:52  <dreimark> xorAxAx: some plugins are not rewritten from 1.3 to 1.5 so there is only one file for both
2008-01-16T10:22:39  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, one can easily link to [[attachment:../whatever.py]] now
2008-01-16T10:22:44  <xorAxAx> dreimark: well, which part of the task says that one should create a page name based on the version? that doesnt make sense
2008-01-16T10:23:00  <xorAxAx> hmm, a bit maybe because you get automatic link generation
2008-01-16T10:23:08  <xorAxAx> but normally you want to care for all versions on one subpage
2008-01-16T10:23:38  <xorAxAx> so you could do the link generation part with a category or whatever
2008-01-16T10:23:54  * ThomasWaldmann finds it cleaner not to have non-working old crap on the same page as current (maintained) stuff
2008-01-16T10:24:09  <ThomasWaldmann> but that difference isn't easily decided
2008-01-16T10:24:15  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: you mean an older version on the same plugin?
2008-01-16T10:24:55  <ThomasWaldmann> i mean if someone runs current version and looks for plugin, he wants to know it if works or not, he doesnt want to try all himself
2008-01-16T10:25:57  <xorAxAx> yes, thats why you can write that onto the subpage whether it works
2008-01-16T10:26:15  <xorAxAx> and with which versions. and i might be wrong but people have been doing that sometimes :)
2008-01-16T10:26:23  <dreimark> I think a page named on the version is a good idea, but then the plugins should be attached to the subpage and not to the parent
2008-01-16T10:26:55  <dreimark> and someplugins are written on wikipages
2008-01-16T10:27:12  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, that discussion is a bit late :)
2008-01-16T10:27:28  <dreimark> yeah, we should have learned from the poster
2008-01-16T10:27:30  <xorAxAx> why late? the task doesnt say to create versioned subpages
2008-01-16T10:27:44  <xorAxAx> so its done incorrectly. or did i overlook it?
2008-01-16T10:28:34  <dreimark> you are right. it involves
2008-01-16T10:28:34  <dreimark> creating a subpage for every plugin listed on these pages, moving all
2008-01-16T10:28:34  <dreimark> information available, versions and attachments to it, and then
2008-01-16T10:28:35  <dreimark> listing it on the market page together with a short description.
2008-01-16T10:28:46  <xorAxAx> see
2008-01-16T10:29:05  <xorAxAx> all versions contradicts a subpage hierachy named like a version number
2008-01-16T10:29:08  <ThomasWaldmann> yeah, obcviously the student either didn't understand or wanted to improve
2008-01-16T10:30:08  <ThomasWaldmann> "once more, please" usually the english teachers say :D
2008-01-16T10:30:25  <dreimark> I think the version number pages can stay with a category search to list pages with plugins available for that version one is interested in
2008-01-16T10:32:57  <ThomasWaldmann> if attachments are divided into version pages, you have to do multiple uploads if a plugin support multiple versions
2008-01-16T10:33:28  <ThomasWaldmann> and sometimes the author does not even know which versions it supports, because he does not run current (or not old) versions
2008-01-16T10:33:56  <ThomasWaldmann> so we should just do it as written in the task
2008-01-16T10:34:07  <ThomasWaldmann> one page per plugin and version info on that page
2008-01-16T10:34:15  <dreimark> yes
2008-01-16T10:38:31  <ThomasWaldmann> we can think about how the toplevel page should look like
2008-01-16T10:39:17  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, he did all edits anonymously
2008-01-16T10:40:11  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, the accessibility tasks should tell more clearly what to do to not duplicate work already done
2008-01-16T10:40:55  <ThomasWaldmann> some of that stuff is in moin/1.6-accessibility branch and needs "just" to get extracted and cleanly committed to moin/1.7-accessibility
2008-01-16T12:29:01  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: 500 on MM
2008-01-16T13:52:37  <rafael> moin
2008-01-16T13:52:49  <rafael> what about the question i have already described yesterday here? the four possibilities to make a button "linkable"
2008-01-16T14:31:53  <ThomasWaldmann> rafael: if you work on the wiki task page and give its url, you make it easier for the mentors
2008-01-16T14:33:24  <ThomasWaldmann> (alternatively in the tracker)
2008-01-16T14:52:39  * ThomasWaldmann has invited all silverstripe translators to do some moin translation work
2008-01-16T14:56:48  <TheSheep> im in ur cms messn wit ur pages
2008-01-16T14:57:04  <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: I'm not sure moin needs a lolcat translation...
2008-01-16T14:58:13  <rafael> ThomasWaldmann: how to get the url of the current page the macro is executed in?
2008-01-16T14:58:37  <ThomasWaldmann> TheSheep: i didnt request that one :)
2008-01-16T14:58:51  <ThomasWaldmann> (but the esperanto one)
2008-01-16T14:59:09  <ThomasWaldmann> rafael: p.url() ?
2008-01-16T15:01:46  * TheSheep reads about job openings in silverstripe
2008-01-16T15:02:03  <ThomasWaldmann> (and I really hope students get mail when you post a comment to a closed task they did :)
2008-01-16T15:02:31  <TheSheep> "php programmer with excellent communication skills, experience with python, javascript, great design skills and css+html abilities, willing to work full time in an office with music playing all day"
2008-01-16T15:02:38  <TheSheep> heh. good luck
2008-01-16T15:03:12  <ThomasWaldmann> well, that bad thing is you'ld have to do php all day :X
2008-01-16T15:03:28  <TheSheep> why someone with python experience would ever want to touch php? :)
2008-01-16T15:04:26  <TheSheep> when a company is looking for programmers with great communication and social skills, then something smells...
2008-01-16T15:11:42  <rafael> ThomasWaldmann: updated 104. (working version)
2008-01-16T15:41:25  * ThomasWaldmann has invited all GHOP translators to do some moin translation work
2008-01-16T15:41:49  * ThomasWaldmann hopes they won't kill him :)
2008-01-16T15:42:32  <ninnnu> My friend actually just MSGd me and said "wow, new translation-stuff from SilveStripe... No, wait MoinMoin" :P
2008-01-16T15:43:01  <ThomasWaldmann> hehe :)
2008-01-16T15:43:07  <ThomasWaldmann> welcome back :)
2008-01-16T15:43:50  <ninnnu> Thanks, though...well, I don't think I'm going to do anything useful here :P
2008-01-16T15:45:05  <ThomasWaldmann> hmm? why?
2008-01-16T15:45:42  <TheSheep> ThomasWaldmann: mys students are translating help pages, but for some reason they don't want to do it on moinmaster...
2008-01-16T15:45:50  <ThomasWaldmann> translations are always useful. non-geek people understand it better. :)
2008-01-16T15:46:02  <ninnnu> School, and...just not on the mood ATM. :P
2008-01-16T15:46:10  <ninnnu> </excuses>
2008-01-16T15:46:27  <ThomasWaldmann> ah, ok. vacancies are over...
2008-01-16T15:46:36  <cb23> yes, it sucks :(
2008-01-16T15:47:30  <ninnnu> (It was quite funny that people sort-of expected that stutends would slow down a bit for the holiday-time... But no, opposite happened :D)
2008-01-16T15:47:46  <ninnnu> *students
2008-01-16T15:47:48  <ThomasWaldmann> i just thought I contact some people as suggested by sigured. often translators are not liking to do coding tasks, so I just thought to give some pointers to other translation stuff in case someone still misses a task...
2008-01-16T15:50:27  <kikka> wow, mysql wurde von sun gekauft.
2008-01-16T15:53:31  <ThomasWaldmann> rafael: you could add some docstring about the usage of your code
2008-01-16T15:54:08  <ThomasWaldmann> rafael: +            button = self.args.get('button', action)
2008-01-16T15:54:08  <ThomasWaldmann> +            if button == 'button':
2008-01-16T15:54:13  <ThomasWaldmann> can you explain?
2008-01-16T15:56:12  <rafael> ThomasWaldmann: yes. well, as i read in the source it's a temporary function. and button is an option, but in getArgs() self.args is a dict and so i don't need to modify it
2008-01-16T15:56:39  <rafael> i also could write a getOpts() method
2008-01-16T15:57:05  <ThomasWaldmann> how is your macro called, for example?
2008-01-16T15:57:46  <rafael> ThomasWaldmann: <<Action(raw, 'See raw source of the page', button)>>
2008-01-16T15:58:17  <ThomasWaldmann> ah, ok
2008-01-16T15:58:44  <ThomasWaldmann> +            button = self.args.get('button', action)
2008-01-16T15:58:51  <ThomasWaldmann> what is the sense of action there?
2008-01-16T15:59:42  <rafael> oh, that's unnecessary, you're right
2008-01-16T16:02:36  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe you want to change the if clause to read: if button is None: (and swap the code blocks below it)
2008-01-16T16:03:17  <ThomasWaldmann> so even specifying button=1 or button=foo or button=BUTTON would work
2008-01-16T16:04:04  <ThomasWaldmann> (dont forget the docstring)
2008-01-16T16:05:03  <ThomasWaldmann> patch is for 1.7?
2008-01-16T16:05:24  <rafael> i developed with 1.6, but i can port it to 1.7
2008-01-16T16:05:54  <ThomasWaldmann> don't forget to change the (c) header :)
2008-01-16T16:06:31  <ThomasWaldmann> 1.7 looks quite different. so if you do it anyway, submit both diffs :)
2008-01-16T16:08:37  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe also ask dreimark if that is what he intended :)
2008-01-16T16:13:27  <cb23> ThomasWaldmann, btw, what do things like page and PageEditor use to quote the wikiname for the filesystem?
2008-01-16T16:14:22  <cb23> in my script i'm using quoteWikinameFS, but when it runs on a nonlatin pagename, it decides to convert all the % into (25)
2008-01-16T16:24:11  <rafael> ThomasWaldmann: should i also add my email after my name in the (c)
2008-01-16T16:24:11  <rafael> ?
2008-01-16T16:30:07  <rafael> ThomasWaldmann: updated. http://code.google.com/p/google-highly-open-participation-moinmoin/issues/detail?id=104
2008-01-16T16:32:58  * dreimark looks later at home on 104 too
2008-01-16T16:34:13  <rafael> :-)
2008-01-16T16:44:26  <dreimark> cb23: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/21678/
2008-01-16T16:45:02  <cb23> dreimark, nice, thanks :)
2008-01-16T16:52:33  <dreimark> rafael: the first patch is for 1.7 ?
2008-01-16T16:53:16  <rafael> dreimark: yes, and the other with _1.6.diff for 1.6
2008-01-16T17:01:37  <ThomasWaldmann> rafael: i would link to my MoinMoin:UserName homepage and have a spam protected email there
2008-01-16T17:04:00  <rafael> alright. i reuploaded it
2008-01-16T17:11:25  <dreimark> bbl ~4h
2008-01-16T20:07:57  <cb23> dreimark, ping
2008-01-16T20:09:14  <rafael> re
2008-01-16T20:10:14  <rafael> ThomasWaldmann: are the current attachments ok? (task #104)
2008-01-16T20:26:50  <cb23> hmm, dreimark, even when using that method you gave me, it gives me the same file name that is too long
2008-01-16T20:53:03  * ThomasWaldmann is at LUG meeting
2008-01-16T20:56:54  <TheSheep> cool
2008-01-16T20:59:57  <cb23> permanent IRC connections ftw :)
2008-01-16T21:00:11  <TheSheep> screen ftw
2008-01-16T21:00:21  <cb23> indeed
2008-01-16T21:00:46  <cb23> cheap 5$ VPS ftw too :)
2008-01-16T21:01:13  <TheSheep> it's interesting how nobody actually implemented a similar thing for X
2008-01-16T21:01:20  <TheSheep> even though the protocol supports it
2008-01-16T21:10:47  <cb23> i thought of doing it - but i dont really have the memory on a small vps, nor the bandwidth on my home line
2008-01-16T21:10:54  <cb23> afaik there is nx
2008-01-16T21:11:19  <TheSheep> and vnc
2008-01-16T21:11:33  <TheSheep> but it could be done natively at the level of X
2008-01-16T21:12:40  <dreimark> cb23: pong
2008-01-16T21:13:08  <cb23> dreimark, did you see my message above? that function still returns the weird filename
2008-01-16T21:13:16  <dreimark> arrgh
2008-01-16T21:13:29  <cb23> indeed :(
2008-01-16T21:13:52  * dreimark reads Page.py
2008-01-16T21:16:00  <cb23> dreimark, what i'm thinking is maybe the pages are already encoded in some form
2008-01-16T21:19:59  <dreimark> cb23: I tried with a chines page, and the string shown by getPagePath() is the same as the one used on filesystem level
2008-01-16T21:20:48  <dreimark> http://moinmo.in/ChineseTranslation/CommonTerminology
2008-01-16T21:20:56  <dreimark> the first word
2008-01-16T21:22:58  <dreimark> fs name is (e794a8e8aa9ee79a84e4b8ade69687e7bfbbe8adaf)
2008-01-16T21:23:44  <dreimark> cb23: can you tell the pagename which does give this weird filename?
2008-01-16T21:25:14  <cb23> i'm looking for it now
2008-01-16T21:27:33  <cb23> dreimark, well, it doesnt exist
2008-01-16T21:27:41  <cb23> at least according to http://moinmo.in/%D0%94%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%96%D0%B4%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%92%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F/%D0%91%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%92%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F
2008-01-16T21:28:25  <cb23> and apparently nothing links to it too
2008-01-16T21:29:09  <cb23> dreimark, what im thinking is that Page.py has some magic in it that detects that that long string is some different encoding or something, and acts accordingly
2008-01-16T21:39:31  <dreimark> cb23: what gives ls  "wiki/data/pages/(c3a8c2ad)"
2008-01-16T21:42:19  <dreimark> for me it gives only a page dir whith missing content
2008-01-16T21:42:56  * dreimark fetches a fresh clone
2008-01-16T21:53:48  <dreimark> cb23: the right string is moin-1.6/wiki/underlay/pages/(d094d0bed0b2d196d0b4d0bad0b0d092d181d182d0b0d0bdd0bed0b2d0bbd0b5d0bdd0bdd18f2fd091d0b0d0b7d0bed0b2d0b5d092d181d182d0b0d0bdd0bed0b2d0bbd0b5d0bdd0bdd18f)"
2008-01-16T21:55:27  <dreimark> this page exists in underlay
2008-01-16T22:00:37  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: why did you close #65?
2008-01-16T22:00:47  <xorAxAx> IMHO the student hasnt done anything useful
2008-01-16T22:01:06  <xorAxAx> that could allow us to close the task
2008-01-16T22:05:04  <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: he installed a wiki and made a presentation about it
2008-01-16T22:05:25  <ThomasWaldmann> the dumb thing on our side is not requiring a public wiki
2008-01-16T22:05:39  <xorAxAx> ???
2008-01-16T22:05:44  <xorAxAx> of course - the task requires that
2008-01-16T22:05:58  <ThomasWaldmann> and the dumb other thing is that you can't access a school server while there are vacations
2008-01-16T22:06:11  <xorAxAx> well, thats his issue
2008-01-16T22:06:23  <xorAxAx> the point was to introduce moin into the school
2008-01-16T22:06:43  <ThomasWaldmann> it doesnt require access from outside
2008-01-16T22:06:45  <xorAxAx> of course this leads to the problem that the task cant be claimed by people who are on vacations
2008-01-16T22:07:10  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: he neither succeeded to allow access from the school nor from outside
2008-01-16T22:07:15  <xorAxAx> so he failed with the primary objective
2008-01-16T22:07:19  <xorAxAx> and therefore with the task
2008-01-16T22:07:24  <ThomasWaldmann> yeah, and usually you have vacations at this time
2008-01-16T22:07:38  <xorAxAx> not from beginning of nov till end of january
2008-01-16T22:08:37  <ThomasWaldmann> I didn't feel comfortable when closing this (mostly due to some other reasons), but just failing him is also a bit unfair.
2008-01-16T22:10:24  <ThomasWaldmann> (he should not have claimed it, but we maybe just should not give him this task at this time. 28.12. - early Jan is usually vacations, everywhere.
2008-01-16T22:10:53  <xorAxAx> we have to give him the task :)
2008-01-16T22:11:03  <ThomasWaldmann> also, creating tasks that required 3rd party permission to be completed is also a problem.
2008-01-16T22:11:10  <dreimark> xorAxAx: ThomasWaldmann that page of line 20:34 < cb23> gives a really long fs page string see 21:00 < dreima
2008-01-16T22:11:27  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: that task doesnt really need third-party permissions
2008-01-16T22:11:32  <xorAxAx> thats why it says "and/or"
2008-01-16T22:11:35  <ThomasWaldmann> sure it does
2008-01-16T22:11:40  <xorAxAx> where?
2008-01-16T22:11:55  <ThomasWaldmann> by installing it on a server at school
2008-01-16T22:12:01  <xorAxAx> it doesnt require that
2008-01-16T22:12:31  <dreimark> hmm, depends on restrictions in a school environment
2008-01-16T22:12:35  <ThomasWaldmann> well, if it is not a school's server, you need an own server. also not that great as requirement for pupils.
2008-01-16T22:12:46  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: there are enough free hosting services
2008-01-16T22:12:59  <xorAxAx> and no, this doesnt imply that you need your own server
2008-01-16T22:13:11  <ThomasWaldmann> not that many where you can install moin
2008-01-16T22:13:24  <xorAxAx> enough :)
2008-01-16T22:13:27  <ThomasWaldmann> (or allowed to install moin)
2008-01-16T22:13:58  <xorAxAx> dreimark: well, did he/you compare what the type of the argument to the escaping function is?
2008-01-16T22:14:00  <ThomasWaldmann> well, to make a long discussion short: feel free to fail him. then you have the honour of managing this with him (and google).
2008-01-16T22:14:23  <xorAxAx> i see a problem because you already closed the task
2008-01-16T22:14:35  <xorAxAx> and that actually would be unfair
2008-01-16T22:14:50  <xorAxAx> i wouldnt have seen a problem in case the task was still open
2008-01-16T22:15:00  <dreimark> xorAxAx: print Page(request, pagename).getPagePath() gives that result and this pagedir exists
2008-01-16T22:15:09  <xorAxAx> dreimark: so?
2008-01-16T22:15:12  <ThomasWaldmann> xorAxAx: so what are we discussing about then?
2008-01-16T22:15:30  <xorAxAx> ThomasWaldmann: that you should think/talk a bit more before doing it next time
2008-01-16T22:15:44  <ThomasWaldmann> i discussed it with dreimark
2008-01-16T22:15:56  <ThomasWaldmann> and we agreed on doing it that way
2008-01-16T22:16:33  <xorAxAx> lets see whether the second task of this sort will be claimed in the next days
2008-01-16T22:17:13  <xorAxAx> cb23: ping
2008-01-16T22:17:24  <dreimark> xorAxAx: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/21722/
2008-01-16T22:17:50  <xorAxAx> dreimark: yes, what do i learn from that?
2008-01-16T22:19:03  <dreimark> xorAxAx: that's the page we are speaking about
2008-01-16T22:19:32  <dreimark> I can't type cyrrilic here
2008-01-16T22:20:19  <xorAxAx> yes, whats the problem of that page?
2008-01-16T22:20:35  <dreimark> (d094d0bed0b2d196d0b4d0bad0b0d092d181d182d0b0d0bdd0bed0b2d0bbd0b5d0bdd0bdd18f2fd091d0b0d0b7d0bed0b2d0b5d092d181d182d0b0d0bdd0bed0b2d0bbd0b5d0bdd0bdd18f)
2008-01-16T22:20:46  <xorAxAx> the length of the directory name?
2008-01-16T22:20:52  <dreimark> yep
2008-01-16T22:20:58  <xorAxAx> thats 150 chars
2008-01-16T22:21:06  <xorAxAx> still far away from 250
2008-01-16T22:21:21  <dreimark> yep, waiting for cb23
2008-01-16T22:23:26  <dreimark> hierarchical pages in cyrrilic can become complicated
2008-01-16T22:29:56  <ThomasWaldmann> http://moinmo.in/4ct10n/info/MoinMoinBugs/ModPyConnectionErrors is there anything left for ghop or do we just close that?
2008-01-16T22:31:29  <ThomasWaldmann> "If some operation in our request code for mod_py fails, the exception is neither delivered to log nor to browser. "
2008-01-16T22:31:40  <ThomasWaldmann> it seems to be just that to be checked/fixed.
2008-01-16T22:32:19  <ThomasWaldmann> someone using mod_python here?
2008-01-16T22:43:08  <dreimark> I think this is fixed, because if not I would have heard something about it from a colleague using mod_py
2008-01-16T22:45:55  <xorAxAx> dreimark: #105 needs a review
2008-01-16T22:47:36  <dreimark> doing
2008-01-16T23:07:09  * dreimark comments 105
2008-01-16T23:13:59  <CIA-35> Reimar Bauer <rb.proj AT googlemail DOT com> default * 2500:4f1d66a575a0 1.6/MoinMoin/ (action/supplementation.py theme/__init__.py): bug fix for 1.6.0SupplementationAndAccessRights (thanks to Boleslaw Kulbabinski)
2008-01-16T23:30:14  <dreimark> http://moinmo.in/EasyToDo/PortOldPlugins
2008-01-16T23:34:12  <xorAxAx> the ghop podcast is nice
2008-01-16T23:34:25  <xorAxAx> http://googlesummerofcode.blogspot.com/2008/01/meet-your-mentors-women-in-open-source.html
2008-01-16T23:49:51  <dreimark> bbl