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   5 2012-07-31T04:22:29  <xiaq> waldi: please comment on my comment on http://codereview.appspot.com/6453060/patch/11001/12001
   6 2012-07-31T04:29:03  <xiaq> spy: i'm looking at rebased metadata editor. you are already merging my changeset :) i'll merge yours today and hopefully i'll send a pull request to Thomas asap.
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  10 2012-07-31T07:59:05  <dreimark> moin
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  12 2012-07-31T10:21:59  <ThomasWaldmann> moin
  13 2012-07-31T10:35:54  <spy> ThomasWaldmann: sent a pull request to the main repo
  14 2012-07-31T10:45:33  <spy> about search in subitems, it is more flexible to have an ability to choose whether to perform the global search or search in this item and subitems on arbitrary item (not only on a blog page). Do we want to have a drop-down menu in the header search widget where could be placed   [x] this item and subitems   checkbox?
  15 2012-07-31T10:46:26  <dreimark> spy: that sounds good
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  17 2012-07-31T10:54:16  <ThomasWaldmann> spy: yes for the generalized approach, but make sure the scope is visible without doing extra clicks for any search you want to do
  18 2012-07-31T10:55:38  <ThomasWaldmann> like with placeholder text in the query field and scope needs to be settable by template/code so it makes most sense for that specific view
  19 2012-07-31T11:10:10  <spy> ThomasWaldmann: do you suggest not to hide this advanced option and to keep it visible all the time?
  20 2012-07-31T11:10:19  <waldi> xiaq: please do patches that change _one_ thing, not multiple
  21 2012-07-31T11:11:30  <waldi> xiaq: and actually describe what you want to change
  22 2012-07-31T11:24:48  <spy> dreimark: ThomasWaldmann: http://vps.psviderski.name:8080/%2Bblog/myblog  visible checkbox looks a bit ugly, doesn't it?
  23 2012-07-31T11:31:20  <ThomasWaldmann> MaikuMori: eSyr-ng: eSyr: last public changeset in repo is from 11d ago and i don't see a codereview linked from diary either
  24 2012-07-31T11:33:54  <ThomasWaldmann> spy: http://vps.psviderski.name:8080/%2Bmodify/myblog i see a data_text key in the metadata json there
  25 2012-07-31T11:34:11  <ThomasWaldmann> and also a submit key :)
  26 2012-07-31T11:37:05  <spy> ThomasWaldmann: it is left from the old implementation, new items work well
  27 2012-07-31T11:41:56  <ThomasWaldmann> spy: http://codereview.appspot.com/6420063/ review done
  28 2012-07-31T11:42:53  <ThomasWaldmann> about this trailing slashes, i think i already mentioned that you have to consider Foo also being a prefix of FooBar, but FooBar is not a subitem of Foo
  29 2012-07-31T11:43:13  <ThomasWaldmann> so you need to prefix search for Foo/
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  32 2012-07-31T11:44:40  <ThomasWaldmann> and if there are cases where you need to "find" Foo also, you need name_exact == "Foo" or prefix(name_exact, "Foo/")
  33 2012-07-31T11:46:37  <spy> ThomasWaldmann: yes, I remember your remark, right now I want to determine the usability
  34 2012-07-31T11:47:02  <spy> and then when it is clear how it should be I'll fix issues
  35 2012-07-31T11:47:07  <ThomasWaldmann> you need to at least at a todo as this is a lurking bug
  36 2012-07-31T11:47:17  <ThomasWaldmann> add*
  37 2012-07-31T11:47:54  <ThomasWaldmann> http://codereview.appspot.com/6441063 ah, that was the CR where i also commented on it
  38 2012-07-31T11:48:57  <spy> yes :)
  39 2012-07-31T11:52:33  <ThomasWaldmann> spy: https://bitbucket.org/thomaswaldmann/moin-2.0/pull-request/56/fix-broken-blog-and-blog_entry-views-add is that complete or is there some file / stuff missing?
  40 2012-07-31T11:57:10  <spy> ThomasWaldmann: it is complete, tested on fresh clone
  41 2012-07-31T12:00:29  <spy> btw, mediawiki has an advanced search options where you can tick those namespaces you want to search in. Since we don't have namespaces we can also offer the search based on itemtypes.
  42 2012-07-31T12:02:16  <ThomasWaldmann> we may have namespaces in the near future, there is some code in namespaces branch
  43 2012-07-31T12:03:17  <ThomasWaldmann> but such stuff is basically just adding namespace:foo as a search term. mostly a question of ui.
  44 2012-07-31T12:08:20  <ThomasWaldmann> one can't create blog items yet in some assisted way, right?
  45 2012-07-31T12:09:53  <ThomasWaldmann> spy:
  46 2012-07-31T12:10:17  <CIA-54> Pavel Sviderski <pavel@psviderski.name> default * 1462:20ff5996c3a6 2.0/MoinMoin/templates/blog_layout.html: Fix broken +blog and +blog_entry views.
  47 2012-07-31T12:10:18  <CIA-54> Pavel Sviderski <pavel@psviderski.name> default * 1463:fc55b35066ee 2.0/MoinMoin/ (constants/forms.py forms.py templates/forms.html): Add DateTime widget for the metadata editor.
  48 2012-07-31T12:10:18  <CIA-54> Pavel Sviderski <pavel@psviderski.name> default * 1464:89a6cda81ffe 2.0/MoinMoin/forms.py: pep8 minor fix
  49 2012-07-31T12:11:09  <spy> ThomasWaldmann: yes
  50 2012-07-31T12:13:52  <spy> I think that search in subitems could be performed only from the item page (from header search). It is very sloppy to choose the item you want to search in on a global +search view. So we can add +search/<item_name> way to search in subitems. Where and how to call this search is up to UI (templates).
  51 2012-07-31T12:15:06  <ThomasWaldmann> yes. just make sure users know what they are doing. :)
  52 2012-07-31T12:16:39  * ThomasWaldmann away for 30 mins, continuing with review later
  53 2012-07-31T12:16:52  <spy> maybe ask Jaiditya about the better way how to organize search widget
  54 2012-07-31T12:25:58  <spy> there is still a question about transcluded items. Search can be performed in the given hierarchy/in the given hierarchy+transcluded items. Do I have to provide the GET option transcluded=yes to control that behaviour? Another way is to search in transclusions by default.
  55 2012-07-31T13:08:59  <ThomasWaldmann> in fact, it is also a question what exactly we put into index when indexing an item. did you try?
  56 2012-07-31T13:09:02  <ThomasWaldmann> spy: ^
  57 2012-07-31T13:54:20  <ThomasWaldmann> spy: that "rebased metadata editor" - what exactly did you do to generate this?
  58 2012-07-31T13:55:40  <ThomasWaldmann> i mean, if we already reviewed that stuff and you just pulled it and changed order through rebasing, what's the point of reviewing it again?
  59 2012-07-31T13:56:46  * ThomasWaldmann means http://codereview.appspot.com/6447057
  60 2012-07-31T13:58:46  <ThomasWaldmann> spy: and you did not rebase stuff you already published / someone has pulled from you, right?
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  65 2012-07-31T15:02:38  <dreimark> bbl
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  67 2012-07-31T15:33:03  <MaikuMori> ThomasWaldmann: I've tried to move plugin loading to config but it just causes chain reaction of other problems
  68 2012-07-31T15:35:54  <MaikuMori> I still stand by that core code should read config and then initiate stuff, set options, etc instead of doing that in config it self. Thay way the start up would be something simple like: Read config -> Load plugins with settings -> Initiate other stuff based on config.
  69 2012-07-31T15:37:31  <MaikuMori> As for mappings right now I'm playing around with idea that config provides function which calls create_mappings and this function is then executed in create_app
  70 2012-07-31T15:38:03  <MaikuMori> Just not sure how to handle the parameters in a reasonable way
  71 2012-07-31T16:02:21  <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: dreimark: what is the log bot #moin-dev uses? where can i find out more about it??
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  73 2012-07-31T16:16:22  <MaikuMori> ThomasWaldmann: worked around the parameter issue, how about something like this: http://codereview.appspot.com/6449054/
  74 2012-07-31T16:16:44  <MaikuMori> dreimark: ^ also the CR are in my project wiki page now
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  79 2012-07-31T17:52:27  <ThomasWaldmann> MaikuMori: that config idea you are proposing causes quite some inflexibility, more complicated names of settings and much more complicated processing of these settings
  80 2012-07-31T17:53:18  <ThomasWaldmann> (the idea of having a simple key = value text config is not quite new, we already thought about that)
  81 2012-07-31T17:54:10  <ThomasWaldmann> so, that would also cause a chain reaction of other problems
  82 2012-07-31T18:02:00  <ThomasWaldmann> btw, i didn't see you asking about the problems you encountered when trying my suggestion
  83 2012-07-31T18:02:09  <ThomasWaldmann> so, what was it?
  84 2012-07-31T18:02:23  <ThomasWaldmann> xiaq: it is supybot
  85 2012-07-31T18:12:46  <xiaq> ThomasWaldmann: thx :)
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  89 2012-07-31T19:33:49  <jaiditya> A whole day power cut....n now just 1hr power supply to refill water resources...current day status :(
  90 2012-07-31T19:41:57  <spy> ThomasWaldmann: I didn't pull the metaeditor stuff. After itemtype was pulled I have to rewrite it almost from scratch. And still there is no consensus about it with xiaq.
  91 2012-07-31T19:57:13  <ThomasWaldmann> jaiditya: laptop + batteries? :)
  92 2012-07-31T19:57:42  <ThomasWaldmann> or just go to a place with power?
  93 2012-07-31T19:58:01  <jaiditya> power cut of almost 8 states
  94 2012-07-31T19:58:15  <ThomasWaldmann> oh, oops
  95 2012-07-31T19:58:39  <ThomasWaldmann> why is that?
  96 2012-07-31T19:59:29  <ThomasWaldmann> spy: and don't see xiaq and you wildly discussing, so if there is no consensus yet, it won't come that way
  97 2012-07-31T19:59:46  <jaiditya> due to grid failure
  98 2012-07-31T20:00:33  <jaiditya> multiple grid failure
  99 2012-07-31T20:00:38  <ThomasWaldmann> http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/31/india-blackout-delhi-northern-power-idINDEE86U05C20120731
 100 2012-07-31T20:02:13  <jaiditya> had a complete cutoff from outer world as both cellphone's and laptop's battery exhausted
 101 2012-07-31T20:03:01  <ThomasWaldmann> some modern laptops could be powered by a not-too-big solar panel
 102 2012-07-31T20:04:44  <jaiditya> ahh...soon will need one
 103 2012-07-31T20:05:07  <jaiditya> if the scenario continues like this
 104 2012-07-31T20:05:51  <ThomasWaldmann> my old one consumes about 10W in normal operation, more modern ones sometimes are even below AND more powerful cpu.
 105 2012-07-31T20:07:00  <jaiditya> A power failure in 2001 caused a loss of Rs 50,000,000 to the government and this one is even bigger
 106 2012-07-31T20:07:28  <jaiditya> 1 million USD
 107 2012-07-31T20:08:05  <jaiditya> all trains were stopped for a day
 108 2012-07-31T20:08:21  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe if everybody turns off the air conditioning and avoids cooking, it would work again
 109 2012-07-31T20:09:03  <jaiditya> In India we use LPG for cooking
 110 2012-07-31T20:09:31  <jaiditya> we are still developing
 111 2012-07-31T20:10:47  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe depends on the area? or do you think everybody uses lpg?
 112 2012-07-31T20:11:13  <jaiditya> Almost everybody
 113 2012-07-31T20:12:20  <ThomasWaldmann> interesting, didn't know that. here it is mixed gas (sometimes older installations) or electric
 114 2012-07-31T20:13:51  <jaiditya> But still I realized how much we are dependent on electricity
 115 2012-07-31T20:14:18  <ThomasWaldmann> not much IT without power...
 116 2012-07-31T20:14:35  <ThomasWaldmann> you can take a pencil and a paper and think about stuff
 117 2012-07-31T20:15:11  <jaiditya> thats interesting
 118 2012-07-31T20:15:30  <jaiditya> more physical work
 119 2012-07-31T20:16:37  <jaiditya> that would be back to the time when electricity was not invented
 120 2012-07-31T20:17:36  <ThomasWaldmann> i guess if i were in india with lots of solar power and grid outages, i would really have a panel ready :)
 121 2012-07-31T20:18:08  <ThomasWaldmann> in germany it usually is not that sunny and grid is mostly stable
 122 2012-07-31T20:18:21  <jaiditya> haha...
 123 2012-07-31T20:18:47  <jaiditya> During my school I made a small working model of Bio-gas plant which uses animal-dung as its fuel
 124 2012-07-31T20:18:49  <ThomasWaldmann> you get 1kW/m2 for free :D
 125 2012-07-31T20:19:33  <ThomasWaldmann> considering effectivity of panel + converters etc. this is maybe 100-150W / m2
 126 2012-07-31T20:21:14  <jaiditya> I think I should have a small panel too as sunlight is mostly what we get here
 127 2012-07-31T20:21:37  <ThomasWaldmann> in germany, there was a big solar panel boom in the last years. it would make so much more sense in countries with more sun.
 128 2012-07-31T20:22:48  <jaiditya> A friend of mine has worked on a car that is solar power...
 129 2012-07-31T20:23:33  <jaiditya> I'd take his help and try to convert my laptop into solar powered one
 130 2012-07-31T20:24:03  <jaiditya> donno is it fisible or not
 131 2012-07-31T20:24:06  <ThomasWaldmann> well, if you have the panels ON the car, they likely won't give enough power.
 132 2012-07-31T20:25:06  <jaiditya> as far as I have seen it panels are On the car
 133 2012-07-31T20:25:24  <ThomasWaldmann> cars = x .. xxx kW, laptops = x .. xxx W
 134 2012-07-31T20:26:27  <jaiditya> and car runs well
 135 2012-07-31T20:26:45  <ThomasWaldmann> does he have a web page? /me has doubts :)
 136 2012-07-31T20:27:13  <jaiditya> no he is a mechanical engineer,
 137 2012-07-31T20:27:31  <jaiditya> a hardcore mechanical engineer
 138 2012-07-31T20:28:03  <jaiditya> but I'll ask him for details
 139 2012-07-31T20:29:28  <jaiditya> which might answer your questions
 140 2012-07-31T20:29:35  * ThomasWaldmann drives a toyota prius (and I like that car). there is a newer model variant that has a solar roof option, but IMHO that's a expensive joke.
 141 2012-07-31T20:30:47  <ThomasWaldmann> and quite easily to proof by just calculating the power that panel can produce vs. power consumed by car.
 142 2012-07-31T20:31:16  <ThomasWaldmann> you could operate a fan with it, maybe, to have a bit of ventilation. :D
 143 2012-07-31T20:31:49  <jaiditya> they prepared it for a competition and as they were representing their college so all expense were beared by college
 144 2012-07-31T20:31:53  <jaiditya> haha
 145 2012-07-31T20:32:02  * ThomasWaldmann brb in 30mins
 146 2012-07-31T20:32:31  <jaiditya> I hope we have power till then.. :D
 147 2012-07-31T20:32:46  <ThomasWaldmann> I think one could do it, but car would have to be very light, very uncomfortable, slow, low range, etc.
 148 2012-07-31T20:36:07  <jaiditya> yeah it was ugly, uncomfortable and obviously not a fast car
 149 2012-07-31T20:40:32  <MaikuMori> ThomasWaldmann: could you take a quick peek at the last patch set for storage
 150 2012-07-31T20:50:00  <ThomasWaldmann> MaikuMori: seen your mentor recently?
 151 2012-07-31T20:52:24  <ThomasWaldmann> http://codereview.appspot.com/6449054/ that one?
 152 2012-07-31T21:00:14  <MaikuMori> ThomasWaldmann: haven't seen him since the meeting I organized
 153 2012-07-31T21:00:42  <MaikuMori> ThomasWaldmann:  yes, that one
 154 2012-07-31T21:02:40  <ThomasWaldmann> you both should talk more :)
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 156 2012-07-31T21:12:36  <spy> ThomasWaldmann: why it is used lowercase for 'template' constants?  template = 'modify_binary.html', delete_template = 'delete.html' and so on
 157 2012-07-31T21:16:18  <ThomasWaldmann> well, no special reason
 158 2012-07-31T21:16:50  <ThomasWaldmann> as it is overwritten by subclasses, the attribute is globally not constant though
 159 2012-07-31T21:22:59  <spy> well, what do you think about template=xxx on BaseMetaForm? http://codereview.appspot.com/6447057/diff/10001/MoinMoin/items/__init__.py (comments)
 160 2012-07-31T21:34:32  <ThomasWaldmann> MaikuMori: review done
 161 2012-07-31T21:39:12  <ThomasWaldmann> MaikuMori: another review done
 162 2012-07-31T21:43:29  <ThomasWaldmann> spy: commented there
 163 2012-07-31T21:43:57  <ThomasWaldmann> i didn't look at it deeply, though
 164 2012-07-31T21:47:29  <RogerHaase> ThomasWaldman:  fix for transcluded csv items and a items ready for review:  http://codereview.appspot.com/6427059/
 165 2012-07-31T21:48:10  <RogerHaase> ThomasWaldmann: a test page for above:  http://www.digitalrockart.org/moin2/TestAllTranscludableItems
 166 2012-07-31T21:55:46  <spy> ThomasWaldmann: you asked what we put into index. This is the set for LATEST_REVS: set(['itemid', 'contenttype', 'name', 'name_exact', 'tags', 'wikiname', 'itemlinks', 'mtime', 'revid', 'parentid', 'content', 'itemtransclusions', 'address', 'action', 'size'])
 167 2012-07-31T21:55:56  <spy> ALL_REVS: set(['itemid', 'contenttype', 'name', 'name_exact', 'tags', 'wikiname', 'address', 'revid', 'parentid', 'content', 'mtime', 'action', 'size'])
 168 2012-07-31T22:01:32  <ThomasWaldmann> spy: that referred to indexed content
 169 2012-07-31T22:01:42  <ThomasWaldmann> data, not meta
 170 2012-07-31T22:07:03  <spy> so, what is the question? what should I try to do?
 171 2012-07-31T22:25:24  <ThomasWaldmann> well, searching transcluded items is mostly interesting to find contents of them, right?
 172 2012-07-31T22:26:12  <ThomasWaldmann> and in case the indexer includes that, you don't need to do it again
 173 2012-07-31T22:26:23  <ThomasWaldmann> not sure if it does, but could be :)
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 177 2012-07-31T22:42:53  <dreimark> re
 178 2012-07-31T22:43:05  <grzywacz> re ;)
 179 2012-07-31T22:43:12  <spy> ThomasWaldmann: for each item the indexer store the names of transcluded items. Then I want to gather all names that transcluded into the given hierarchy. Moreover those transcluded items are able to have transclusions too. And that is why I need the rucursive function to obtain the set of all these items. Not sure that could be done other way.
 180 2012-07-31T22:44:46  <ThomasWaldmann> hi grzywacz :)
 181 2012-07-31T22:45:22  <ThomasWaldmann> spy: if the indexer already expands while indexing, you don't have to do that also.
 182 2012-07-31T22:45:43  <grzywacz> hey ThomasWaldmann, long time no see
 183 2012-07-31T22:47:55  <spy> ThomasWaldmann: don't understand what you mean :(
 184 2012-07-31T22:48:18  <ThomasWaldmann> spy: if you look at the page, you see all. the page, the transclusions, right?
 185 2012-07-31T22:49:27  <spy> yes
 186 2012-07-31T22:51:20  <ThomasWaldmann> so, if the indexer puts all that into the index for that item, you don't need to search the transclusions
 187 2012-07-31T22:51:47  <ThomasWaldmann> grzywacz: currently doing GSOC mentoring :)
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 189 2012-07-31T22:52:02  <grzywacz> I can see that.
 190 2012-07-31T22:52:05  <grzywacz> :)
 191 2012-07-31T22:53:15  <spy> I doubt that the index stores those transclusions
 192 2012-07-31T22:53:24  <ThomasWaldmann> grzywacz: seen moin2 recently?
 193 2012-07-31T22:53:39  <grzywacz> nope, the last time I looked it was at some very early stage
 194 2012-07-31T22:53:39  * spy looks at the indexer stored data
 195 2012-07-31T22:54:20  <dreimark> wb grzywacz
 196 2012-07-31T22:56:18  <dreimark> grzywacz: http://vps.psviderski.name:8080/+blog/myblog this is what spy works on :)
 197 2012-07-31T23:00:31  <grzywacz> dreimark, not sure what it is that I'm looking at 8)
 198 2012-07-31T23:03:02  <dreimark> moin2 with a blog feature
 199 2012-07-31T23:03:47  <dreimark> the theming stuff is also refactored by a student but not yet merged back
 200 2012-07-31T23:05:08  <spy> ThomasWaldmann: unfortunately the indexer doesn't store the content of trancleded items. it just dropes all those {{ XXX }}. Look: http://vps.psviderski.name:8080/%2Bmodify/Home  there is 'content': u'Home page\n\n\n\n\ntext below' in the indexer.
 201 2012-07-31T23:05:53  <spy> s/trancleded/transcluded
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 203 2012-07-31T23:09:32  <ThomasWaldmann> http://vps.psviderski.name:8080/+indexable/Home < spy
 204 2012-07-31T23:09:55  <ThomasWaldmann> hmm, looks like a bug.
 205 2012-07-31T23:10:14  <spy> So, this is obviously. It is very expensive to rebuild every item's index that include some other after its modification.
 206 2012-07-31T23:10:42  <spy> hm..
 207 2012-07-31T23:11:16  <ThomasWaldmann> guess one would have to look at the index update code :)
 208 2012-07-31T23:11:43  <ThomasWaldmann> i remember being a bit undecided about this
 209 2012-07-31T23:17:56  <spy> ThomasWaldmann: +indexable view shows what excatly the indexer must contain, right?
 210 2012-07-31T23:20:04  <ThomasWaldmann>             # We do not convert smileys, includes, macros, links, because
 211 2012-07-31T23:20:05  <ThomasWaldmann>             # it does not improve search results or even makes results worse.
 212 2012-07-31T23:20:17  <ThomasWaldmann> def convert_to_indexable(meta, data, is_new=False):
 213 2012-07-31T23:20:21  <ThomasWaldmann> see there ^
 214 2012-07-31T23:21:40  <ThomasWaldmann> it would be possible to include transclusions, but then some content present on transcluded page TP would not only get found there, but also on all pages that transclude TP...
 215 2012-07-31T23:22:34  <ThomasWaldmann> thus, i did not implement that. once one has found the TP page, one can find all pages that transclude it by searching again (if one really wants to know)
 216 2012-07-31T23:34:54  <spy> it is the case of the global search. But in the case of the blog search it might be useful to see transcluded items. For example it would be useful when blog posts are mostly mirror (transclude) other wiki pages.
 217 2012-07-31T23:36:25  <spy> so, we should have already two checkboxes: [x] this item and subitems; [x] expand transcluded items
 218 2012-07-31T23:36:49  <spy> overkill? :)
 219 2012-07-31T23:46:39  <ThomasWaldmann> could be a general option for search
 220 2012-07-31T23:47:25  <spy> ok
 221 2012-07-31T23:47:32  <ThomasWaldmann> hmm
 222 2012-07-31T23:47:39  <ThomasWaldmann> it can't work
 223 2012-07-31T23:48:02  <ThomasWaldmann> imagine you have foo on mainpage and bar on transcludedpage
 224 2012-07-31T23:48:13  <ThomasWaldmann> now you search for "foo AND bar"...
 225 2012-07-31T23:48:59  <ThomasWaldmann> such stuff would only work if we expand at indexing time (and we currently don't)
 226 2012-07-31T23:50:24  <spy> well, 'expand' is wrong name, just [x] transcluded itemes
 227 2012-07-31T23:52:39  <spy> alse we can create another expanded_content field in the index
 228 2012-07-31T23:52:57  <ThomasWaldmann> well, as i said, at query time it will only work if all search terms match on the single item
 229 2012-07-31T23:53:38  <ThomasWaldmann> maybe you just ignore that for now, it is a general issue and not blog specific
 230 2012-07-31T23:55:41  <spy> Yet, what state do I have to leave the header search implementation for blog?

MoinMoin: MoinMoinChat/Logs/moin-dev/2012-07-31 (last edited 2012-07-30 22:45:03 by IrcLogImporter)