MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2008-08-29

2008-08-29T09:47:37  <dreimark> moin
2008-08-29T10:04:53  <byeongweon_t60> moin
2008-08-29T11:08:58  <rubyonrails> Hi can you help me in configuring moin moin on FreeBSD?
2008-08-29T11:10:18  <ThomasWaldmann> rubyonrails: ask concrete questions on #moin
2008-08-29T11:10:42  <rubyonrails> no body is replying on that group
2008-08-29T11:11:02  <rubyonrails> sorry to bother you .. but can you please help
2008-08-29T11:12:18  <ThomasWaldmann> rubyonrails: ask concrete questions on #moin
2008-08-29T11:13:10  <rubyonrails> what do you mean by concrete ..
2008-08-29T11:13:23  <rubyonrails> I have installed it
2008-08-29T11:13:45  <rubyonrails> but I don't know how to configure it
2008-08-29T11:14:01  <rubyonrails> I have created a instance of that alos
2008-08-29T11:14:07  <rubyonrails> make MOINTYPE=FCGI MOINDEST=/usr/local/www/wiki instance
2008-08-29T11:14:28  <ThomasWaldmann> rubyonrails: this channel is for moin core development questions
2008-08-29T11:14:45  <dreimark> rubyonrails: you qon't get an answer here, this channel is for development and not for support
2008-08-29T11:14:49  <dreimark> please use #moin
2008-08-29T11:15:49  <dreimark> and be patient we do have some other work too
2008-08-29T11:16:21  <rubyonrails> the time you have wasted in saying this if utilized then upto now I have got the answer ... may be I can start developing in it .. if I find it useful and interesting ..
2008-08-29T11:16:50  <dreimark> rubyonrails: no this is all logged and we don't want to waste time in reading later
2008-08-29T11:17:50  <rubyonrails> I am also no idle man .. don't you want people use what you have developed.. you have developed such a nice product which is highly portable and user friendly ..
2008-08-29T11:18:01  <rubyonrails> any way if you don't want its ok..
2008-08-29T11:18:04  <rubyonrails> thanks
2008-08-29T11:20:54  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe just accept that you are on the wrong channel for that sort of questions
2008-08-29T11:21:10  <ThomasWaldmann> and as you left #moin, we can't talk to you there
2008-08-29T13:25:54  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: eeek
2008-08-29T13:26:04  <dennda> that was probably one of the worst films I have ever seen
2008-08-29T13:27:24  <dennda> http://xkcd.com/107/
2008-08-29T13:29:40  <zenhase> moin
2008-08-29T13:34:22  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: that was just in response to that rubyonrails guy :)
2008-08-29T13:34:40  <dennda> yah sometimes people tend to be a bit difficult
2008-08-29T13:45:34  <ThomasWaldmann> (and I found that film somewhat amusingly trashy :)
2008-08-29T13:46:39  * zenhase did never see it
2008-08-29T13:47:00  <zenhase> everybody told me that i will regret spending time of my life watching it :)
2008-08-29T13:47:34  <zenhase> hmm, in 2.5hrs i will once again visit my parents in cologne
2008-08-29T13:48:53  <zenhase> ThomasWaldmann: is everything okay with my survey so far?
2008-08-29T13:49:12  <dennda> it's multiple choice mostly :-P
2008-08-29T13:49:39  <zenhase> dennda: yeah, was more refering to the 'elaborate ... (required)' stuff ;)
2008-08-29T13:49:44  <dennda> but you are right, it's better to make sure. deadline is approaching
2008-08-29T13:50:02  <dennda> I actually think google is more interested in it than ThomasWaldmann
2008-08-29T13:52:24  <zenhase> yeah
2008-08-29T13:53:37  <zenhase> i really need to get a break. heads kind of spinning, i should be working on a study thesis and i think i need a real vacation soon :)
2008-08-29T13:53:48  <ThomasWaldmann> zenhase: yes, q8 is very strange. especially since google itself tells about "main summer task".
2008-08-29T13:54:14  <zenhase> ThomasWaldmann: it's the time-spent-question?
2008-08-29T13:54:44  <ThomasWaldmann> yes
2008-08-29T13:54:52  <ThomasWaldmann> also q3 misses some option
2008-08-29T13:55:08  <dennda> hey while you are at it, if you want you can proofread my evaluation too :-)
2008-08-29T13:55:19  <dennda> ah you didn't do that
2008-08-29T13:55:20  <dennda> nevermind
2008-08-29T13:56:18  <zenhase> dennda: are you going on a vacation too before university starts again? :)
2008-08-29T13:56:55  <dennda> zenhase: I'd like to but I guess I need to find a hot chick willing to go on vacation first
2008-08-29T13:57:07  <zenhase> dennda: oO
2008-08-29T13:57:14  <dennda> what?
2008-08-29T13:57:39  <zenhase> dennda: in case you didn't know: it's not necessary for a relaxing vacation to involve relationships ;)
2008-08-29T13:57:42  <dennda> I am not going to pay ballerman a visit
2008-08-29T13:58:05  <dennda> I am not necessarily talking of relationships %-)
2008-08-29T13:58:15  <zenhase> well, then follow my lead ... i guess i will try to super-last-minute to greece/kreta
2008-08-29T13:59:19  <dennda> good luck
2008-08-29T13:59:20  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: q2/q3 maybe should reflect more what you put into q2 comment
2008-08-29T14:00:11  <zenhase> need to get away from this town for 2 weeks or so. october i start teaching little scared first semester students the basics of theoretical computer science
2008-08-29T14:00:28  <dennda> oh fun
2008-08-29T14:01:17  <zenhase> fun and profit ;)
2008-08-29T14:01:31  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: I was not too sure whether they care about technical details of my task there
2008-08-29T14:01:32  <zenhase> but yes, i am eager to work on my teaching skills
2008-08-29T14:02:14  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: maybe it gets less contradictory if you move both crosses one item down
2008-08-29T14:03:26  <dennda> ThomasWaldmann: Do you feel that reflects reality better? Oo
2008-08-29T14:03:26  <ThomasWaldmann> (because that dropping of ACL/SQL/.../getting stuff "production ready" was a revision of goals)
2008-08-29T14:03:33  <dennda> Especially the second cross
2008-08-29T14:03:52  * ThomasWaldmann is not too happy with those multiple choice options
2008-08-29T14:04:09  <dennda> With my choices or the options in general?
2008-08-29T14:06:08  <ThomasWaldmann> in general
2008-08-29T14:06:47  <ThomasWaldmann> well, if one reads them strictly, "at lest 75% of revised goals" includes "100% of revised goals"
2008-08-29T14:07:08  <dennda> well I think in that case you'd go for the latter option :-)
2008-08-29T14:07:12  <ThomasWaldmann> so if you didn't complete all original goals, you have no other option than to cross that one
2008-08-29T14:07:37  <zenhase> yeah
2008-08-29T14:07:43  <zenhase> that was my problem with the question too
2008-08-29T14:07:48  <dennda> then why does question 2 have a dedicated option for that? (applying your logic)
2008-08-29T14:08:08  <dennda> everyone has had that problem. I saw at least 5 people complain about that
2008-08-29T14:08:17  <xorAxAx> because not everybody is fit in set logic :)
2008-08-29T14:08:24  <ThomasWaldmann> (maybe it would've been a bit more attractive as option if they would've offered a "i completed all revised goals")
2008-08-29T14:08:31  <dennda> yes
2008-08-29T14:08:48  <dennda> I suggested that on #gsoc, but of course they didn't change it as some already completed their surveys
2008-08-29T14:09:50  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: so for q2 it is either 2 or 3, for q3 i think it is definitely 2 (or it will contradict with your comments).
2008-08-29T14:16:19  <ThomasWaldmann> bbl
2008-08-29T16:30:09  <dreimark> bbl
2008-08-29T17:07:06  <ThomasWaldmann> re
2008-08-29T17:25:41  * ThomasWaldmann received a interview request from Data Becker
2008-08-29T17:26:06  <dennda> Oo
2008-08-29T17:26:35  <dennda> I somehow link that name to PEARL
2008-08-29T17:27:05  <ThomasWaldmann> why that?
2008-08-29T17:27:29  <dennda> because that's the only catalogue where I ever read their name
2008-08-29T17:27:57  <dennda> but actually their page looks somewhat better
2008-08-29T17:28:23  <dennda> What kind of interview?
2008-08-29T17:28:27  * ThomasWaldmann didn't read any of their stuff in the last years. I remember their stuff from loooong ago, though.
2008-08-29T17:28:42  <ThomasWaldmann> for their "OpenSource" magazine
2008-08-29T17:29:01  <ThomasWaldmann> looks like they have some pages to fill :)
2008-08-29T17:34:27  <dennda> you finally get famous
2008-08-29T17:34:33  <dennda> hollywood, prepare!
2008-08-29T17:35:25  <ThomasWaldmann> pfff
2008-08-29T17:42:44  <dennda> :-)
2008-08-29T17:44:18  <ThomasWaldmann> they tell on their webpage that they print 60420pcs (who reads that? :)
2008-08-29T17:45:22  <dennda> I don't even know what that is
2008-08-29T17:46:02  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe I better read that publication at the kiosk before :)
2008-08-29T17:46:43  <ThomasWaldmann> http://media.pcpraxis.de/content/view/64/196/ < that frontpage looks not very promising
2008-08-29T17:48:06  <dennda> no it doesn't, but I have seen worse
2008-08-29T17:48:30  <dennda> "666 teuflisch geheime Tricks die Microsoft nicht verraten will"
2008-08-29T17:48:33  <dennda> o.ae.
2008-08-29T17:48:53  <ThomasWaldmann> how to accelerate your windows ...
2008-08-29T17:49:06  <ThomasWaldmann> at 9.81m/s^2
2008-08-29T17:49:27  <dennda> I see quite a few *buntu logos down there
2008-08-29T19:01:17  <ThomasWaldmann>  # Apache with mod_wsgi (see TracModWSGI)
2008-08-29T19:01:19  <ThomasWaldmann> * This should work with Apache 1.3, 2.0 or 2.2 and promises to deliver more performance than using mod_python. A little less mature than mod_python.
2008-08-29T19:01:29  <ThomasWaldmann> (from trac docs :)
2008-08-29T19:02:38  <dennda> when was that written?
2008-08-29T19:03:15  <ThomasWaldmann> 2008-05
2008-08-29T19:03:55  <dennda> .oO(?)
2008-08-29T20:52:07  <CIA-25> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4913:4636a867fc04 1.8-storage/MoinMoin/storage/backends/ (fileserver.py acl.py router.py): added acl and router backend, some comments for filesystem backend (all of them needing more work)
2008-08-29T20:52:08  <CIA-25> Thomas Waldmann <tw AT waldmann-edv DOT de> default * 4914:a4b3ba07b414 1.8-storage/ (5 files in 4 dirs): merge storage repo
2008-08-29T20:52:34  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: ^^
2008-08-29T20:53:17  <ThomasWaldmann> the acl stuff can still wait a bit, but that router backend would be useful for developping other backends, too
2008-08-29T20:54:38  <ThomasWaldmann> one of the main obstacles (in the current implementation), is that an item of a backend not mounted on / does not know its real item name
2008-08-29T20:54:54  <ThomasWaldmann> johill noted that the items need to be wrapped
2008-08-29T20:55:11  <dennda> that is correct
2008-08-29T20:55:26  <ThomasWaldmann> the wrapper can fix the item name, and even support renames later
2008-08-29T20:55:53  <TheSheep> a separate "renaming backend"?
2008-08-29T20:57:03  <ThomasWaldmann> TheSheep: hm? why? rename is part of backend api.
2008-08-29T20:57:46  <ThomasWaldmann> and for the beginning, the router backend can just raise some NotImplementedError
2008-08-29T20:58:00  <dennda> the layerbackend needs to do more wrapping, too
2008-08-29T20:58:14  <dennda> otherwise you can do read_only_item.backend.create_item() :-)
2008-08-29T20:59:48  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: btw, what do you think, should we maybe have a different package structure below storage?
2008-08-29T21:00:02  <dennda> propose one
2008-08-29T21:00:06  <dennda> by the way
2008-08-29T21:00:12  <dennda> NoMatchingBackendException
2008-08-29T21:00:14  <dennda> ?
2008-08-29T21:00:21  <dennda> who is going to catch that
2008-08-29T21:00:32  <ThomasWaldmann> we have real backends, really storing stuff somehow
2008-08-29T21:00:51  <dennda> why not NoSuchItemError instead?
2008-08-29T21:00:57  <ThomasWaldmann> we have middleware backends, just intercepting calls and doing some stuff (acl, router, ...)
2008-08-29T21:01:34  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: that exception should never happen, just if you misconfigure stuff
2008-08-29T21:01:46  <ThomasWaldmann> it is like having linux without root fs
2008-08-29T21:01:53  <dennda> assert False looks better to me then
2008-08-29T21:02:21  <dennda> I agree that such a package structure would clear things up a bit
2008-08-29T21:03:02  <ThomasWaldmann> just searching for good names...
2008-08-29T21:03:40  <ThomasWaldmann> "real" "middleware" ?
2008-08-29T21:03:55  <ThomasWaldmann> (is middleware unreal? :)
2008-08-29T21:04:22  <dennda> persistent, meta,
2008-08-29T21:04:37  <dennda> or final, meta
2008-08-29T21:05:07  <ThomasWaldmann> meta is maybe confusing (see metadata)
2008-08-29T21:05:45  <ThomasWaldmann> and if we have persistent and meta, where is your memory backend?
2008-08-29T21:05:45  <dennda> metabackends, finalbackends :-)
2008-08-29T21:06:09  <dennda> yes the term for that _("liegt mir auf der zunge")
2008-08-29T21:06:23  <ThomasWaldmann> persistent and special maybe?
2008-08-29T21:06:48  <dennda> or super
2008-08-29T21:07:07  <dennda> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super
2008-08-29T21:07:09  <ThomasWaldmann> normal and super? :))
2008-08-29T21:07:22  <dennda> inetd is a super-server
2008-08-29T21:08:05  <ThomasWaldmann> wsgi talks of middlewares in such a context
2008-08-29T21:08:12  <dennda> yes
2008-08-29T21:08:26  <dennda> it's just so much to type %-)
2008-08-29T21:09:13  <ThomasWaldmann> storage.persistence and storage.middleware ?
2008-08-29T21:09:37  <ThomasWaldmann> and storage.special for memory?
2008-08-29T21:10:11  <ThomasWaldmann> otoh, is it our fault if people don't have nvram? :P
2008-08-29T21:10:23  <dennda> well that's depending on how you define persistency
2008-08-29T21:11:02  <dennda> if it's just the memorybackend that is somewhat lossy when the power button is switched to OFF, I'd rather not create a new folder for that but keep it with the others
2008-08-29T21:11:20  <ThomasWaldmann> it was persistent. until the power was interrupted ...
2008-08-29T21:11:24  <dennda> yes
2008-08-29T21:12:01  <ThomasWaldmann> but: if you terminate the process, it is also gone.
2008-08-29T21:12:02  <dennda> we can't influence that
2008-08-29T21:12:16  <dennda> hm true
2008-08-29T21:12:58  <dennda> if you terminate the database, ...
2008-08-29T21:13:01  <dennda> :-)
2008-08-29T21:15:03  <ThomasWaldmann> otoh, if we have persistence.memory, some idiot will use it for production
2008-08-29T21:15:04  <dennda> actually I still think it should be NoSuchItemError
2008-08-29T21:15:55  <ThomasWaldmann> gtg/brb
2008-08-29T22:14:46  <ThomasWaldmann> re
2008-08-29T22:21:54  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: you do the reorg?
2008-08-29T22:29:31  <dennda> the what?
2008-08-29T22:46:34  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: the storage package reorg
2008-08-29T22:46:51  <dennda> reorg as in reorganization? :-)
2008-08-29T22:46:59  <ThomasWaldmann> yes
2008-08-29T22:47:05  <dennda> ok remind me tomorrow please