MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2009-05-23

2009-05-23T01:38:30  *** grzywacz has quit IRC
2009-05-23T08:31:39  <dimazest> moin
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2009-05-23T10:51:39  <dreimark> moin
2009-05-23T10:52:10  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: ThemeMarket triggers surge_protection
2009-05-23T11:18:10  <dimazest> hi
2009-05-23T11:18:24  <dimazest> is iteration over group is critical
2009-05-23T11:19:01  <dimazest> i mean, will someone ask 'give me all items of grouo SomeGroup'
2009-05-23T11:19:24  <dimazest> or the main function is 'is SomeItem in SomeGroup'?
2009-05-23T11:40:50  <ThomasWaldmann> dimazest: the memberlist should be implemented, but it should not be used by the membercheck
2009-05-23T11:41:40  <dimazest> ok, to avoid first selection of 100000 items and then just a check
2009-05-23T11:41:43  <ThomasWaldmann> (or at least, that behaviour should be defineable in the backend)
2009-05-23T11:46:28  <ThomasWaldmann> and i think you might find that adding members to a group is a rather internal thing
2009-05-23T11:47:29  <dimazest> what do you mean by internal thing?
2009-05-23T11:48:28  <ThomasWaldmann> well, you can't really add group members by this (permanently). this is only used internally to expand groups-in-groups
2009-05-23T11:49:32  <ThomasWaldmann> and the group backends will have just read-only access to the group data storage in most or all cases
2009-05-23T11:50:17  <dimazest> so, addition is needed to expanding group
2009-05-23T11:51:03  <dimazest> then really what is expected from group is __contains__(self, item) and __iter__(self)
2009-05-23T11:51:11  <ThomasWaldmann> that is an internal implementation details, not api
2009-05-23T11:51:31  <ThomasWaldmann> yes
2009-05-23T11:53:04  * dimazest just curious is it possible to write a comment for the already saved revision?
2009-05-23T11:54:21  <ThomasWaldmann> you are talking of new storage?
2009-05-23T11:56:03  <dimazest> not just now at moinmo.in
2009-05-23T11:56:27  <dimazest> by mistake i pressed save, not preview
2009-05-23T11:57:00  <dimazest> and that revision was full of changes, so it would be nice to have some comment
2009-05-23T11:58:09  <dimazest> so, since group is something immutable it better to use frozenset not set
2009-05-23T12:00:48  <dimazest> ant __iter__ and __contains__ must care about subgroups and expand group if needed
2009-05-23T12:12:38  <ThomasWaldmann> no, you can't modify history
2009-05-23T12:14:33  <ThomasWaldmann> be aware that by using set, you'll lose order
2009-05-23T12:22:00  <ThomasWaldmann> dimazest: btw, if you mean rdBms, please fix your typo yourself
2009-05-23T12:22:38  <dimazest> ThomasWaldmann: is order important?
2009-05-23T12:23:33  <ThomasWaldmann> for ACLs it obviously isn't
2009-05-23T12:23:51  <ThomasWaldmann> (== for groups)
2009-05-23T12:24:07  <ThomasWaldmann> for dicts likely also not important
2009-05-23T12:24:32  <ThomasWaldmann> but the group definition pages in the wiki are lists, so they currently have order
2009-05-23T12:24:59  <ThomasWaldmann> I am not sure whether we rely somewhere on order, you have to check while refactoring the code
2009-05-23T12:25:37  <dimazest> "Group is something which stores items. Items are either unicode strings or optionally other groups to define subgroups. Groups are immutable. "
2009-05-23T12:25:49  <dimazest> is better definition
2009-05-23T12:26:26  <dimazest> ?
2009-05-23T12:26:31  <ThomasWaldmann> ?
2009-05-23T12:28:32  <dimazest> for WikiPages, group object is a list of items, or better tuple
2009-05-23T12:29:03  <dimazest> for database it is set (since there is no order in relations)
2009-05-23T12:29:40  <dimazest> and we do not ask for order, we need iterator and containment check
2009-05-23T12:30:10  <ThomasWaldmann> you can start without order and add it when needed
2009-05-23T12:30:22  * dreimark uses sort all the time
2009-05-23T12:30:38  <ThomasWaldmann> sort is different from given order
2009-05-23T12:31:17  <ThomasWaldmann> just imagine someone using a group/dict page for a sidebar of a theme
2009-05-23T12:31:39  <dreimark> true
2009-05-23T12:31:48  <dreimark> htg bbl
2009-05-23T12:32:32  <ThomasWaldmann> "The term item is preferred to the member to show that groups are made up by anything not only members. "
2009-05-23T12:33:39  <ThomasWaldmann> in the light of new storage and "storage items" (and also high level items in moin/2.0-storage), it would be less confusing NOT to speak of items here.
2009-05-23T12:34:06  <ThomasWaldmann> if you need a definition, how about this:
2009-05-23T12:35:44  <ThomasWaldmann> a group has members, a member can be either some arbitrary entity name (unicode string) or a name of another group (also a unicode string)
2009-05-23T12:40:23  <dimazest> ThomasWaldmann: what about element instead of item
2009-05-23T12:42:13  <dimazest> but member is fine to
2009-05-23T12:43:35  <dimazest> and do we need to get member's groups
2009-05-23T12:46:05  <ThomasWaldmann> iirc, not yet
2009-05-23T15:47:54  <dreimark> re
2009-05-23T15:50:20  <dreimark> dimazest: ThomasWaldmann do user browser needs get member's groups
2009-05-23T15:52:10  <dimazest> dreimark: what do you think what to uese member, item or element?
2009-05-23T15:54:04  <dreimark>  not item that makes understanding storage difficult
2009-05-23T15:54:22  <dimazest> then member
2009-05-23T15:54:45  * dimazest needs to update wikipage
2009-05-23T15:55:14  <dreimark> ThomasWaldmann: definition sounds good
2009-05-23T15:57:26  <dreimark> userform.admin.do_user_browser needs get member's groups
2009-05-23T15:57:44  <dreimark> and some of the UserList addns
2009-05-23T15:57:51  <dreimark> +o
2009-05-23T16:02:49  <dimazest> i'll add item_groups method to api
2009-05-23T16:02:57  <dimazest> or better member_groups
2009-05-23T17:36:39  <dimazest> ThomasWaldmann: could you make repository dedicated to groups?
2009-05-23T17:36:55  <dimazest> or i can use one on my server
2009-05-23T18:01:34  <ThomasWaldmann> i'll soon create repos for all students on hg.moinmo.in
2009-05-23T18:18:30  <dimazest> tahnks
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2009-05-23T20:59:04  <dennda> please base mine on 1.9-storage
2009-05-23T22:57:31  <dreimark> dimazest: ThomasWaldmann set makes a list with uniq members. the sidebar example is an edge case. if one like to have separators that won't work
2009-05-23T22:58:16  <dreimark> * ----\n * RecentChanges\n * ---- ...
2009-05-23T23:06:15  <ThomasWaldmann> today is start of coding phase btw
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2009-05-23T23:14:10  <ThomasWaldmann> dennda: you can just use 1.9-storage directly
2009-05-23T23:15:08  <ThomasWaldmann> dimazest: you will use moin/1.9 repo as base for your work?
2009-05-23T23:15:53  <ThomasWaldmann> devilsadvocate: how about you?
2009-05-23T23:17:21  <ThomasWaldmann> waldi: same question for amartani and you
2009-05-23T23:18:02  <waldi> ThomasWaldmann: we decided to use 1.9-storage
2009-05-23T23:18:34  <ThomasWaldmann> hmm, why?
2009-05-23T23:18:58  <ThomasWaldmann> you want to work with old editor code?
2009-05-23T23:19:28  <ThomasWaldmann> (then you could also use moin/1.9 as base)
2009-05-23T23:21:07  <waldi> ups. we did not agree yet. will talk to him
2009-05-23T23:22:04  <waldi> he needs to talk to the storage somehow
2009-05-23T23:24:17  <waldi> okay. what possibilities do we have? moin/1.9 and moin/1.9-storage?
2009-05-23T23:33:39  <ThomasWaldmann> or 2.0-storage (that's less stable, but easier to grasp IMHO)